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  1. #41
    Site Moderator JimCR120's Avatar
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    Central Maine
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    Wow, thanks for the support guys, especially the comments and links about considerations I'm likely to have. I have a bit of outdoor work to do while the light lingers and then I'll be working on this bad boy looking for the first print (successful print that is).
    Truths in life:
    1) Everything that happens happens for a reason. Luck does not exist.
    2) In this existence we are part of the problem or part of the solution. The choice is ours.
    3) We aren't defined by our circumstances but by our reactions to them. Crisis reveals character.

  2. #42

    Join Date
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    Sandy Eggo, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimCR120 View Post
    Wow, thanks for the support guys, especially the comments and links about considerations I'm likely to have. I have a bit of outdoor work to do while the light lingers and then I'll be working on this bad boy looking for the first print (successful print that is).
    Have fun with the new printer!!!

    And a recommendation for just some fun stuff to print:

    http://thingiverse.com

    https://www.myminifactory.com/
    Hangar:

    Blade Conspiracy 220, Inductrix Pro, FT Sea Duck, FT Duster, FT MiG-3, Versa Wing, ParkZone Archer

    Workbench:

    Possible Crimson Skies plane? We'll see!!

    Retired to a Club Member:

    Blade Glimpse

  3. #43
    Posted a thousand or more times jhitesma's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    The CR10 has a bowden extruder - you can see it mounted on the left side of the frame connected to the hot end with a length of teflon tube.

    Nice thing about bowden extruders is they mean less weight on the gantry so potentially higher accelerations and therefore print speeds.

    But...they can also be trickier to get working well since you have so much filament between the drive gear and the nozzle and that length of plastic acts like a spring. With normal filaments that usually just means a bit more stringing/ooze to deal with and isn't a huge deal. But with softer filaments like Nylon/PETG and especially flexibles can be really tricky.

    On my Folger 2020 i3 I use this extruder with a genuine e3d v6 all metal hot end:
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:825133

    It's listed as a folger extruder but would work on any Prusa derived machine...could probably work on the CR10 as well - though I worry about how the CR10 would do with extra weight moving around given how little support there is in it's structure.

    I added two of my own modifications to that extruder, first I tweaked the idler so it's easier to release for changing filament:
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1427181

    Then I added a mount for my inductive sensor: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1428292 And later modified that to also include a mount for a cooling fan along with the sensor: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1449709

    I'm not 100% happy with this extruder - but it has handled flexible materials just fine since the filament is fully constrained as soon as it leaves the drive gear. Well, it can be. If you look closely at the photos on those mods I did you'll see the teflon tube ends just under the gear...I since swapped it for a very slightly longer one cut into an upside down V so it fits right up there.

    My big complaint about this extruder is the idler. I don't get as consistent results as I did with the all metal mk8 I had swapped my original fogler supplied extruder for. The mk8 worked better than the stock plastic because I was able to adjust the tension on the idler (The stock extruder it wasn't adjustable) and I found that increased tension really gave me great prints. This one does better than the stock folger one did but still not quite as good as the metal one - but there's no way to mate an e3d v6 to the metal one short of going bowden and I didn't want to mess with that.

    I really want to swap to a geared extruder so it will go easier on my extruder motor (which runs hotter than any other stepper on my machine) and hopefully with a better idler so I can give more tension. But...I've yet to find or design a geared extruder that will allow me to mount a cooling fan and my inductive sensor.

    I almost got an e3d titan a week or two ago when filastruder had a big sale with some $50 off discounts. They only had a limited number of discounts though and while I was quick enough to get one when I started my checkout by the time my payment cleared they'd all been used and I got charged full rate and had to cancel the order But it's on my Christmas list so we'll see if my wife surprised me
    Stop in and say hi in the unofficial FT IRC channel!

  4. #44
    Site Moderator JimCR120's Avatar
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    Thanks Jason. I was hoping you'd chime in.

    Oooh a bowden extruder. Now I can repeat something and give the false impression I have a clue.

    I'm seeing some unfamiliar lingo. Please pardon my ignorance and perhaps use of non standard terminology.

    Hot end - I suppose once I fire this up that will become obvious but I'm guessing it's where the nozzle is and the filament flows.
    Idler - Is this the feed mechanism just before the nozzle assembly?

    And another thing, in the grooves of the aluminum framework there is all this rubbery plastic stripping. I don't know if this is for form or function. It seems like it's mostly for looks and there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about it. On the other hand maybe it offers some sort of debris protection or something. They gave my a bundle of blue and a bundle of orange stating I could use either. I'm using both with the orange around potential pinch areas.

    Hopefully soon I'll have enough experience to form some opinions.

    Time to get back at it. Time's a tickin' and I still haven't told it to print nuttin'.
    Truths in life:
    1) Everything that happens happens for a reason. Luck does not exist.
    2) In this existence we are part of the problem or part of the solution. The choice is ours.
    3) We aren't defined by our circumstances but by our reactions to them. Crisis reveals character.

  5. #45
    Posted a thousand or more times jhitesma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimCR120 View Post
    Thanks Jason. I was hoping you'd chime in.

    Oooh a bowden extruder. Now I can repeat something and give the false impression I have a clue.

    I'm seeing some unfamiliar lingo. Please pardon my ignorance and perhaps use of non standard terminology.

    Hot end - I suppose once I fire this up that will become obvious but I'm guessing it's where the nozzle is and the filament flows.
    Idler - Is this the feed mechanism just before the nozzle assembly?
    No problem, terminology here gets confusing. Sometimes people use "Extruder" to refer to the entire assembly - the mechanism that feeds the filament and the part that melts it since on non-bowden setups they're usually combined together into the same assembly. But really they're two separate things so "Extruder" usually refers to the feed mechanism that pushes the filament. The "Idler" is the part that puts tension on the filament pushing it into the drive gear and keeping it from slipping. The "hot end" is the part that actually melts the filament and ends with the nozzle.

    Hot ends are usually built from a few pieces. A throat/heat break which is usually either teflon (PTFE) lined or highly polished metal. A lined heat break tends to be better for lower temp materials but things like Nylon require temps that will melt teflon so you use an all metal throat instead - but those are much harder to manufacture well so they're more expensive. And they can have other issues as well so unless you need the higher temps aren't usually a great idea. The heat break is what separates the hot side from the cold side. So on the cold side you'll have a heat sink to keep it cool, and the hot side is where the heater module is. The nozzle attaches to the hot side and is where your extrusion comes out. Generally you want to have as small of a "melt zone" as possible and as sharp of a heat break as possible so heat won't creep up the filament and cause it to soften prematurely which can cause clogging and other issues.

    E3D have some great info on their blog where they talk about how they developed their V6 hot end and go into quite a bit of detail about all of this: https://e3d-online.com/blog/2014/05/...g-announcement


    And another thing, in the grooves of the aluminum framework there is all this rubbery plastic stripping. I don't know if this is for form or function. It seems like it's mostly for looks and there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about it. On the other hand maybe it offers some sort of debris protection or something. They gave my a bundle of blue and a bundle of orange stating I could use either. I'm using both with the orange around potential pinch areas.
    It's mostly form, but can be used to conceal/contain wires. My bare aluminum extrusion from Folger came with some black strips...but not enough to do everything. I used a few pieces for decoration and a few others to hide wires and clean things up.

    Time to get back at it. Time's a tickin' and I still haven't told it to print nuttin'.
    Looking forward to seeing your first prints!
    Stop in and say hi in the unofficial FT IRC channel!

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Sandy Eggo, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimCR120 View Post
    Thanks Jason. I was hoping you'd chime in.

    Oooh a bowden extruder. Now I can repeat something and give the false impression I have a clue.

    I'm seeing some unfamiliar lingo. Please pardon my ignorance and perhaps use of non standard terminology.

    Hot end - I suppose once I fire this up that will become obvious but I'm guessing it's where the nozzle is and the filament flows.
    Idler - Is this the feed mechanism just before the nozzle assembly?

    And another thing, in the grooves of the aluminum framework there is all this rubbery plastic stripping. I don't know if this is for form or function. It seems like it's mostly for looks and there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about it. On the other hand maybe it offers some sort of debris protection or something. They gave my a bundle of blue and a bundle of orange stating I could use either. I'm using both with the orange around potential pinch areas.

    Hopefully soon I'll have enough experience to form some opinions.

    Time to get back at it. Time's a tickin' and I still haven't told it to print nuttin'.
    Jim, gonna make a recommendation for you on a book that helped me (and subsequently, my father) with a LOT of the basics of 3D printing:

    https://www.amazon.com/Make-Printing...ke+3d+printing

    This is Make Magazine's Essential Guide to 3D Printing. I found it TREMENDOUSLY helpful in explaining things like what a delta printer is, the differences between ABS and PETG and PLA and NinjaFlex, and slicing software vs. modeling software vs. GCode.

    It also gave me a...well, not quite a glossary of terminology, but rudimentary explanations of the basic parts of 3D printers, as well as kind of pointing out some examples of types of 3D printers and pros & cons of each. And for $8.50? I felt it was well worth it!
    Hangar:

    Blade Conspiracy 220, Inductrix Pro, FT Sea Duck, FT Duster, FT MiG-3, Versa Wing, ParkZone Archer

    Workbench:

    Possible Crimson Skies plane? We'll see!!

    Retired to a Club Member:

    Blade Glimpse

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