Cutting foam sheets... with a needle!

dkj4linux

Elite member
Djk4linux said: "
All is right in my world again… and I am at peace 😉

— David"

Great! It sure helps to have a house full of machines to pick from!:LOL:
Sure does. Possible only when you're retired, live alone, and are your own "interior decorator". It's just an accumulation of fun stuff, gathered over the years, that keeps me off the streets...
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
To follow up on that thought: .. here's how an old man works hard... without really working hard :)

20191113_092317.jpg


Aii within "eyeshot"; .. a darkened room, a movie, Prusa MK2S printing a Pi case, MPCNC "Joe" lasering an MPCNC logo... or cutting earrings for daughter, a Pi 3B+ and CNC.js for control, and Tux to keep an eye on things. Tuckers me out, just thinking about it... maybe I need a nap :rolleyes:
 
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Keno

Well-known member
Been working on my needle cutter to improve its performance as you can see in the picture I incorporated 12mm OD, 10mm grove, 3mm ID "V grove skateboard bearings to guide the needle. I was up to 13K rpms and holding, that is a fast as my motor would turn. I noted a problem of breaking into resonance at around 4 to 5K but this resonance point would obviously vary for each design. If it were to remain at resonance self destruction would follow. I am still making tweaks to its build probably one more print to finalize. Anyway, just a idea to think about.
 

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Edwardchew

Active member
Hey Edwardchew,

Really like the machine you have made and would like to purchase a kit. I joined your facebook group buy I am lost in there--never used facebook and have no idea where to order a kit from or how to navigate in that discussion??? For the flitetest people, could you post the information on how to order a kit here so those that are not part of the facebook world (me) could get a kit.

Thank You,
Chalie
Hi Chalie,

Sorry for the late reply. it can now be ordered here on the webstore www.edwardrc.com. Hope David don't mind bout me posting this link here. :D

And some of the member here will have his Lite KIT knocking at the door in 1-2 days hehe
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
Hi Chalie,

Sorry for the late reply. it can now be ordered here on the webstore www.edwardrc.com. Hope David don't mind bout me posting this link here. :D

And some of the member here will have his Lite KIT knocking at the door in 1-2 days hehe

I don't mind, Edward, sharing your link and information about how to order a kit. I'd thought about doing it myself... but really wasn't sure I could do it right. I'm like Chalie -- and I'm positive there are many others here... FB is simply not my thing, at all. I am trying to keep up over there with what's going on but I find it terribly difficult to navigate the discussion, find all the new posts, etc. FB -- and social media in general -- has no appeal to me (I'm old... and anti-social?) and, outside of helping me keep up with what my kids are up to, I've seen little/no use for it until now, with your FB foam-cutter group,.

Also, like Chalie, I really like your machine and think it'll be a great hit here... once more people become aware of it. As you know I've already ordered mine... I think I'm in that first batch you sent out and expect it to arrive in another day or two. I've already got my extrusion and am currently printing parts...

20191121_215951.jpg


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I hope to get something up and running in the near future, soon after your kit arrives. I also plan to document my progress primarily here... in this thread on the FT forum. But please be aware, I'm probably going to deviate from your "standard build" (especially with the software chain) and I'll choose to be non-participant in the file- and gcode-sharing y'all are doing over on the FB side. I'm still not entirely comfortable with the idea of another non-FT sanctioned PDF repository, processed or not, full of FT's PDF plans... and believe the FT folks would really rather have folks come to their store and be exposed to their kit offerings, and other merchandise, while navigating to the "free plans" section. And, as we've discussed already, I think there'll be enough variation in machine builds and materials to render a gcode repository pretty pointless. But possibly there'll be enough folks building near-identical machines over there... so maybe it'll work for a lot of you.

Please know, Edward, I'm not against what you're working hard to get set up and/or trying to rock the boat... I wish you only success. And I hope my efforts here will expose more people to your machine and result in more orders for you. But a fair number of us, especially those who participate in this thread, simply aren't the kind of folks to be content with just blindly, hurriedly, throwing a machine together without understanding... just so we can start building/flying/crashing planes more quickly than before. There are some like that, of course -- many probably in your FB group -- but, here, most of us like to understand what/why we're doing what we're doing and get as big a kick out of building the machines as we do building and flying the planes the machines help us produce.

And, so you'll know, I think your machine's hardware is pretty solid and seems to work quite well... but I'm really not a fan of being tied to older versions of Grbl, Inkscape, etc. I really think the current Grbl and Inkscape, same as I've been using for a couple of years now, can be made to do the job of handling your servo-driven Z-axis... especially since you're using the same PWM signal and pin (on the CNC shield) for your servo as I'm using to drive the Banggood laser on my daughter's engraver. Also, I really think the layered approach for processing PDFs in Inkscape (post #1447) is far preferable to brute-force deleting lines and making multiple intermediate copies of your design file for each type of cut. I've still got a lot to learn about that method and need to refine an "updated" flow that I can use and recommend but my intent is use current, stock, software as much as possible.

I know this may seem a bunch of stuff to hit you with, all at once, but I've deliberately refrained from saying anything over on your FB group... in order to avoid any confrontation and/or confusion. You have developed a "standard" way of doing things over there... and I suspect that will suffice for most of the folks who are in your FB group. I don't want to upset that. So, I'll document my build and alternative workflow efforts over here so that those of us who prefer the forum can discuss and share ideas as we always have... on a very long-running thread about needle-cutting and CNC machines in general, and where the sharing of ideas has always been encouraged.

Thanks, Edward, for sharing your machine with us. Again, I wish you great success with it and I really do think it's going to be a hit with a bunch of folks here on the FT, and other RC-centric, forums.

-- David
 
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Edwardchew

Active member
I don't mind, Edward, sharing your link and information about how to order a kit. I'd thought about doing it myself... but really wasn't sure I could do it right. I'm like Chalie -- and I'm positive there are many others here... FB is simply not my thing, at all. I am trying to keep up over there with what's going on but I find it terribly difficult to navigate the discussion, find all the new posts, etc. FB -- and social media in general -- has no appeal to me (I'm old... and anti-social?) and, outside of helping me keep up with what my kids are up to, I've seen little/no use for it until now, with your FB foam-cutter group,.

Also, like Chalie, I really like your machine and think it'll be a great hit here... once more people become aware of it. As you know I've already ordered mine... I think I'm in that first batch you sent out and expect it to arrive in another day or two. I've already got my extrusion and am currently printing parts...

View attachment 148700

View attachment 148701

I hope to get something up and running in the near future, soon after your kit arrives. I also plan to document my progress primarily here... in this thread on the FT forum. But please be aware, I'm probably going to deviate from your "standard build" (especially with the software chain) and I'll choose to be non-participant in the file- and gcode-sharing y'all are doing over on the FB side. I'm still not entirely comfortable with the idea of another non-FT sanctioned PDF repository, processed or not, full of FT's PDF plans... and believe the FT folks would really rather have folks come to their store and be exposed to their kit offerings, and other merchandise, while navigating to the "free plans" section. And, as we've discussed already, I think there'll be enough variation in machine builds and materials to render a gcode repository pretty pointless. But possibly there'll be enough folks building near-identical machines over there... so maybe it'll work for a lot of you.

Please know, Edward, I'm not against what you're working hard to get set up and/or trying to rock the boat... I wish you only success. And I hope my efforts here will expose more people to your machine and result in more orders for you. But a fair number of us, especially those who participate in this thread, simply aren't the kind of folks to be content with just blindly, hurriedly, throwing a machine together without understanding... just so we can start building/flying/crashing planes more quickly than before. There are some like that, of course -- many probably in your FB group -- but, here, most of us like to understand what/why we're doing what we're doing and get as big a kick out of building the machines as we do building and flying the planes the machines help us produce.

And, so you'll know, I think your machine's hardware is pretty solid and seems to work quite well... but I'm really not a fan of being tied to older versions of Grbl, Inkscape, etc. I really think the current Grbl and Inkscape, same as I've been using for a couple of years now, can be made to do the job of handling your servo-driven Z-axis... especially since you're using the same PWM signal and pin (on the CNC shield) for your servo as I'm using to drive the Banggood laser on my daughter's engraver. Also, I really think the layered approach for processing PDFs in Inkscape (post #1447) is far preferable to brute-force deleting lines and making multiple intermediate copies of your design file for each type of cut. I've still got a lot to learn about that method and need to refine an "updated" flow that I can use and recommend but my intent is use current, stock, software as much as possible.

I know this may seem a bunch of stuff to hit you with, all at once, but I've deliberately refrained from saying anything over on your FB group... in order to avoid any confrontation and/or confusion. You have developed a "standard" way of doing things over there... and I suspect that will suffice for most of the folks who are in your FB group. I don't want to upset that. So, I'll document my build and alternative workflow efforts over here so that those of us who prefer the forum can discuss and share ideas as we always have... on a very long-running thread about needle-cutting and CNC machines in general, and where the sharing of ideas has always been encouraged.

Thanks, Edward, for sharing your machine with us. Again, I wish you great success with it and I really do think it's going to be a hit with a bunch of folks here on the FT, and other RC-centric, forums.

-- David
Hahahaha sorry bout the use of FB thing.

Yes sure since speaking with Josh so there will be no repository of the svg or gcode, and i have already informed that in the group, but i can't stop others from doing that. so...

I actually tried on your "select same" and "node" feature and that made things soooo much faster, does not need to save different svg anymore, so will need to make an update video on that.

Well i would loveeee to see a different version from you, more brain the better. I'm suck at software so I'm sure you can do even better on that. :D

No issue David. You can share anything in the fb group, everyone is open to new ideas.
 

CMS_1961

CMS_1961
Thanks Edward for the info!!! I will be ordering your kit soon!! I have already printed all the parts for your machine also.

And as David said us "old guys" just get lost in Facebook!! I tried to follow the discussions as well but had no idea how to order the kit. (LOL)

I think you starting a new thread on the forum here will be awesome. Once people realize the capability and cost of your machine I think it will be a hit and will generate lots of discussion.
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
All,

I've been working to document a procedure for taking FT plane plans and turning them into gcode for use with needle-cutters. It's a bit rough yet but there's been enough interest that I've gone ahead and published it in Google docs...

PDF to Gcode for CNC Needle-Cutters

Please let me know if anything is unclear and/or incorrect. This procedure, like several other previous approaches, uses Inkscape layers to separate the different cut-types presented in PDF plans such as those from FliteTest. This procedure, however, uses the popular JTech laser plugin to generate the actual gcode rather than gcodetools, or other.

Attached are a couple of template files that set the appropriate document size, "landscape" orientation (I think this may need to be "portrait" for Edward's TimSav machine), units, and pre-defined layers. These are put in Inkscape's "templates" directory and then loaded in the first step of the procedure. The JTech laser plugin and instructions for installing it are found on JTech's website.

-- David

EDIT: The attached foamboard templates zipfile contains 4 templates: A1-landscape, A1-portrait, DTFB-landscape, and DTFB-portrait. These all use "mm" units. The "portrait" versions will work best for Edward's ERC TimSav machine... with its longer Y-axis than X-axis. Machines with a longer X-axis than Y-axis will be better accommodated with the "landscape" versions.
 

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Airkaos

Member
All,

I've been working to document a procedure for taking FT plane plans and turning them into gcode for use with needle-cutters. It's a bit rough yet but there's been enough interest that I've gone ahead and published it in Google docs...

PDF to Gcode for CNC Needle-Cutters

Please let me know if anything is unclear and/or incorrect. This procedure, like several other previous approaches, uses Inkscape layers to separate the different cut-types presented in PDF plans such as those from FliteTest. This procedure, however, uses the popular JTech laser plugin to generate the actual gcode rather than gcodetools, or other.

Attached are a couple of template files that set the appropriate document size, "landscape" orientation (I think this may need to be "portrait" for Edward's TimSav machine), units, and pre-defined layers. These are put in Inkscape's "templates" directory and then loaded in the first step of the procedure. The JTech laser plugin and instructions for installing it are found on JTech's website.

-- David
Just tried your system, and is a lot easier to do, but I have a question David, how would you join the finished .gcodes??
Also I have not tried it yet, since I don’t have my machine yet, I should be able to get it this afternoon, and see.
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
Just tried your system, and is a lot easier to do, but I have a question David, how would you join the finished .gcodes??
Also I have not tried it yet, since I don’t have my machine yet, I should be able to get it this afternoon, and see.
I think you are asking how to combine the separate gcode files into one file?

If so, you can open a text editor to a new document and simply cut-and-paste the contents of each separate gcode file into the new one. Make sure that SCORE (RED) cuts [and MARKING (BLUE) cuts, if any] are first in the new file... followed by the INSIDE (BLACK1) through-cuts, and last... the OUTSIDE (BLACK2) through-cuts. If you elect to simply run them separately, run them in that same order. Though usually not a problem with foamboard and needle-cutter, this will prevent the possibility of parts moving around as you try to apply marking and score cuts.
 

Airkaos

Member
I think you are asking how to combine the separate gcode files into one file?

If so, you can open a text editor to a new document and simply cut-and-paste the contents of each separate gcode file into the new one. Make sure that SCORE (RED) cuts [and MARKING (BLUE) cuts, if any] are first in the new file... followed by the INSIDE (BLACK1) through-cuts, and last... the OUTSIDE (BLACK2) through-cuts. If you elect to simply run them separately, run them in that same order. Though usually not a problem with foamboard and needle-cutter, this will prevent the possibility of parts moving around as you try to apply marking and score cuts.

Do you think is a good idea to remove the homing code at the end of the gcode? So the cutter keeps cutting instead of going back to home? Or would that just mess up the travel and make the machine go to the wrong place.
 

TomasM

New member
Today I finally had a time to cut the FT Spitfire. It will be my first ft plane. I'm satisfied with a quality of the cut, it's only a little fuzzy on the bottom side. Unfortunately, I didn't check the thickness of my boards, so I have to scale it up a bit and recut in order to get the pieces come together.
 

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dkj4linux

Elite member
I've been trying, mostly unsuccessfully, for a couple of weeks to see how Lightburn might be used to process PDF's and generate gcode for both laser and needle cutter. Tonight I had a bit of success... though it's not the "one-stop", "all-in-one", solution I'm looking for, yet.

If you've looked at my PDF to Gcode for CNC Needle-Cutters, the PDF processing is completed with step #15... and, after that, the JTech laser plugin is used to generate the gcode for each of the cut layers. IF -- after step #15 -- you make the RED and both BLACK layers visible, and all other layers invisible, you can "Save As" a DXF containing only those visible layers. The DXF can then be cleanly imported into Lightburn, which honors the layers (colors), and allows speed and depth information to be entered for each layer. They are then easily arranged in order of cut, previewed, and Grbl/M3 gcode generated for all layers at the same time... i.e. all in one gcode file. It's quicker and easier than generating separate gcode files for each layer and then manually concatenating them all into one file, as in the procedure. The downside is, of course, that you need to have Lightburn installed. Thankfully, you can download and use it UNCRIPPLED for a 30-day trial period and it's available for Windows, Mac, and Linux (It runs beautifully on my Linux boxes) and is quite inexpensive ($40 IIRC).

The PDF processing with Lightburn is hampered by only one thing that I can see... in that there's no easy way to auto-join the dashed line segments; i.e. the score lines of the RED layer. The node editor is less capable than Inkscape's and although an "auto-join" functionality is listed in the menus... I've yet to make it work to join the line segments. Otherwise, my whole procedure could be written to use only the one piece of software, Lightburn, that I (and my daughter) have become very fond of, for use with her laser engraver.

Oh, well... give it time ;)

-- David
 
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TEAJR66

Flite is good
Mentor
Wow, you really put lots of thought and effort into all this Dave. Makes me wish I had more time to dedicate to CNC as a hobby. So many options and routes to explore.
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
Wow, you really put lots of thought and effort into all this Dave. Makes me wish I had more time to dedicate to CNC as a hobby. So many options and routes to explore.
Thanks, Tommy. Being both retired and a widower, I have the time, interest, and just enough energy for this stuff... and interacting with you like-minded guys out on the forum(s) is what keeps me going. I'm trying to stay as "sharp" as I can... for as long as I can. And it keeps me off the streets... ;)

BTW... Happy Thanksgiving!
 

Guy S.

Well-known member
I’m thinking about building a CNC Needle machine for DTFB. I’m a CNC programmer-Machinist by trade and have a few questions about the document workflow. When cutting Flite Test PDF plans, I normally use Inkscape only to convert the pdf to a dxf. Then load the dxf into cam to apply tool paths. Is there anything that would prevent me from keeping the same process? I can customize a post processor to output any M codes needed to raise/lower the servo like used in Edwards machine. Do the controllers used in these small machines use isnc standard gcode?
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
Hey, Guy! Welcome to the party!

Being a professional, I'm sure you know more about this than I do but what you want to do is perfectly valid and logical. A couple of posts back I described using Inkscape to process the PDF and then export only the visible layers to DXF. At that point any CAM program that can import DXF can be used... which is of course virtually all of them. Estlcam is a very popular and inexpensive CAM a lot of folks in the MPCNC community like to use. In the post above, I used Lightburn... and would like to use it for the needle-cutter also, since it "reuses" the M3/M5 laser on/off commands for the servo-lift, has a very narrow kerf and, like lasering, is a center-line tracing-type operation. Most of these hobby machines are running 3d-printer-style controller boards (a 3dprinter is, after all, a small CNC machine at its core...), usually running Marlin, Grbl, or some variant... and, being microcontroller-based and with limited memory/speed, only interpret an essential SUBSET of the full "standard" (if there is such a thing?) gcode command set.

What CAM do you normally use? Lots of folks who are getting into CNC and needle-cutting foam for the first time are always looking for a post-processor for their favorite CAM program. If it's free/inexpensive and easy to use... there'll be guys all over it. ;)

Again, welcome.
 

Guy S.

Well-known member
Thanks for the welcome. I’m glad I stumbled across the forums. Im really liking the idea of one of these needle machines. I have access to full-size machines at the shop, but having one in the spare bedroom would be great. And a lot of fun to tinker with its self. I use SolidWorks to draw and model, and Surfcam for the cam side. But they are anything but free unfortunately. One of the VMC’s at the shop will import DXF directly into the controller and allow you to apply tools paths standing at the machine. I have been playing with Fusion 360 recently also, but not enough to know what I’m doing with it.