Versacopter V2 build, motors spinning down

[Wearyman]

So, I got a Versacopter 2 with the standard E-Pack for my Birthday back in August. Started building it but got sidetracked with life for awhile right about at the FC (Naze 32 rev6) programming stage. Recently I've come back to it, reviewed my build, finished programming the FC, and got it all buttoned up and done with a nice little FrSky 8 channel diversity mini receiver. Ran through the final config settings, following the build video step by step right down the line. (great video series, BTW. Nice job Flite Test!)

Everything seems perfect, except...

When I power it up and flip the ARM switch to do a prop-less bench test, one of the motors (and it changes each time) will randomly just slow down to a stop and then not restart until I drop the throttle to 0 and then bring it back up. I've tried a couple different batteries, from a 2100 3s Eflite (my favorite plane batteries. tough and very stable, although with a low-ish C rating of 25) to a 3300 3S 35c RMRC "Orange" battery and even my monster 5000 3s 65c Nanotech (which I could never actually fly with anyway) and every time the same thing happens.

Note that it does seem to behave better with Horizon mode engaged, which seems strange to me, but there it is.

Honestly I thought it was a power issue, IE: Voltage sag causing one or more of the ESCs to shut down. But I have tried with really powerful batteries and even with a "Y" Parallel adapter to hook two of the RMRC Orange batteries together to double the C rating and available charge (not the voltage, just the available power) and still the same behavior.

So, am I doing something wrong? I have configured the Naze 32 exactly as the video recommended, right down to the last PID setting, and this keeps happening. I certainly can't fly it like this, as it would just drop out of the sky, or flip over on takeoff. Is it just a "bench behavior" and I can trust it to fly, or should I be looking deeper?

Just a bit confused right now. and looking for advice.

 

[PsyBorg]

That is normal. Sometimes one or more motors will spin faster and faster too.

What you are seeing is the FC trying to compensate for level and the changes are happening because the quad is not responding so it is "Hunting" to find what will make it level according to its sensors.

Try picking it up off the table you will notice it tries to change still but since you are not perfectly stable or capable to hold it level it will still correct but not stop or over rev the motors. This behavior is more extreme in any of the auto leveling states.

Now that said.. if you pick it up and the motors still come to a stop or keep over revving then you need to check a few things.

 

[Wearyman]

I'm beginning to think something else is wrong here. I've tried to maiden it and when in Auto-level or normal mode it is uncontrollable. It either immediately flips over and crashes (I've checked my motor rotation AND prop direction already, these are all correct.) Or, when in auto-level mode it does this 'circular waggle" thing where each motor dips in turn and the whole thing just waggles around until it flips over or noses in. I made a quick and dirty video to show what is happening:

 

[ElectriSean]

I would try going back to the default PID settings, if you don't remember them you can just re-flash and reconfigure the board as per the video without changing them.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Classic toilet bowl wobble. Re-set to the default PIDs or cut P gain on pitch and roll by half.

You have grass. Use it while you can.

Put a dinner plate out in the lawn. Set the copter on it. Pop the copter up at least 2 ft before you try to hover. This will get your copter up out of the prop wash. Part of your problem is that you are flying in VERY unstable air. This way, if you pop it up 6 or 7 ft you can still crash land out in the lawn and not on that concrete patio.

Always tune in acro mode. If your copter wobbles in acro mode, horizon will most often be much worse.

It takes most people 2-3 weeks and a bag of props to learn to fly. Once you 'get it' it's like riding a bike. Until then, expect bruises.

 

[Wearyman]

Classic toilet bowl wobble. Re-set to the default PIDs or cut P gain on pitch and roll by half.

You have grass. Use it while you can.

Put a dinner plate out in the lawn. Set the copter on it. Pop the copter up at least 2 ft before you try to hover. This will get your copter up out of the prop wash. Part of your problem is that you are flying in VERY unstable air. This way, if you pop it up 6 or 7 ft you can still crash land out in the lawn and not on that concrete patio.

Always tune in acro mode. If your copter wobbles in acro mode, horizon will most often be much worse.

It takes most people 2-3 weeks and a bag of props to learn to fly. Once you 'get it' it's like riding a bike. Until then, expect bruises.

Ok, I'll reset the PIDs and re-calibrate. I'm more used to flying a large Tricopter, not a small quad. Tri's fly VERY differently and have different issues then quads do. I honestly wasn't sure what was going on.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

This video does a great job demonstrating the motor spin down issue.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Classic toilet bowl wobble. Re-set to the default PIDs or cut P gain on pitch and roll by half.

You have grass. Use it while you can.

Put a dinner plate out in the lawn. Set the copter on it. Pop the copter up at least 2 ft before you try to hover. This will get your copter up out of the prop wash. Part of your problem is that you are flying in VERY unstable air. This way, if you pop it up 6 or 7 ft you can still crash land out in the lawn and not on that concrete patio.

Always tune in acro mode. If your copter wobbles in acro mode, horizon will most often be much worse.

It takes most people 2-3 weeks and a bag of props to learn to fly. Once you 'get it' it's like riding a bike. Until then, expect bruises.

Great advice...

Someone should nominate you to be a mentor.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Ok, I'll reset the PIDs and re-calibrate. I'm more used to flying a large Tricopter, not a small quad. Tri's fly VERY differently and have different issues then quads do. I honestly wasn't sure what was going on.

I also fly a mini tricopter. Mustang just delivered new, orange landing gear and I need to replace another stripped out servo horn. Tricopters are for madmen!

Going from a tricopter to a quad and back wasn't as much change for me as going from 450mm frames to 250mm and under. The little racers are much faster and twitchier. I use a ton of expo.


Thanks for the green badge there FM. It totally made my day.

 

[Wearyman]

Just to update this thread, I NEVER got it to work. After fighting with it for another week I gave up and shelved it. It sat all winter and now that it is spring I'm trying again to get it working, only now with the latest version of Cleanflight the tutorial video is WAY off and NOTHING WORKS AT ALL.

I'm about to just bin $300 worth of Versacopter if I can't get this damned thing airborne. Has anyone had any better luck with other controller boards? I am on my very last microgram of patience with this thing.

 

[Wearyman]

Update

Just to update this thread, I NEVER got it to work. After fighting with it for another week I gave up and shelved it. It sat all winter and now that it is spring I'm trying again to get it working, only now with the latest version of Cleanflight the tutorial video is WAY off and NOTHING WORKS AT ALL.

I'm about to just bin $300 worth of Versacopter if I can't get this damned thing airborne. Has anyone had any better luck with other controller boards? I am on my very last microgram of patience with this thing.

Ok, so I feel like I should expound a bit more on what is happening:

After messing with the PID settings and tweaking this and that and not getting anywhere last fall I shelved the Versacopter and stepped away from RC for a bit. Then I "went back to my roots" and did some fixed wing building. Now I'm back to try the Versacopter again, but I know I was going nowhere with the old setup. So I updated to the latest version of Cleanflight, (2.0.3) and reflashed my Naze32 Rev6 with the very latest version of stable Naze, 2.0.2. I flashed that and then attempted to continue the setup as per Josh's instructions. Unfortunately they are VERY out of date and don't really work at all with the latest version.

So here is where I am now: I have a stock 2.0.2 setup. No config whatsoever. The RC receiver is bound to my TX. I have no FPV gear mounted at all, taking the K.I.S.S approach to the setup.

The motors will not spin at all except once I hit "save and reboot". THEN they spin up to 50% throttle and just stay there until I unplug the battery. I am entirely unable to program the ESCs using the stock setup. Something has changed, but I do not know what.

Is there a fresh version of a step by step setup video for the latest version of the Naze board firmware? I am lost in the woods here and desperately need help.

Note that I have no interest in racing, or zipping around trees or any of that. I bought the Versacopter for it's compact size, not for it's performance envelope. It's going to be nothing more than a slow flying FPV camera ship for me, so I do not need a "fast" programming setup. Just the opposite in fact, I basically want a "Versa-Phantom". So I am going for SUPER sedate and SUPER controlled. The duller and more restrained and sedate I can make it, the happier I will be. As such, it may be that the Naze is the wrong board for that. If so I am open to suggestions for alternate boards. Should I be looking at a Micro-Vector, or can I make the Naze do what I want, and just be a nice casual slow flying easy-going cruiser?

Thanks again for any help anyone can offer.

 

[PsyBorg]

Where in western New York do you live mate? I am just over the hill from Geneseo where the state college is. I do not have a car but if you are not to far and would not mind a drive Id be more then willing to let you bring your stuff over some day so we can walk thru step by step and get you in the air.

 

[Wearyman]

Where in western New York do you live mate? I am just over the hill from Geneseo where the state college is. I do not have a car but if you are not to far and would not mind a drive Id be more then willing to let you bring your stuff over some day so we can walk thru step by step and get you in the air.

I appreciate the offer. I'm about an hour away, close to Buffalo. Although I have to admit I'm a bit mad at the thing for "beating" me. I want to have my revenge on it by making it fly myself, so I'm mostly looking for guidance right now. I feel like I'm close to getting it, I'm just missing something and I don't know what it is.

Maybe what I need is a new and updated guide of some kind. That way I can educate myself on the process and understand it better.

 

[PsyBorg]

The process Josh does is still correct. Just some of the fine tuning will be different with the changes in Clean flight. It all still talks the same and requires the same basic set ups. I can write up a step by step process for you to follow in order and pm you with it sometime tomorrow if that will help.

After that if it helps and I run it by a few others I may post it as an article at some point. I been meaning to do a few articles for starting at the beginning and add in hints to what I do to set things up as well as ways to work that lessen the chances for mistakes.

 

[Wearyman]

Psy, that would be AMAZING!

But no need to PM it, feel free to just post it here in this thread. I'd rather the back-and forth be public, so we can not just share the results, but the process with everyone. I will do my best to be an attentive student, if you will be patient with my occasional denseness. Perhaps some of my struggles can assist other new users and we can help spread knowledge together.

 

[ElectriSean]

The main problem with the Naze is that it's really old, so most of the setup guides that you find based on it are also really old The firmware development never stops, so the guides are pretty out of date. Luckily, the naze isn't really unique in any way, so searching youtube for basic cleanflight setup (or even better, basic betaflight setup) will probably yield much better results.

I've been thinking of writing some articles myself on basic setup, just have to find the time. Then there is the time involved in keeping it up to date...

 

[Wearyman]

Well, worst case scenario I am open to trying new boards. I'm not rich, but not poor either and I have a small amount of $ to throw at it. That said, I would prefer to conquer it the learning way rather than just throwing money at it, just as a matter of principle.

 

[PsyBorg]

Well I think you are in the right mindset mate. Swapping the FC if the problem is set up will only carry over the same frustration to a new FC. Yes the Naze is old and not going to be supported long but it does work and for what you want to do with the Versacopter will work fine for the life of the craft. I will work on the step by step and get it to you tomorrow.

 

[Wearyman]

Nothing wrong with using older boards too. Heck I still have a perfectly good KK board still in use in one of my planes as a stabilizer.

 

[PsyBorg]

Almost done the write up expect to see a pm here shortly mate.

Scratch that I posted it here...

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?34797-Psyborgs-Set-Up-Process-for-Quad-Copters&p=347460#post347460