🔥🔥Rekindling the FT Fire🔥🔥

[FTCA Director]

I’ll try to make this as brief as possible...

I know that there are a significant number of FT OG's out there that are a little miffed at what is or is not going on within FT. I also know that a post like this has the potential to become a dumpster fire, but please understand that the fire I am searching out is not one that is fueled by garbage. The fire that I desire to see is the fire that I hear about from some of the OG's, about the "good ole days" at FT.

I have seen and heard that “FT is not the same FT that I used to know.” And honestly, I get it. I have not been very involved with FT since my first go 'round as the FT Connections guy, but I have been friends with Mr. Bixler for a lot more years. And, what I can see is that there has been progress that has been made to realizing the vision and dream he had, and still has for FT and the community.

With that being said, and with the new role I have with FT, what I want to do is try to fill in some gaps in the current setting, and possibly help restore any former fire for the FT vision that may have been lost. I know this is a big undertaking, and I will definitely need some help doing it, but I believe that this is something that must be done.

Now I know that there will always be those individuals that think they are entitled to more, and no matter what anyone does they will always have something negative to say, but I don’t want that to hinder the rekindling that is needed within the OG era. I want to see the passion from the OG’s that was there in the beginning!

I really hope that this makes a little sense to those of you that want to see some things regain some FT OG’edness. I really want to help get things connected again. I also hope that the newer FT community can appreciate the effort here. I believe that there needs to be a bridge between the old and the new in order to make things better, and now’s the time to begin that structure.

Thanks for reading this! I hope you can get behind this effort and help the future of our awesome community!

 

[kilroy07]

Bring back the old FT intro (music with the FT flyer crash)...

Seriously, we're here for ya Lee...

 

[Mr.Grinch]

As awesome as the master series designs are, I think there needs to be more OG FT type designs that are more basic, easy to build and repair, and hopefully keeping the cost of the SBK’s affordable. I understand that they may not be as flashy and might not make as much money, but they can present an easier entry into the hobby while still being something new. There are tons of older balsa kits that could easily be converted to foamboard. Although there are multiple times where it was stated that plans would always be free, most of us understand the fact that the IP needs to be protected and $ is an easy way to implement some security. Only having new designs be SBK’s (I know, just for the time being until the plans are figured out) be $75+ MS kits is a hard transition to make. Going from free plans to almost nothing (including informative updates) for about a year to kits almost as expensive as prebuilt foamies is a tough pill to swallow.

This is not meant as an attack, but just an effort to calmly draw attention to the “consumer “ side as well as a hopeful suggestion to bring back some of the joyful simplicity of the old FT.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Sorry, you guys lost me with all the acronyms. Please spell them out and then use abbreviations after that. (OG: Old Geezer?)

 

[kilroy07]

Sorry, you guys lost me with all the acronyms. Please spell them out and then use abbreviations after that. (OG: Old Geezer?)

"Original Gangster" Also "Old School" or the Orginal

But I like your definition better!!

 

[TooJung2Die]

My fault. I've been hanging out in the sparsely populated 'balsa builders and breakers' forum. FT is easy. I thought FTCA was something in California. I'll have to look up SBK and MS now too.

 

[Mr.Grinch]

Speed Build Kit
Master Series

 

[daxian]

@TooJung2Die with you there ...stopped reading shortly after seeing OG sbk and so on ...must be my age !
Lee ...simplify ! .....master series is all good ,but i miss the bixler originals ...
in my opinion ...the forums were and still are great ,untill the team went diverse ...instagram,twitter...facebook ,too many places to have to look for the simple way to ask questions /see whats new !
just a few thoughts and only my opinion...

 

[Hai-Lee]

I can only speak from my own point of view and the things relayed to me by my students and association members.
When I first joined the FT forum I did so purely based upon the mighty mini series of planes and my first FB build was a mini speedster.
The complexity of the plans and kits grew over time and I have tried most of the free designs BUT at the same time the introductory MINI series was neglected. If you want growth then you need to attract more and possibly inexperienced persons to your offerings.
Sure there were other mini offerings but the build complexity grew whereas the experience of any new person joining FT did not.

I still have at least 2 mini designs in my hangar and I love them for their simplicity of construction, robust nature, and minimal amount of material.

My students really like the idea of FB construction but most claim to have a hand full of thumbs at the end of each of their arms. The work involved in some of the newer mini offerings actually puts them off totally. I have learned a lot about what can be done with FB and even I do not wish to involve myself in some of the latest offerings simply because I also build in other materials and I do like the old timer designs.

The no longer publishing plans will NOT stop designs being stolen and manufactured by others simply because anyone can by a sample of your product including someone acting on the behalf of a would be manufacturer. I do not have an answer to this problem apart from local distribution outlets around the globe. A manufacturer, (overseas), will face freight costs whereas local, (licensed), outlets should have less costs in distributing your product and have the delivery times in days and not months.

Enough for now as revitalising the FT brand will need a revisiting of the simple and basic design roots that started it all.

Good luck and as always,

Have fun!

 

[Matthewdupreez]

an idea would be to contact various people who have designed the simpler fb planes, and get their permission to turn them into cheaper sbk's...
i am sure many people would be delighted to let ft use their plans, and there are a ton of really awesome plans right here on this forum.

Just my $0.02

 

[MCNC]

As a casual hobbyist I got into this because I had a few open hay fields around and the cost of entry was reasonable. I had a few hours of spare time per week and a desire to build. I did not have a desire to do endless research to know if what I am doing was legal and if not how much work is involved in becoming legal. I am not interested in clubs. I am hoping the steps that I need to take are in a video like the build videos. So my desire has waned somewhat waiting for instructions on how rural casual folks can stay in this hobby legally and encourage others to come along. So while I am flying others are shooting at doves nearby so hopefully I will not be told flying this toy is too dangerous.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Enough for now as revitalizing the FT brand will need a revisiting of the simple and basic design roots that started it all.

Hear hear! No one should disparage Flite Test for their growth and success. Its evolution into what it is today is a testament to Bixler's vision. I hope Flite Test will continue to grow and change. The masters series is exciting but it was the beginners plans like the mighty minis that drew me back into the hobby. Flite Test taught me how to build and fly without spending a small fortune. After a while this birdy left the nest and is building its own designs in foam board and balsa. But I still fly the Tiny Trainer. Keep the simple stuff up front to attract the new and inexperienced.

 

[tamuct01]

I still love all the "OG" stuff with Josh & Josh, David Windestål, and Peter Shripol. As much as I would love to see more of that, people grow, advance, and move on to other chapters in their lives. It's sad, but reality. The next phase of FT was Alex and Stephan doing crazy bits in a VLOG format, and that's fun, but it's a big demand and can lead to burnout. As we move into the giant builds and Master Series I look at it as another phase in the continuing evolution of Flite Test.

A big challenge for FT is dealing with the change. As people come and go in the organization, Bixler has continued to adapt to keep the original vision alive. As much as we like the old days if FT kept churning out simple designs people would migrate to something else. Adapting and growing the building techniques further expands the base. How many of us show up to the field with a simple foamboard plane and get weird looks at what you're about to put in the air? Show up to the field with a polished and molded MS series plane and folks tend to be amazed at the craftsmanship.

I don't know the solution to this, but FT has amassed such an amazing library of content (videos, plans, articles, forum posts, social media) that it might be overwhelming to a new person. Where would you direct a complete noob to start? I love the forums and social media, but seeing many of the same questions from new folks (what transmitter should I buy?) tends to get old. There's a great Get Started section on the website, but it's not integrated into the other media (forums, social media) areas. Does FT have any metrics on how often that section of the site is used? Is there another way to grow that section to incorporate the journey new folks take from beginner to novice to more advanced?

This post is getting long, but the last comment I have is about FT being a business vs. being a community. In the beginning, it was a community of folks kicking around making silly videos. Most of the folks had other jobs and the store existed to bolster the Youtube revenue. Being a content creator on YouTube, etc. is extremely hard to pull off. Almost all content creators rely on Patreon and sponsorships to keep afloat. I get the business decision to move into other, more sustained, and profitable areas. The Flite Test team has a job and expects to be compensated for doing the job. Expanding the store, hosting events, having an event center (Edgewater), and expanding the brand into STEM, FTCC, etc. are all ways to diversify the income stream of the company and provide long-term stability. Kudos to Bixler for doing all of those things. I contributed a not insignificant donation to Edgewater, and I wear my Founder's shirt and hat with the utmost pride. Flite Test can be a business and community. Thanks to the whole team for making that possible!

 

[AIRFORGE]

@FTCA Director - Lee, how much control does Lauren International have concerning Flite Test, and the FTCA?

 

[Tc Concepts]

@FTCA Director - Lee, how much control does Lauren International have concerning Flite Test, and the FTCA?

HMMMMMMMMMM!!!! You bring up a very good question

 

[mrjdstewart]

well i think the fact that you are here and not on facebook asking these questions is a great start. i have always scratched my head as to why FT did not make more out of this wonderful resource that is the forum. seemed like we were kinda second class members which obviously made a few of us a little salty. so, thanks for being here.

laters,

me

 

[JasonK]

As a casual hobbyist I got into this because I had a few open hay fields around and the cost of entry was reasonable. I had a few hours of spare time per week and a desire to build. I did not have a desire to do endless research to know if what I am doing was legal and if not how much work is involved in becoming legal. I am not interested in clubs. I am hoping the steps that I need to take are in a video like the build videos. So my desire has waned somewhat waiting for instructions on how rural casual folks can stay in this hobby legally and encourage others to come along. So while I am flying others are shooting at doves nearby so hopefully I will not be told flying this toy is too dangerous.

Right now, take the trust training (it is called a test, but is really a training), check the B4UF app to make sure the location is a legal flight spot, register yourself as a hobbyist on the FAA website and label your craft (if over 250g). It will get 'messy' when RID (IIRC 1 year out for manufactures to comply 2 for preexisting/self built stuff) stuff and 2 for comes out, which, I believe will add to that putting a RID module on your over 250g craft, but as a hobbyist you can swap it between craft

 

[JasonK]

I have been pondering on this all day, and I think this is actually a multi-part issue, but unfortunately, the issues tend to get muddied together, which makes it harder to talk about each of them. The ones that I can ID are as follows:

• I remember things through rose colored glasses
  • I do wonder how much of the 'OG' fire that has gone away is related to this very point, especially in light of the FAA rules changes + the business aspects of FT.
• Concern over the hobby given the the changes to the FAA hobby rules and remote ID
  • For me, this is one of the biggest ones, to follow the current rules I already have to drive 30+ minutes away from my house because of an air-force base, RID [even in the current 'reduced' format] makes flying rather concerning when any one can pull up an app on their cell phone and complain about someone having safe fun. I think they were talking about a RID module being "cheap" at $50... which to me isn't that cheap for someone getting started and is definitely something that will hurt the hobby (you can get in at about $200 with an acceptable low cost RX and FT SBC/Power pack and if you part out the stuff, you could probably get that down to $100-125 - so + $50 + lots of extra rules is going to hurt)
• The changing of the style of content on YouTube
  • I see multiple phases in the content which migrated from a few people 'goofing off' in someone's basement, through the crazy projects of David Windestål and Peter Shripol, to the slow push toward giant/monster projects with "clickbaity" titles/content. Myself, liked the crazy projects phase the best, but unfortunately the YouTube algorithm & David and Peter moving on, has also moved on the FT main channel content.
• Master Series/ending of free plans
  • Myself, I have very little interest in MS planes as I fly for the experience of flying (mostly FPV), not to spend hours and hours building something to look pretty (and If I was, I would likely consider other materials then FB).
  • Ending of free plans, while rather unfortunate, I see why it was done, as other have pointed out, I am unsure if the changes will fix the copy cats (which unfortunately are not inside the US, so there isn't much legal remedy either)
• Flite Test being business vs community
  • I came into this late, when FT was already a business. I can see how this migration from 'people having fun' to 'need to be financially viable' has made some changes in the content (see above about YouTube algorithm for example). Also, apparently the parent company situation (I didn't realize that FT was owned by another company until this thread, which does beg the question how much impact is that having on FT)
• How does FTCA fit into the Flite Test family?
  • This is one I think we are all waiting for @FTCA Director to explain to us how they fit together and what the future plans are. Also related would be how the FT STEM/education materials fit in.

I am sure there are more and hopefully others who have concerns can separate out their ideas into topic/thoughts to help the discussion.

Myself, I am rather hopeful for the FTCA to be standing up for the hobby, to keep us able to enjoy it. Given the limits for where I can fly, I am more interested in smaller stuff. The H-pack got me rather excited, but disappeared rather quickly.

I think one of the biggest things you can do, is help us understand the FTCA vs FT (store/YouTube channel/etc) fits together.

 

[clolsonus]

Here's a few of my half baked thoughts. This isn't to be critical in any way, I'm just trying to think back about what I miss a bit from the OG days vs now.

One thing that really caught my attention early on was just the goofy creativity and discovery aspects. David and Peter (and others I'm forgetting) seemed to have endless goofy, slightly sketchy, maybe a bit plausible ideas to try. So many of those turned out super cool, for example the afterburner edf, the underwater helicopter, airplane jenga ...

I've built a handful of FT designs and they all have flown amazing. I really appreciate the simplicity and that you can build something up without a 100 hours of emotional investment or a huge $$$ investment like you might have with a big balsa kit or a really high end arf. The focus on lowering the bar to entry and making the hobby a more welcoming place is one of the most important missions of flite test.

One thing I haven't figured out what I think exactly about the whole bigger/epicness push in the last couple years of videos. It is cool, don't get me wrong, but I feel like we are stuck a bit on just making bigger versions of planes. I still really enjoy the videos and watch them all faithfully, but I miss some of the creativity and variety of the early days.

Life is always changing, people come and go in our lives, our neighborhoods, our work places, our favorite youtube channels ... so we are always needing to rediscover the sweet spot of all the things we do. I've been watching FT long enough to see quite a few transitions, some bring great new young talent, and some are big losses (to the FT youtube channel) as people move on to other seasons of life and new adventures.

I work at a university aerospace engineering dept, so my great video ideas are probably super boring or require 500 hours of computer work before the first pixel goes the right direction on the screen ... but I am also fortunate to work with a few student groups each year and I love the fresh energy and goofy humor and excitement about discovering and trying new things. They are always so excited and exuberant before the first flights, and all year have been imagining everything flying gloriously as they build their projects. And then I'm sure we all know what usually happens next ... I think it would be awesome if Josh or others on the team found a few hours to mentor a local student design-build-fly group, or a senior design project at a local university and made some videos about that. The past two years our university sponsored a drone competition intended to involve a bunch of smaller colleges around our state and even an high school group. It was loosely focused on mimicking some of the mars exploration tasks. I was a judge and it was fun to see the creativity and excitement that comes out of these "kids" ... there was some really nice work done, some obvious mistakes, some big challenges to overcome (especially with covid), but watching the learning process through it all I think is the coolest thing.

So if I had any advice to offer, it's that I miss some of the creativity and discovery aspects of the early days and I don't really need every new video to just be a bigger and more epic plane build.

 

[Tench745]

I think JasonK has summed up the points nicely.
I will add my two cents.
Concern over the hobby given the the changes to the FAA hobby rules and remote ID
-I know the FTCA is part of FT's effort to have some effect in this department, but ultimately there is only so much anyone can do.
-We're in a weird transitional phase in FAA regulations. Everything is up in the air and it's hard to know what you need to do when. In two years when RID is fully in effect, I suspect it will be a little less convoluted to get in the air than it is now. It's my hope that the RID technology will be as simple as a micro-reciever-sized module to plug into your plane, or even included in new receivers.

The changing of the style of content on YouTube
-The Youtube content has always been the bait. It's shiny, interesting stuff to get people interested in RC aviation and show them that it's achievable. It is the reason I have a dozen planes strewn about my apartment. When it all started there was a strong feeling of teaching, sharing information, explaining the process, etc. Now it seems like the videos are about some big flashy project. They refer to products the FT store sells which have made the giant, flashy, project possible. It's no longer focusing on the HOW and WHY of the build, and it sort-of implies that projects like that are only attainable by using FT products. And, of course, somewhere in all of that there is a 2 minute plug for some unrelated sponsor. Some of this might be the "rose colored glasses" effect mentioned earlier, and some of it might be that I already know the information, so I'm just not seeing the teaching moments I loved in the earlier videos when I was getting started.

Master Series/ending of free plans
-The MS builds do little for me, personally. They look great and seem to fly great, but if I'm aiming for a cool scale looking aircraft like that, I will be using other methods that result in a stronger, lighter, or more finished bird. Plus my personal stock of electronics are based around the 2830 motors from before quad motors took over everything. I have stock and buying a new generation of motors, props, etc for the Master Series style of builds just hasn't been worth it yet.
-There needs to more clarity about what has happened to the free plans. People are going crazy that FT has let them down, and "lied about the free plans always being available," when nothing has actually gone away? My understanding is that the free plans are still available for download through the forum, but have been removed from the "resources" section for the respective planes on the FT site. It feels like FT is hiding the things they used to build and grow the community; pushing them into the shadow of the things FT charges for. It feels like a money grab at our expense, and that never makes anyone happy.

How does FTCA fit into the Flite Test family?
No really, how? I have yet to hear anyone give a succinct explanation of what the FTCA is (or is supposed to be) doing. I haven't heard a real explanation of WHY anyone should join other than to "bring hope to the hobby". What does the FTCA offer other than a slightly different set of CBA guidelines to follow for FAA compliance and a yearly subscription to new FT plans?

I realize that the way I have worded things may read as really harsh, or upset. I assure you it is not, but I don't know how to put it a nicer way without muddling the point.

I think it's safe to say that what we want most of all is information.
You say you're here because "I know that there are a significant number of FT OG's out there that are a little miffed at what is or is not going on within FT." But you haven't actually said anything about what is or isn't happening within FT!
We want clear, easy to find communications about what is going on. We want there to be a clear line of communicaiton without having to check 5 different social media sites. We want to know where to find information, both about FT and about building/flying RC.
We want announcements so we know what to expect. We want release dates to mean something. We also want there to be new information; flying or building techniques; explorations of gas/nitro planes, soaring, scale, full scale, etc; updates on what FT is planning, not just "Here's our latest monster build." Don't get me wrong, monster builds are great and attract new viewers, but they are not the depth and breadth of the RC hobby, nor should they be the sole focus of the YouTube channel.