2025 Speed Challenge - Telnar1236

telnar1236

Elite member
Didn't see this challenge until right before the end, so I don't have much time, and I'm mostly curious about how fast a 50mm EDF can go more than trying to win, but here is my design. It's meant to be able to be printed on my spare printer and in PLA so I can print it quite fast while also continuing to print my other projects. The structure is also mostly going to make use of infill instead of a modeled internal structure, but it's so small that I'm not adding much weight.
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There are a few things I'm trying to do here. The basic design is a flying wing with a very thin streamlined wing wrapped as tightly as possible around the required electronics.
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The control surfaces are designed to use fully internal linkages to reduce drag which is the main reason I went with a flying wing instead of more of a T-tail like a pylon racer. While I'm modeling it with a 4s 2200 pack and using that in my calculations to give me some room to add weight, the plan is for it to fly on a 4s 1550 mAh pack to keep the weight down which should give it a flying weight of about 600g with 950g of thrust.
1754768509824.png

The least conventional design feature is the location of the EDF. Its location behind and in line with the fuselage is selected so that it should ingest pretty much the entire fuselage boundary layer. Ultimately, drag comes from the airplane slowing the air down around it. Simultaneously, one of the limitations of any electric RC plane is the pitch speed of the power system. By letting the EDF ingest the air from the fuselage boundary layer, it mostly cancels out the drag from the fuselage which significantly reduces the drag of the airframe as a whole. At least that's the theory - we'll see how it works in practice.
1754770188364.png

This is CFD of it flying a 110 mph. You can see how the EDF keeps the flow attached resulting in high pressure on both the front and back of the fuselage.
1754770544766.png

And how the except for the stagnation point at the nose and the EDF lip, the air keeps moving smoothly without really being stopped or becoming turbulent anywhere.

I'm not really sure how fast this thing will end up being largely because I don't really have any data on the pitch speed or thrust curve for the EDF unit. If thrust remained constant at the static value, it could hit 270 mph, and if the pitch speed is the static efflux speed (66 m/s) it will top out at a more sedate 115 mph. This is also all assuming the surface is smooth and not accounting for the layer lines and imperfections from 3D printing which will add drag and not accounting for the outline of the hatch and trim drag from the elevons which will both also slow it down. I'm also not sure how turbulence from the boundary layer might impact the power output of the EDF.

Basically, this all goes to say, I don't really know what the top speed will be. I'm fairly sure it will be north of 100 mph but beyond that it's a bit up in the air. If I had to throw darts at a dart board and guess, my best estimate would be somewhere between 120 and 150 mph, but that could be quite wrong.
 

Houndpup Rc

Legendary member
Didn't see this challenge until right before the end, so I don't have much time, and I'm mostly curious about how fast a 50mm EDF can go more than trying to win, but here is my design. It's meant to be able to be printed on my spare printer and in PLA so I can print it quite fast while also continuing to print my other projects. The structure is also mostly going to make use of infill instead of a modeled internal structure, but it's so small that I'm not adding much weight.
View attachment 252731
There are a few things I'm trying to do here. The basic design is a flying wing with a very thin streamlined wing wrapped as tightly as possible around the required electronics.
View attachment 252732
The control surfaces are designed to use fully internal linkages to reduce drag which is the main reason I went with a flying wing instead of more of a T-tail like a pylon racer. While I'm modeling it with a 4s 2200 pack and using that in my calculations to give me some room to add weight, the plan is for it to fly on a 4s 1550 mAh pack to keep the weight down which should give it a flying weight of about 600g with 950g of thrust.
View attachment 252733
The least conventional design feature is the location of the EDF. Its location behind and in line with the fuselage is selected so that it should ingest pretty much the entire fuselage boundary layer. Ultimately, drag comes from the airplane slowing the air down around it. Simultaneously, one of the limitations of any electric RC plane is the pitch speed of the power system. By letting the EDF ingest the air from the fuselage boundary layer, it mostly cancels out the drag from the fuselage which significantly reduces the drag of the airframe as a whole. At least that's the theory - we'll see how it works in practice.
View attachment 252734
This is CFD of it flying a 110 mph. You can see how the EDF keeps the flow attached resulting in high pressure on both the front and back of the fuselage.
View attachment 252735
And how the except for the stagnation point at the nose and the EDF lip, the air keeps moving smoothly without really being stopped or becoming turbulent anywhere.

I'm not really sure how fast this thing will end up being largely because I don't really have any data on the pitch speed or thrust curve for the EDF unit. If thrust remained constant at the static value, it could hit 270 mph, and if the pitch speed is the static efflux speed (66 m/s) it will top out at a more sedate 115 mph. This is also all assuming the surface is smooth and not accounting for the layer lines and imperfections from 3D printing which will add drag and not accounting for the outline of the hatch and trim drag from the elevons which will both also slow it down. I'm also not sure how turbulence from the boundary layer might impact the power output of the EDF.

Basically, this all goes to say, I don't really know what the top speed will be. I'm fairly sure it will be north of 100 mph but beyond that it's a bit up in the air. If I had to throw darts at a dart board and guess, my best estimate would be somewhere between 120 and 150 mph, but that could be quite wrong.
Glad to have you!...Man, I wish I knew you would be interested otherwise I would have invited you a long time ago!
 

Piotrsko

Legendary member
I suppose placing the fan inlet just aft of a high point would get accelerated air flow, or at least that what my theory book indicates
 

telnar1236

Elite member
Glad to have you!...Man, I wish I knew you would be interested otherwise I would have invited you a long time ago!
Honestly, probably wouldn't have been before all this recent discussion about how to make a plane go fast made me curious, but seems like a fun competition. Speed has never really been my thing and I suspect I'll struggle to keep track of this thing.
 

Mr Man

Mr SPEED!
Honestly, probably wouldn't have been before all this recent discussion about how to make a plane go fast made me curious, but seems like a fun competition. Speed has never really been my thing and I suspect I'll struggle to keep track of this thing.
Still, I must say that you’re quite the designer! That plane looks insane!
 

telnar1236

Elite member
I suppose placing the fan inlet just aft of a high point would get accelerated air flow, or at least that what my theory book indicates
In this case, I'm somewhat trying to do the opposite - get the lower speed air into the fan. Since I never really slow the air down, there's not really any reason to get higher dynamic pressure into the inlet. In this case, the fan is far enough aft of the thicker section of the fuselage that the air starts to slow down again and without the fan, the boundary layer would start to separate more and become turbulent increasing drag. You can see it a bit better in this picture where the contours are adjusted to better show how the flow is slowed down by the fuselage before entering the fan (where of course it speeds up a lot due to the addition of other air from around the plane and the delta P across the fan.
1754842057441.png

The BLI (boundary layer ingesting inlet) concept is something that I stumbled across in some publications from NASA and something I have been looking for an opportunity to mess around with for a while now. Their concept is more to reduce drag to improve fuel efficiency, but reduced drag can also make you go faster.
1754842173570.png
 

L Edge

Legendary member
I suppose placing the fan inlet just aft of a high point would get accelerated air flow, or at least that what my theory book indicates
That is one of the designs of the BWB where the engines are above isolated above (or within 2 rudders) where they believe it will be more efficient to improve speed/lower fuel requirements for the airlines.

Nasa has also flown a plane in the wake of an identical plane and found it reduced the fuel consumption by 11 percent. Bad part, you will have to put up with turbulence. Hope was, by drafting, airlines could reduced tickets cost and not serve meals.
 

telnar1236

Elite member
With how simple the plane is, it didn't really take very long to print everything, so it's mostly assembled now. I'll probably try and get to the electronics tomorrow evening which should give me the rest of the week to try and get some flights in.
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The weight is also looking good. Currently it's looking like the AUW will be closer to 500 g which I'm not complaining about. This thing is absolutely tiny - only 20" long with a 20" wingspan, so I'm a bit worried about if I'll be able to see it in the air.
 

Houndpup Rc

Legendary member
Honestly, probably wouldn't have been before all this recent discussion about how to make a plane go fast made me curious, but seems like a fun competition. Speed has never really been my thing and I suspect I'll struggle to keep track of this thing.
You can keep track of who's in the lead by just checking the first post of the main speed challenge thread...I will update everyone everytime I update who is in the lead (y)
 

Houndpup Rc

Legendary member
With how simple the plane is, it didn't really take very long to print everything, so it's mostly assembled now. I'll probably try and get to the electronics tomorrow evening which should give me the rest of the week to try and get some flights in.
View attachment 252743
View attachment 252744
The weight is also looking good. Currently it's looking like the AUW will be closer to 500 g which I'm not complaining about. This thing is absolutely tiny - only 20" long with a 20" wingspan, so I'm a bit worried about if I'll be able to see it in the air.
Wow you work fast! BTW you have to beat 111 now(y)
 

Piotrsko

Legendary member
Hmmm: Mr Man or telnar1236. Interesting contest: elegant advanced theory versus brute force engineering. Getting out popcorn and beer.

Oh and you dont get airspeed increase after high point. Was just checking the audience level.
 

telnar1236

Elite member
You can keep track of who's in the lead by just checking the first post of the main speed challenge thread...I will update everyone everytime I update who is in the lead (y)
Mostly worried about keeping track of it in the air and not losing orientation 😂. But more seriously, I'm following that thread - it's good to know kind of performance I'll need.