FT War Hawk vs Mustang vs Spitfire
- Thread starter Marty72
- Start date
Marty72
Elite member
Yeah, at some point. I'm waiting for now.
I've finished painting the new Mustang. It's a special edition, ha! A patriotic version. I got the paint done last night and graphics printed out, just need to finalize a few things. I'm really happy with the color scheme I came up with, never know when it's original until it's done. I'll post a pic up in a few days, after I finish. This plane is going to sit for awhile (unless I total my Yellow P51), probably wait until the 4th of July, perfect maiden day. When you see it, it will make sense.
Lots of drizzly rain lately, hope to get out to the field tomorrow morning (if it's not raining). I damaged the elevator/horz. stab. on the yellow P 51 a couple days ago, I dropped the plane accidentally disconnecting the battery. I seem to do more damage to my planes these days handling and transporting them, ha. I was able to repair it but thought I might need to redo the tail feathers completely, still may have to, I'll wait until I fly it again to decide. It will fly, just wondering if it will fly as tight I'd as I want.
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CrazyFastFlying
Elite member
Wow, that looks awesome!!
How do you get your planes to look so nice? I'm about to paint my simple cub in a few days and I want it to look really nice. Do you have any tips?
Marty72
Elite member
Thank you very much. I put more effort into this plane than most.
Sure, I can give you some tips. First, I lightly minwax the plane first. This helps prevent wrinkles from wet paint. Second, you have to be patient (which I find hard). Second, I use an iron to smooth out glue line (after the glue has dried). If I get a blob somewhere on the plane, I'll use the iron to smooth it out (works excellent). I would recommend using scrape foam to figure this out. I use scrap foam to test out painting ideas as well. I use only Rustoleum 2x paint and the blue Scotch masking tape.
If you can find the color you want in satin, that is best, the gloss finishes are less forgiving, showing more flaws. Of course, flat is the best for hiding imperfections. The Silver paint I used, Gloss aluminum is the most unforgiving stuff I've ever used. I had trouble with getting the same sheen. I found the sanding the problem area with very fine sand paper (lightly) and adding minwax, and then repaint. Again, tried out on scrap foam first. I tried a lot of this out, because the difference is sheen was unbelievable.
If you have specific question, let me know and I'll try and answer it. If you are going to paint it yellow, I've got an excellent yellow to use.
Sure, I can give you some tips. First, I lightly minwax the plane first. This helps prevent wrinkles from wet paint. Second, you have to be patient (which I find hard). Second, I use an iron to smooth out glue line (after the glue has dried). If I get a blob somewhere on the plane, I'll use the iron to smooth it out (works excellent). I would recommend using scrape foam to figure this out. I use scrap foam to test out painting ideas as well. I use only Rustoleum 2x paint and the blue Scotch masking tape.
If you can find the color you want in satin, that is best, the gloss finishes are less forgiving, showing more flaws. Of course, flat is the best for hiding imperfections. The Silver paint I used, Gloss aluminum is the most unforgiving stuff I've ever used. I had trouble with getting the same sheen. I found the sanding the problem area with very fine sand paper (lightly) and adding minwax, and then repaint. Again, tried out on scrap foam first. I tried a lot of this out, because the difference is sheen was unbelievable.
If you have specific question, let me know and I'll try and answer it. If you are going to paint it yellow, I've got an excellent yellow to use.
Marty72
Elite member
This is my go to yellow, super visible in the sky! It's not the best color for covering over another color. Keep that in mind, but is excellent on both clean poster board and FB, no sheen issues (unlike the aluminum color). I've made no secret about having orientation issues, but this color is more visible by far, than any other color I've used. There may be other yellows that work as well, don't know.
CrazyFastFlying
Elite member
Awesome! Thank you for the tips!
The minwax will also waterproof the plane, right? My simple cub is going to be a float plane so it has to be waterproof.
Yes, I'm going to paint it yellow, exacly like a real Piper j3 Cub. I attached a picture of the 2 cans of yellow I have. Which onw would be the best? I don't really want to buy another can.
Thank you again!
Jeremy
CrazyFastFlying
Elite member
CrazyFastFlying
Elite member
Also, should I minwax and paint before installing the electronics?
Marty72
Elite member
No you can minwax or paint before or after (but minwax without paint, doesn't work with hotglue as well). I'll typically install the servos and then minwax/paint. Watch Battleaxe's video on minwax, don't go crazy (be methodical, not sloppy). Yes, it will seal the plane from water to a degree. Battleaxe is very methodical, so he may have other videos that can help you. He does a very nice job with all his builds.
As far as the paint, here's what I'd do because I don't know which one is better. take a couple of pieces of scrap foam about equal size, use a piece of paper towel, dab it in minwax, wipe it on the fbs. Wait and 2 minutes, wipe them down with a paper towel. If you're in a hurry, use a fan or a hair dryer (low heat setting) and completely dry them out.
Now, spray one paint on one fb and then the other paint on the second. See which one works the best (lots of things to consider). My guess we be the R.O. but that's a guess. Going forward, get the R.O. 2X, it's even a Wally world. It's just a superior paint for fb and poster board. I've tried some other stuff, cheaper, and it's just watery. That's another thing to look at when you do this science experiment, if one of them is watery, don't use it. BTW, I understand no wanting to buy more paint, but if you haven't used them and have the receipt, you can always take them back. Battleaxe also the RO 2x, we both picked it independently. RO 2x is $4.
Again, don't rush.
ALSO; A word of caution with minwax, I 've notice it will definitely debond hot glue if it pools somewhere and isn't wiped up. The poster board/fb bond line seems to be an area to watch more than anywhere else. If it does debond, just go back and reglue it, but make sure the mixwax is completely dry. Overnight is fine.
I use rust-oleum x2 as well. Here’s my latest build - I used the Sunset paint for it I believe, or something very similar.
Marty72
Elite member
Very nice build hanger, very clean lines and great paint. The Duster makes me chuckle.
danskis
Master member
I've started using spray oil based polyurethane varnish. It goes on lighter, dries really fast and no mess. I would recommend giving it a try with a couple of coats. I just painted a plane where I got impatient and put the color coat on a little heavy and had no paper separation from the foam ($tree). Made by both Minwax and Varathane. Not sure how it would hold up on a float plane.
Thanks!
Marty72
Elite member
So today, after a forth crash (69 flights) with the P 40, I decided it's time to pull out the chassis of the P 40 2.0 I built a couple of months ago, and install the electronics. It's up and ready now for maiden. It should happen this week. I don't expect any surprises. However, I did get one surprise, the cg wasn't where I expected it to be. Version 2.0 is nose heavy, same build, not sure what happened. It's 40 grams lighter but the battery needs to be way back to achieve cg. The 1.0 version battery location was perfect, the cg of the plane.
I attempted to do a take off today with the P 40 w/ gear in wet grass, to keep it from nosing over, I found that if I held the elevator up, the plane would track fine. I've never done that before and I held the elevator up too long, the plane attempted to lift off without enough speed, so I gunned it. Well, that sort thing works with a Scout or Sportster, but with a warbird equipped with a Rimfire 3536. Yeah, I torque rolled the crap out it and broke the wing tip off at the under camber. Yes, I could fix it, but it's worn and torn and I'm excited to give it a new life. I'll refer today's crash as a Torque Roll wing tip stall. Hopefully I'll remember this and won't feel the need to repeat this error.
I attempted to do a take off today with the P 40 w/ gear in wet grass, to keep it from nosing over, I found that if I held the elevator up, the plane would track fine. I've never done that before and I held the elevator up too long, the plane attempted to lift off without enough speed, so I gunned it. Well, that sort thing works with a Scout or Sportster, but with a warbird equipped with a Rimfire 3536. Yeah, I torque rolled the crap out it and broke the wing tip off at the under camber. Yes, I could fix it, but it's worn and torn and I'm excited to give it a new life. I'll refer today's crash as a Torque Roll wing tip stall. Hopefully I'll remember this and won't feel the need to repeat this error.
Marty72
Elite member
So the P 40 maiden today, no real issues, needed hardly any trim adjustment but the plane didn't fly "right". There was no wind, but at speed, it would porpoise a bit. I moved the cg forward to 1.5 inches (was 1.75) and that fixed the issue. Now it's fast and stable like it's predecessor. I had the cg marked down as 1.75 in my records but that might have been for the C pack motor and not the Rimfire 3536. I do find with a bigger, faster prop and motor, that moving the cg forward stabilizes the plane better at higher speeds. Or maybe this plane is just different or I made a mistake recording the original cg. Regardless, it completely changed the flight characteristics in a positive way.
The Spitfire 2.0 is still the best flier of the three. The Spitfire 1.0 is still in great shape, just put aside. When I do bring it back out, I'll make adjustment to it until it flies like the 2.0. It's amazing how different the two planes fly. I suspect it's to cg location and/or too much control surface authority.
The Spitfire 2.0 is still the best flier of the three. The Spitfire 1.0 is still in great shape, just put aside. When I do bring it back out, I'll make adjustment to it until it flies like the 2.0. It's amazing how different the two planes fly. I suspect it's to cg location and/or too much control surface authority.
Marty72
Elite member
So I'm going to wrap this up today. I finally got around to trying the 8x8 prop on the C pack motor instead of the 9x6. I flew them back to back and really didn't notice any increased speed with the 8x8. I then put a total of 4 more batteries through the 8x8 prop before I concluded that the 9x6 is just a better choice. I found no more speed from the 8x8 but the plane seemed to accelerate slower.
I believe I've found the sweet spot for the C pack motor is a 9x6 prop and the Rimfire 3536 is the 10x7. Sure I could buy more props and play around more but I'm not interested in going any further. This was just a seat of the pants test to verify I was getting the most out of my planes.
As far as how they the planes compare, it's pretty much how I summarized them when I started this post. The P 40 is the slowest, and feels kind of big and lumbering compared to the P51 and the Spit. The Spit is the best all around plane, IMO. The Mustang is close but the Spit is just a more efficient flier. I've built these three planes twice, and to my surprise, they all have their own character. The second Spit flew much better than the first one ever did. The plane bodies were identical in all cases but I used different servos and different horn positions. I suspect these servo (position) changes along with other random changes (unintentional) may explain the difference.
I prefer the look of the P 40, but prefer flying the Spitfire. My biggest issue with the Mustang is the belly landing. That ram scoop on the bottom makes for harsh, unsatisfying landing.
If anyone is thinking about building one and has specific questions regarding these three planes (and how they compare) and would like to ask, please do so. I'll answer to the best of my ability but beyond that, I'm probably done here.
I believe I've found the sweet spot for the C pack motor is a 9x6 prop and the Rimfire 3536 is the 10x7. Sure I could buy more props and play around more but I'm not interested in going any further. This was just a seat of the pants test to verify I was getting the most out of my planes.
As far as how they the planes compare, it's pretty much how I summarized them when I started this post. The P 40 is the slowest, and feels kind of big and lumbering compared to the P51 and the Spit. The Spit is the best all around plane, IMO. The Mustang is close but the Spit is just a more efficient flier. I've built these three planes twice, and to my surprise, they all have their own character. The second Spit flew much better than the first one ever did. The plane bodies were identical in all cases but I used different servos and different horn positions. I suspect these servo (position) changes along with other random changes (unintentional) may explain the difference.
I prefer the look of the P 40, but prefer flying the Spitfire. My biggest issue with the Mustang is the belly landing. That ram scoop on the bottom makes for harsh, unsatisfying landing.
If anyone is thinking about building one and has specific questions regarding these three planes (and how they compare) and would like to ask, please do so. I'll answer to the best of my ability but beyond that, I'm probably done here.
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danskis
Master member
@Marty72 - just wondering what your suggested control surface angles are for a maiden on the spitfire. FT suggests this: Ailerons & Elevator: 10 degrees | Rudder: 25 degrees
Also, I agree that orientation is enhanced by the colors on the top of the wing - not the bottom. I've found that holds true on the 3 versa wings and one arrow I've built.
Also, I agree that orientation is enhanced by the colors on the top of the wing - not the bottom. I've found that holds true on the 3 versa wings and one arrow I've built.
Marty72
Elite member
So which plane are you asking about? I'm going to guess the P 40. I should really use a gauge to measure the angles, but I haven't. I did follow the FT directions on each build (the latest builds of each) to the T. I found the aileron authority of the P 40 is way greater than I need or want. I typically run low rates flying the P 40, with the Aileron only at 50%/ 30% expo. I run 80 % for elevator and rudder. The P 40 rolls plenty fast with just 50% aileron authority. I crashed a lot when I was learning to fly due to too much aileron authority, so I cut it back on all my planes to just enough to roll nicely. I have medium and high rates set up on the transmitter, but rarely use them on the P 40. I hope this is of some use. With experience, I'm finding I use higher rates on all my planes.
Yep, the color on top of the wings is the way to go. Invasion stripes on the bottom of the wings do work best (in that location) but are only effective once the plane has rolled substantially (and that may be too late for a beginner). As you said earlier, you brain need time to learn orientation. It took me awhile, but it's finally happened, I don't think I need to build anymore brightly colored contrasting paint schemes for orientation any more.
BTW, with the larger than spec motor (3536 w/ 10x7 prop), I have found I needed some thrust angle to keep the plane tracking nicely through a loop (or hammer heads). Yes, I can try and clean it up during the loop with rudder and some aileron but it's way nicer to "trim" up the motor with the proper angle. Now, I have no numbers on that, I simply use shims under the engine mount until I get the desire angle. I'm not finding I need much if any thrust angle for the spec motor, C pack.
