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  1. #21
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
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    Looked great for a short while.

    it seems that it was definitely tail heavy. On my prototype I had a large amount of lead ballast on the nose before it would fly properly.

    Another possible solution for you could be the reduction of foreplane incidence angle to reduce the nose lifting forces and thereby send the CG balance point required closer to the main wing.

    Sorry for the delay in response but I have been busy building yet another project

  2. #22
    Skill Collector rockyboy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips - I've had this hanging up in the shop for a bit as I've been distracted with other projects too

    I'm thinking to get it modified and back in the air in a couple weeks though - before the weather turns here.
    I want YOU to join us in the 2018 Flite Test Forum WWII Design/Build Challenge!

    My hanger listing, build threads, conversion projects, and Taranis radio mods are Over Here....

  3. #23
    Daemon1954's Avatar
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    Hm? interesting, I might give this a shot. The flight dynamics would be quite different. Your Canards look kinda small, what are the stall characterisics like?

  4. #24
    Avid Flying Noob FoamyDM's Avatar
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    TTC -wow

    Great job guys! The write-up is well done the build is easy looking ans the final model is something that needs to be watched. I'm curious on tue canard const. And how did it change the flight characteristics.

    I'm trying canards for the first time on a robotech vf-9 scratch build here and will need all all the help/educated/experienced advise i can.
    Current Projects:
    FTFC'18 WWII Projects (Join Us!): Kalinin K-12 | SAM-7 "Sigma" and Maybe the LPL Flying Sub

    Personal:VF-9 (Robotech), FLITE TEST CARD GAME, Anime X1 (Starfox?), Getting my Gremlin(s) Up.

  5. #25
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon1954 View Post
    Hm? interesting, I might give this a shot. The flight dynamics would be quite different. Your Canards look kinda small, what are the stall characterisics like?
    Like all canards it does not really stall in the conventional sense, The foreplane stalls first when the CG is correct and the nose drops causing the plane to gain speed and the stall is over. For the slowest possible landing you will need to land with almost full nose down control input but higher speed landings are possible using no control input by just letting it slow down and settle.

  6. #26
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoamyDM View Post
    Great job guys! The write-up is well done the build is easy looking ans the final model is something that needs to be watched. I'm curious on tue canard const. And how did it change the flight characteristics.

    I'm trying canards for the first time on a robotech vf-9 scratch build here and will need all all the help/educated/experienced advise i can.
    The real secret to a canard is that the front mounted horizontal stabiliser is always loaded in level flight. Level flight is achieved when the wing loading figure on the foreplane is the same as for the main wing. Canards almost always are pusher designs because the prop wash would otherwise upset the balance of lift between the foreplane and the main wing making control impossible.

    This prop wash induced lift differential is what also give rise to tandem wing design instabilities in tractor powered designs.

    Due to the small size and low power of the version shown here there is the possibility of travel limits of the servos limiting your maneuvering but if flown mildly it flys well and gracefully.
    Hopefully making a difference!

  7. #27
    Skill Collector rockyboy's Avatar
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    For an update on my Tiny Canard...

    I was tired of it hanging in my shop, taunting me in the evenings, daring me to figure out why it didn't handle as nice as Hai-Lee's....

    So I took it to FliteFest East with the plan of 'do or die' - I'd either get it flying right with help from people there, or I would declare myself a failure as an RC modeler and cry myself to sleep on the cold muddy ground.

    Before I took the trip I added a front servo and canard flaps (wasn't easily possible to make the whole canard angle adjustable). When I pulled it out at the event, I started with some glide testing by the build tent. Noticed it really wanted to point it's nose to the sky and land on it's prop. So I added a 1/4 oz of lead. And then another 1/4 oz. And then it started to glide rather than crash. So I put it up in the air with my trusty 2s800 pushed way up in the nose, and my goodness! It flew!! I had some trouble keeping it from moving downwind, but by gaining some altitude on the crosswind legs, and diving into the upwind I was able to bring it back to my flying station. Then, just for fun, I had it hover almost perfectly in place and gently brought it down for a vertical landing in wind that was tossing Tubby Cubby's all over the field!!

    My next bit of fun was confirming the ESC could handle a 3s1000 battery, and adding a couple paper streamers for color. Now I can power up the field when I need to, gently float around when I'm feeling stressed, and land on a dime in the wind. Love how it's performing!!

    In fact, I was having so much fun with it, I used it as my main combat flyer - flew in 3 combats, made contact in each one, and was only taken out of the sky by an enemy streamer binding up one of my elevons People loved that it was a Tiny Trainer in a new life, and I think I talked a couple people into trying it with their own Tiny Trainers.

    I have a friend in my local RC club who found a source for thin (2mm) coroplast, and now I'm thinking of making a Tiny Trainer Combat Canard

    In summary, I love the design Hai-Lee! I should have pushed my way through the CG issue a long time ago - my canard angle of attack was just too high for the CG from your plans, so anyone who decides to build one of these should not by worried by the build at all - if it doesn't want to glide, start adding some weight, and you'll end up with a lovely addition to your fleet!
    I want YOU to join us in the 2018 Flite Test Forum WWII Design/Build Challenge!

    My hanger listing, build threads, conversion projects, and Taranis radio mods are Over Here....

  8. #28
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
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    rockyboy, You sir are a legend!

    You problem fighting against the wind is because the vertical fins are a little too small and too close to the CG. The fuselage length is working against them in the wind. The revised version of the wing answers that issue.

    Currently I am developing a a larger span wing of greatly increased wing area, minor dihedral, and symmetrical airfoil for the project. Currently the wing is being test flown on my TT Tailless design with tricycle undercarriage.

    The centre wing section has a span of 1 metre and a cord of 220 mm and sits atop the standard TT fuselage without modification.

    The wing flying speed is less than the original and the landing speeds are a lot slower than the original as well. It has even outlasted the Bixlers at our field in gliding duration and ability to hover in a moderate breeze.

    Your post has given the whole project a boost. Thank You!

    Have fun!

  9. #29
    Skill Collector rockyboy's Avatar
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    Thank you for the inspiration and a super fun design! This was so much fun as a streamer combat ship - I could hover in place and tease people into coming after me, and then drop away to the side or (with the 3s) punch up and start a chase. And with a coroplast instead of foam board, I won't have to worry about causal hanger rash or dew on the field for morning combat sessions.

    And I'm really looking forward to the new tweaks you're working on - I'll get some coroplast ordered and wait to chop into it until you're ready to share the details
    I want YOU to join us in the 2018 Flite Test Forum WWII Design/Build Challenge!

    My hanger listing, build threads, conversion projects, and Taranis radio mods are Over Here....

  10. #30
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
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    The mods details might take a little time as I got a new order for my existing product line, (only one model), and a few other models I have offered. I sell through a local model shop - retail. This is part of my market research and obviously 12 models of the same type in such a small client area is unprecedented in the shops history so it says something for the design. and build quality.

    I finally have won over the shop owner and he seemed eager for the first time ever!

    Anyway that's enough self congratulations and horn blowing.

    Now that you have it flying and I have seen you have the ability to photograph and take videos of your flights I request of you just one thing!

    Document the build, record the flight, and submit it as an article. I gift it to you if you are interested. Should you feel obliged, (though you are not), you could claim it as your own design based on an idea from Hai-Lee, That is not a lie because I do not have access to the same materials you do and the majority of other FT viewers do.

    Any other developments like the alternate wing, or the tricycle undercarriage I will PM directly to you when they are completed for you to add as an addendum after you have evaluated them, (if suitable).

    Thanks again!

    Have fun!

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