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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Hai-Lee View Post
    Just one other thing that I forgot tomention on my earlier posts is that having elevons that are easily twisted or somewhat soft and flexible can give poor deflections at maximum speed leading to very poor roll and loop responses as the elevons will tend to flatten out due to the twisting of the control surface. I give mine a good coating in Miniwax or equivalent to stiffen them up.

    have fun!
    Ill have a look at that thanks, although im not doing rolls at speed. The west foamboard im using seems pretty strong, the paper i think is thicker than what other foamboards use.

    I reset everything up. found the original eleveon setup gauge and found that there was a difference between the new one and old i had made, the old one had slightly more angle to it. So used that and found i needed a fair amount of subtrim to get the reflect from the original guage. So its possible the 2nd gauge i made didnt get cut properly.

    I also rechecked the balance inside out of the wind. Adding 15g of weight to the nose which brought it to within 1mm of the 1.75 inch mark.

    I also made new stabilisers rather than glue the old one back on, so i could use the alignment marks.

    I have wingtape coming and also filament tape, Ill make another wing but this time with the paper removed on 1 side to compare the weight difference. And ill also do one with paper removed on both sides and covered with wing tape on the outside. I think this is going to be enough to make this foamboard to work as it should get it to around what ft stuff weighs

  2. #22
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    2,008
    Sounds like a plan.

    I would recommend using a strip of fibre tape alone the LE in case of rough landings!

    have fun!
    Hopefully making a difference!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Hai-Lee View Post
    Sounds like a plan.

    I would recommend using a strip of fibre tape alone the LE in case of rough landings!

    have fun!
    Well, i dont believe it!. Hand launched without a fuss carried on at a nice angle UP! giving me plenty time to get the controls. First flight needs a fair amount of up trim to stop it diving to the ground, but it was way less than before and it flew fine. nice and predictable had to give some aileron trim aswell to stop it slowly banking right.

    Now the confusing thing, the 2nd battery, same aggain it hand launched with ease, but it wanted to clime so i halfed the amount of trim i used, and it was also rolling right again, this time i was almost full left aierlon trim. But flightt characteristics were the same nice and smooth and very calm.

    Roll rate is still a tad slow. Doesnt roll straight but thats probably an elevator trim issue, and/or play in the linkages.

    Need to look at the hinges, 1 elevator mores alot easier than the other, its probably missing the hotglue reinforcment.

    Both flights landing was nice and soft, after getting slow enough just killed the power and help back on the stick to keep it level and it gently sat down. Now that im not fighting with it i can fine tune and move to catch landings. Iw ouldnt say it flies super slow but its slow enough to be able to catch.

    Awesome.

    Ill still build a 2nd one, ive got sheets to use up. I want to also build the FT3D and if removing the paper does the trick ill do that with the FT3D aswell;

    Thanks for the help!

  4. #24
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    2,008
    Sounds like you almost have it beat! Congratulations are in order!

    The change in roll and pitch trim can have a number of tiny causes. Upon landing you need to make sure that the landing did not change the alignment of the winglets. The CG might have changed slightly if the new battery was a different weight or not installed in the exact same location/manner and finally if the new battery has less voltage sag than the first battery your motor/ESC could be delivering more power/thrust as well as a greater torque reaction. A revision of the thrust angle slightly downwards may make the possibility of differing thrust causing trim changes.

    They do fly well and predictably when sorted and I often launch mine at half throttle and watch it fly straight and level from launch height, (until I open the throttle and point it vertical that is).

    Differences in pitch and roll responses can be adjusted by tinkering with mix ratios if you are brave!

    Have fun!
    Hopefully making a difference!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hai-Lee View Post
    Sounds like you almost have it beat! Congratulations are in order!

    The change in roll and pitch trim can have a number of tiny causes. Upon landing you need to make sure that the landing did not change the alignment of the winglets. The CG might have changed slightly if the new battery was a different weight or not installed in the exact same location/manner and finally if the new battery has less voltage sag than the first battery your motor/ESC could be delivering more power/thrust as well as a greater torque reaction. A revision of the thrust angle slightly downwards may make the possibility of differing thrust causing trim changes.

    They do fly well and predictably when sorted and I often launch mine at half throttle and watch it fly straight and level from launch height, (until I open the throttle and point it vertical that is).

    Differences in pitch and roll responses can be adjusted by tinkering with mix ratios if you are brave!

    Have fun!

    Just got my new props (non slowfly props) so hopefully should see some speed increase, i also upped my throttle channel limits. Im using a simonk ESC (it was super cheap) which cant be calibrated. i was running at 120 and increasing to 140 there was definate increase in power, beyond 140 couldnt tell.

    Also got a turnigy 1000mah battery to try. My last flight was just under 5 minutes and saw the battery coming down at 12v resting. pretty decent. Maybe with 1000mah i could see 10 minutes of gently flying. There pretty inexpensive aswell at 5GBP each.

    Ill look into adjusting the mix, i could probably dial back the eleavtor and give more aileron

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hai-Lee View Post
    Sounds like a plan.

    I would recommend using a strip of fibre tape alone the LE in case of rough landings!

    have fun!
    I should have done that today before going out!!!!! I was out testing after moving the CG slightly back and all was going well. Still needed a fair amount of up elevator trim for level flight but it was diving better (looiked like it was maintaining a dive) it also was gliding very well. I cut the power and just let it glide, and glide and lgide, it slowed right down couldnt tell any signs of stalling. it got to the point i thought better put the power on incase it just suddenly drops.

    So i guess teh CG is pretty close.

    unfortunatly during a very tight turn 6 feet of the ground i got orientated pointed down, and when i pulled back to pull up nothing happened and it nose first into the runway at the field.


    This didnt make the wing fold but instead ripped 1 half of the right wing of. Big tear right through the entire wing even spar.... It could be repaired but this would be a weak point and also make it heavier on one side.

    So ive printed of the plans to make V2. this time with the paper removed and wingtape covered on 1 side. this should hopefully make a much stronger and lighter arrow. With the 1000mah battery i was sitting at arond 330g, although it did fly very well and despite the extra weight would fly very comfortable at slow speeds (slower than my yak 55 profile)

    Hopefully by the end of the day ill have a complete model. No damage to the power pod or even the prop which waas standing the back of the plane up (prop facing down and touching runway)

  7. #27
    Just got done doing my 2nd mini arrow.

    i removed both sides of the paper (except for the spar didnt see much point although probably coul dbe an extra 10g saving). Ill get pictures up later but it look really nice! Ive done it in 2 colours, red on top and purple undearneath. didnt follow the build videos so a few hicups but easily fixed.

    One issue i have is my electronics pod seems to be ever so slightly narrower and its a real struggle to get my 1000mah battery in there... heard a crack when i pushed it in which i assume was glue somewhere letting go... Might go over th seams again with the battery inserted and run a strip of filament tape (before inserting the battery) and hopefully the walls of the electrincis pod will just squeeze.

    All ive got left to do is put on the control horns on the elevons and put the vertical stabilisers on.

    Good news is that weight with electronics is 270g!! And thats with the 1000mah battery :-) So say an extra 10g once the verts are on!!!

    So removing both layers of paper and using packing tape with west foamboard will get you to the same weight, its a fair bit of work though but if you use coloured packing tape can look really good :-)

    Ill get it funished up tomorrow and hopefully a flitetest.


    It feels really solid aswell!! theres much less wing flex and im sure that the tape will help prevent tears, although it seems that when i crash it has to be something solid....

  8. #28

    Angry Getting Frustrated!

    So as nice as my arrow looked something must not have been right.

    It was a bit windy today but didnt think it was too much for the arrow to handle. the first hand launch the wing did a roll to upside down as it flew forward, aborted the launch and it bounced of the long grass.

    2nd launch it started to do the roll but then started flying straight and then started climbing???? flew around for a few circles, but it was flying very strange, kept nosing up. dialed in some down trim until i had none and it still trimed. it was flying very unpredicatbly.

    Landed confused, moved the battery back slight. it launched a bit better but it was still wanting to climb but flying a little better. I checked the cg before i left and im pretty sure it was almost spot on with the battery all way forward.

    So decideed just to fly around, it didnt feel very stable but that might have just been wind. was doing figure 8's being carefull to miss the trees when suddenly the arrow was pointed nose down with the bottom facing me. it was only maybe 15 feet up so rather than power it into the ground trying to save it, just chopped the throttle and let it fall. It hit dead on the nose.

    No probolem i though the nose will just be bashed a bit. NO it tore of a wing!!! broke just infront of the hotglue seem between the wing and the electronics cabin!

    Getting really frustrated as it seems that it is not standing up to well to nose impacts at hardly any speed.

  9. #29
    Old and Bold RC PILOT
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    2,008
    Whilst you get the wing sorted out I recommend that you get your piloting skills in tune as I did by building one of these.

    https://www.flitetest.com/articles/tinywing

    I scaled mine up to 800mm Wing span and if flies a treat, glides like a dead pigeon, and is so robust that I still have my very first version and it is going strong without any repairs to date. With chamfered LEs and a line of fibre tape is is my flying tank.

    Use it to get the feeling of various setups and CG points as well as hours of airtime which you can then transfer to your Arrow.

    Remember the Expo and be advised that it does not loop very well but otherwise it is a hoot. So far mine versions have used motors between 100Watt and 250Watt without real issue apart from balance and the higher power versions can climb vertically almost from launch,

    Just a suggestion!

    have fun!
    Hopefully making a difference!

  10. #30
    I dont think its a piloting issue although i havnt flown in over 12 years ive been flying helis for the last years and before these crashes i was flying around doing circles and figure 8's and even stall turns. The first time i put it down to the wind, but the 2nd time doing the same thing has me leading to believe its a problem.

    Maybe a control horn gave way, the first time it happened even pulling up didnt do anything. the 2nd time.... I did notice 1 of my control horns was loose although that could have been from the crash...

    Ill pick up some more foam board and make 3, to make things simpler ill just do the wing in 1 colour and the pod and stabilisers the other. then use filiment tape for reinforcments.

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