36" Northern Pike - 3D Printed Cuda Clone (It Flies & STL's are Posted!)

whackflyer

Master member
@RustySocket I had similar problems until I went to .1 layer height per @localfiend's suggestion. That pretty much fixed it. I noticed you are printing the wingtips which are more susceptible to this behavior because of the angled walls.
 

RustySocket

Active member
Well that didnt end well... I'm going to call it a night. I'll clean it all up tomorrow with a clear head and give it another shot.

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localfiend

I like 3D printers...
Mentor
Well that didnt end well... I'm going to call it a night. I'll clean it all up tomorrow with a clear head and give it another shot.

View attachment 160988

Yeah, I'd try reducing the nozzle temp on those. You can do that manually on the printer after the print starts. If you decide to slice things on your own, that black filament may benefit from a slightly lower layer height, as well as increased print width.

The bed adhesion problem is weird for PETG though, as your 1st layer height looks ok. You could try to go a bit lower. I don't have a textured sheet on any of my printers at the moment. Make sure it's clean. And tiny bit of oils from your hands are a big problem.

Found the details lol. I'm blind as a bat apparently!🤣🤣

Yeah, I was gonna say. I thought I added them lol.
 

OliverW

Legendary member
Yeah, I'd try reducing the nozzle temp on those. You can do that manually on the printer after the print starts. If you decide to slice things on your own, that black filament may benefit from a slightly lower layer height, as well as increased print width.

The bed adhesion problem is weird for PETG though, as your 1st layer height looks ok. You could try to go a bit lower. I don't have a textured sheet on any of my printers at the moment. Make sure it's clean. And tiny bit of oils from your hands are a big problem.



Yeah, I was gonna say. I thought I added them lol.
I've got a roll of Orange Hatchbox PLA on the way rn. Should be fun to rip it around! Is there a separate thread for it, or should I post the updates here?
 

RustySocket

Active member
Yeah, I'd try reducing the nozzle temp on those. You can do that manually on the printer after the print starts. If you decide to slice things on your own, that black filament may benefit from a slightly lower layer height, as well as increased print width.

The bed adhesion problem is weird for PETG though, as your 1st layer height looks ok. You could try to go a bit lower. I don't have a textured sheet on any of my printers at the moment. Make sure it's clean. And tiny bit of oils from your hands are a big problem.



Yeah, I was gonna say. I thought I added them lol.

So before this happened I was watching it print and when the head would go from one side to the other it was as though it was catching on the edge of the wingtip as it crossed over. All of the other panels were adhered rather well. That was why I kind of wondered if my live z was a bit too low. Something was definitely catching on the vertical stabilizers though.

I used the textured plate because I had read that PETG stuck too well to the smooth plate.

I'm playing around with Cura and have imported the cura profile that was in the zip file (I think it was the one from 3d labs). I did change the height down to .15 but when I slice it the wingtips have visible holes. If I go all the way down to .06 then those holes disappear.

I went ahead and restarted the file as-is. I did drop the temp to 225 and I slowed down the speed to 75%. The mess really wasn't all that bad, I didn't' have the glob I expected to find. I did switch back to the smooth plate in hopes that things will stay stuck.

If Simplify3d is the proper slicer to use for this type of project, I may just have to bite the bullet and purchase it. I'm too far into this to quit now. I want to learn but at the same time I really don't have a good understanding how all the variables interact and one thing I have learned is that there is no need to try to reinvent the wheel. I kind of jumped right in to building the printer and going right to printing planes, and maybe I should find some resources to read about how it all works together and learn a bit more. At this stage I'm kind of just the line cook following the recipe, but if something goes wrong I don't know where to begin to fix it...
 

RustySocket

Active member
Here's what I am getting using the Cura profile. This is with .25 layer height.

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This is sliced at .15 and the holes are still present.

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localfiend

I like 3D printers...
Mentor
Here's what I am getting using the Cura profile. This is with .25 layer height.

View attachment 161012

This is sliced at .15 and the holes are still present.

View attachment 161014

For wingtips and stabs, add a few top layers. That will fill in the holes.

If you were using simplify3d, you could make only the top part of the wingtip have top layers, but it really won't add that much weight to have it turned on for the whole piece.

You could also print the entire tip with two perimeters. It'l double the weight, but they're only wingtips.


Is the wing spar necessary for the smaller version?

Probably not, though I have not tried it. I don't remember if I resized the spar hole or not. If I didn't resize it, then it'l be smaller than the big one. If that's the case it's 6mm.

You can probably easily find something that would work. Or you could just 3d print a 6mm cylinder to use as an alignment pin.
 

OliverW

Legendary member
For wingtips and stabs, add a few top layers. That will fill in the holes.

If you were using simplify3d, you could make only the top part of the wingtip have top layers, but it really won't add that much weight to have it turned on for the whole piece.

You could also print the entire tip with two perimeters. It'l double the weight, but they're only wingtips.




Probably not, though I have not tried it. I don't remember if I resized the spar hole or not. If I didn't resize it, then it'l be smaller than the big one. If that's the case it's 6mm.

You can probably easily find something that would work. Or you could just 3d print a 6mm cylinder to use as an alignment pin.
I'll do that.
 

RustySocket

Active member
I'll do that.

I am very unfamiliar with these settings. Are you using Cura or Simplify3d? Would you be willing to post a shot of what your changing to accomplish this?

I restarted my print using the supplied PETG gcode for the vstabs and wingtips. I switched from the textured sheet to the smooth sheet just to make sure the print stayed stuck this time. I turned down the temp to 225 and slowed the print speed down to 80%. It is coming out nearly perfect this time. The wing tips still have some tiny holes at the very tip. I had already restarted the print before it was suggested to add a couple layers. I don't think in this case it will be a problem as I can fill the holes slightly with some CA when I assemble the plane (and the likelihood of a crash is pretty high so it may not warrant a reprint at this point.

I can still hear the print head catching on part of the structure as it passes over. I got down real close and it appears that when some of the internal ribs are printing the holes there is a tiny bit of it that sticks up as the print head is making the hole and jumping the gap. (terrible description. Something kind of like the curl on the top of an ice cream cone. It makes quite a noise because the thin wall acts like a drum head. Have you experienced this?

@localfiend:

When you suggested to lower the layer height and widen the print a bit how is it possible to widen past the width of the nozzle (in my case 0.4). Is that done by squishing the bead a bit as it is layed down (lowering the print head)?

I will continue on with my search for a dryer and get the hatch covers printed later today. Slowing things down by 20% seems to have helped quite a bit but it tries my patience. I can see why a guy might have a few of these machines working side by side. I enjoyed the build process so much I might consider assembling a clone at this point (Another Prusa is just not in the budget for now). I am real glad I took your advice and got a nice machine for my first one.

Thanks for all the help.
 

OliverW

Legendary member
I am very unfamiliar with these settings. Are you using Cura or Simplify3d? Would you be willing to post a shot of what your changing to accomplish this?

I restarted my print using the supplied PETG gcode for the vstabs and wingtips. I switched from the textured sheet to the smooth sheet just to make sure the print stayed stuck this time. I turned down the temp to 225 and slowed the print speed down to 80%. It is coming out nearly perfect this time. The wing tips still have some tiny holes at the very tip. I had already restarted the print before it was suggested to add a couple layers. I don't think in this case it will be a problem as I can fill the holes slightly with some CA when I assemble the plane (and the likelihood of a crash is pretty high so it may not warrant a reprint at this point.

I can still hear the print head catching on part of the structure as it passes over. I got down real close and it appears that when some of the internal ribs are printing the holes there is a tiny bit of it that sticks up as the print head is making the hole and jumping the gap. (terrible description. Something kind of like the curl on the top of an ice cream cone. It makes quite a noise because the thin wall acts like a drum head. Have you experienced this?

@localfiend:

When you suggested to lower the layer height and widen the print a bit how is it possible to widen past the width of the nozzle (in my case 0.4). Is that done by squishing the bead a bit as it is layed down (lowering the print head)?

I will continue on with my search for a dryer and get the hatch covers printed later today. Slowing things down by 20% seems to have helped quite a bit but it tries my patience. I can see why a guy might have a few of these machines working side by side. I enjoyed the build process so much I might consider assembling a clone at this point (Another Prusa is just not in the budget for now). I am real glad I took your advice and got a nice machine for my first one.

Thanks for all the help.
Once I setup the files tonight after my band concert, I'll take a few pics
 

RustySocket

Active member
These are the completed wingtips and vstab pieces, printed from the PETG gcode with the nozzle temp dropped to 225 (I allowed the first layers to print at 240 as in the code and once it dropped to 230 I went into the Tune menu and dropped it another 5 degrees), I also slowed the print speed from 100 down to 80. Print time was a little over 10 hours.

Overall they came out worlds better than the first failed attempt. There are a few minor defects here and there but they are certainly usable pieces that a little bit of finish work with a piece of sandpaper will smooth right out.

Both the very top layers of the wingtips and the vstabs show the holes that I was seeing in Cura when I looked at the gcode. I held one up to the light so they would show in the photo.


My understanding at this point is that I could reprint the pieces using two perimeters (and I am guessing that the perimeter is the actual skin) which would double the weight of the pieces, or I could add additional top layers (in this case the top being the tips) by reslicing in Cura with the appropriate changes. Or I could use Simplify3d which has the capability to add perimeters to close the gaps in the upper layers, which is something Cura cannot do. @localfiend Is my summary correct? If that is all true then would I expect anybody using that particular gcode to get the same result with the holes or will it vary from machine to machine.

Because these are airplanes the goal is to keep the wing loading as low as possible. Printing the wingtips with two perimeters (doubling the weight) might not be that big of an increase, but to do the same with the much larger Vstabs doesn't seem like the best approach. I am gathering that may be a justification to move to Simplify3D .

I have the hatch covers printing now (black PETG). Once they are complete I will switch the machine over to the Red filament and begin printing the fuselage and wing pieces.




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RustySocket

Active member
First round of "Red" pieces printed. Matterhackers transparent Red PETG is more pink....oh well I meant to order blue anyway..that's what I get. On that nose piece am I suppose to remove that material on the inside? Is that a support structure?
20200311_170806.jpg
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localfiend

I like 3D printers...
Mentor
Both the very top layers of the wingtips and the vstabs show the holes that I was seeing in Cura when I looked at the gcode. I held one up to the light so they would show in the photo.

My understanding at this point is that I could reprint the pieces using two perimeters (and I am guessing that the perimeter is the actual skin) which would double the weight of the pieces, or I could add additional top layers (in this case the top being the tips) by reslicing in Cura with the appropriate changes. Or I could use Simplify3d which has the capability to add perimeters to close the gaps in the upper layers, which is something Cura cannot do. @localfiend Is my summary correct? If that is all true then would I expect anybody using that particular gcode to get the same result with the holes or will it vary from machine to machine.

Because these are airplanes the goal is to keep the wing loading as low as possible. Printing the wingtips with two perimeters (doubling the weight) might not be that big of an increase, but to do the same with the much larger Vstabs doesn't seem like the best approach. I am gathering that may be a justification to move to Simplify3D .

Some of the holes you can see light through are a part of the G-Code (I didn't feel like it was worth it to print the part any more solidly - this is an aircraft after all, and you can't see pinholes unless you're really looking). The other bigger holes are from filament failures. Either something was stuck to the nozzle, or there was an inconsistency, or both. Any tiny problem is multiplied on thin wall prints, especially on steeper overhangs.

There is another option available to you for the V-Stabs if you really care about getting perfect parts. You can use a program like meshmixer (it's free, and there are tutorials on youtube) to chop the STL into two sections. Then you can print the lower base at one perimeter, and the tip at 2. More of a pain, and adds another glue joint, but it's a way around buying Simplify3D.

You can tune out some of the nozzle catching an edge of a part with z-hop. Mostly the issue is that with PETG, stringing is almost impossible to completely get rid of. You can reduce your extrusion multiplayer, lower temps, and play with retraction settings to get things a little better for your spool of filament. That'l reduce some of the overheight problems that can crop up at retraction points.

You'll greatly increase your chances of impacting the strength of the part by doing that though. It all depends on if you enjoy tuning to that level of perfection.

And yes, the material on the inside of the fuselage cap is support material. Grab it with a pair of needle nose pliers and pull it out. Depending on your filament, this can be easy, and come out in one pieces, or a little more difficult.

Also, to answer a previous question, you can print wider than than your nozzle size. E3d Nozzles (and most others, but not all) like your Prusa has, have a flat bottomed nozzle. You can increase print width until you start reaching the edge of that flat spot. With a .4mm nozzle, you're generally okish until you start going past .55mm print widths. Keep in mind that increasing the width, means more plastic, and more weight.

DRAWING-V6-175-NOZZLE.png
 

RustySocket

Active member
@SquirrelTail
Sharp looking color blue. That would contrast nice with the "Red" filament I purchased.

@localfiend
Thank you for your detailed explanation and your patience with all of my questions. More likely than not I will end up purchasing Simplifly3D as I see many people are using it to gain more control over the printing process. I have blown my budget for this month. I'm listing some of my old nitro gear that hasn't been fired up in years and will recycle some funds into a different aspect of the hobby.

I had to take a little diversion from printing the plane today, as my daughter has been promised a crack at printing a R2D2 robot. She has been patiently waiting since the printer arrived and finally called me out on it. Northern Pike printing will resume tomorrow.