3d printer help.

[IcedStorm777]

I think i am gonna use this heated boro glass 400mm circle from this website. It heats to175c and is quite cheap. I can always add a adhesion sticker if i have to.

http://www.tridprinting.com/Heated-Bed-Components/

 

[IcedStorm777]

So it has been a while sense i posted so here is what i got. I am building a delta 3d printer. I have finished the printer frame and am just starting on the gantry carts and motors. Here is a picture of the printer so far, their is a 36" ruler on the left of the printer for scale.

Here are the electronics i am planning to use, please let me know if you see anything wrong or see anything that you think won't work well.

Hotend- https://e3d-online.com/v6-all-metal-hotend

I am upgrading it with this- https://e3d-online.com/volcano-upgrade-kit

What type of nozzle should i get? Does it matter at all what material it is or...
https://e3d-online.com/nozzles-for-3d-printer/volcano-nozzles

Extruder- https://e3d-online.com/titan-extruder


Here is where I am getting confusing

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1de93c00WmQLOR&mp=1This is the board i am gonna get, so does it come with drivers? Do i need drivers? If so which option do i need to choose for it to come with drivers that will work with these motors: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/n...nipolar[Bipolar],183-body-length-mm[39,40,48]

Are those motors good quality motors? Would this screen work with it?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/BIGTREETEC/?tag=lstir-20

Thanks, i am sure i will have more questions but thank you!

 

[Wildthing]

So it has been a while sense i posted so here is what i got. I am building a delta 3d printer. I have finished the printer frame and am just starting on the gantry carts and motors. Here is a picture of the printer so far, their is a 36" ruler on the left of the printer for scale. View attachment 146303

Here are the electronics i am planning to use, please let me know if you see anything wrong or see anything that you think won't work well.

Hotend- https://e3d-online.com/v6-all-metal-hotend

I am upgrading it with this- https://e3d-online.com/volcano-upgrade-kit

What type of nozzle should i get? Does it matter at all what material it is or...
https://e3d-online.com/nozzles-for-3d-printer/volcano-nozzles

Extruder- https://e3d-online.com/titan-extruder


Here is where I am getting confusing

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1de93c00WmQLOR&mp=1This is the board i am gonna get, so does it come with drivers? Do i need drivers? If so which option do i need to choose for it to come with drivers that will work with these motors: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolare-0-9deg-36ncm-51oz-in-0-9a-5-4v-42x42x40mm-4-fili.html?mfp=149-step-angle[0.9],148-bipolar-unipolar[Bipolar],183-body-length-mm[39,40,48]

Are those motors good quality motors? Would this screen work with it?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/BIGTREETEC/?tag=lstir-20

Thanks, i am sure i will have more questions but thank you!

Wow , that's going to be quite the printer.

I think for some technical advice GitHub is a good forum to join and ask questions there.

 

[IcedStorm777]

So i am planning on using this motor https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/n...nipolar[Bipolar],183-body-length-mm[39,40,48]

I am planning on using the TMC1230 drivers that come with this control board. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1de93c00WmQLOR&mp=1

Would that work and if so what is the difference between the SPI and DIY type drivers that are listed, thanks!!

 

[Chuppster]

So i am planning on using this motor https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolare-0-9deg-36ncm-51oz-in-0-9a-5-4v-42x42x40mm-4-fili.html?mfp=149-step-angle[0.9],148-bipolar-unipolar[Bipolar],183-body-length-mm[39,40,48]

I am planning on using the TMC1230 drivers that come with this control board. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1de93c00WmQLOR&mp=1

Would that work and if so what is the difference between the SPI and DIY type drivers that are listed, thanks!!

Are you sure you want to use those steppers? It looks like your rig is quite sizable and 51 oz/in isn't a ton of torque...

As for the board you chose, I haven't used it, but it looks like a ripoff of the MKS GenL that I do use. It doesn't appear to be too poorly laid out. As for the drivers, SPI will allow you to configure current and whatnot in the firmware, while DIY would have the steppers work like "normal" old drivers, with the serial interface with the Arduino disabled. The difference is how jumpers are soldered on the drivers. On my first set of TMC2130's I got the "DIY" type on accident and had to convert them over to SPI, and it's a major hassle because of how tiny the pads are on that board. I recommend you go SPI, just make sure to hook up the wiring harness and enable the TMC code in the firmware, or it won't work.

 

[IcedStorm777]

Are you sure you want to use those steppers? It looks like your rig is quite sizable and 51 oz/in isn't a ton of torque...

As for the board you chose, I haven't used it, but it looks like a ripoff of the MKS GenL that I do use. It doesn't appear to be too poorly laid out. As for the drivers, SPI will allow you to configure current and whatnot in the firmware, while DIY would have the steppers work like "normal" old drivers, with the serial interface with the Arduino disabled. The difference is how jumpers are soldered on the drivers. On my first set of TMC2130's I got the "DIY" type on accident and had to convert them over to SPI, and it's a major hassle because of how tiny the pads are on that board. I recommend you go SPI, just make sure to hook up the wiring harness and enable the TMC code in the firmware, or it won't work.

Thank you so much for chiming in! So what you are saying is you do recommend the TMC1230 SPI stepper drivers but you recommend different motors? If so what would be some motors you recommend? I had picked that motor as i heard bipolar motors are better than unipolar and also because 0.9 degree steps can be more precise than 1.8 degree steps. Is that true? ( I'm not trying to be lazy by asking you this but there are just so many stepper motors to choose from). Thank you

Would something like this work better as it has 65.01 oz of force instead of 51?
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/n...step-angle[0.9],148-bipolar-unipolar[Bipolar]

 

[Chuppster]

Thank you so much for chiming in! So what you are saying is you do recommend the TMC1230 SPI stepper drivers but you recommend different motors? If so what would be some motors you recommend? I had picked that motor as i heard bipolar motors are better than unipolar and also because 0.9 degree steps can be more precise than 1.8 degree steps. Is that true? ( I'm not trying to be lazy by asking you this but there are just so many stepper motors to choose from). Thank you

Would something like this work better as it has 65.01 oz of force instead of 51?
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolare-0-9deg-46ncm-65-1oz-in-2a-2-8v-42x42x48mm-4-fili.html?mfp=149-step-angle[0.9],148-bipolar-unipolar[Bipolar]

I may be wrong, but I believe that .9 degree motors are less torque than the 1.8 for a given size, but I'm not positive about that. I run 1.8 on everything and with microstepping I don't think you'll notice a difference. The 65 oz motors would be better, I run 84oz steppers on my MPCNC and 65oz steppers on my little (220x220) printers.

I don't believe unipolar steppers are compatible with our drivers, so bipolar is really the only way to go.

 

[Chuppster]

Thank you so much for chiming in! So what you are saying is you do recommend the TMC1230 SPI stepper drivers but you recommend different motors? If so what would be some motors you recommend? I had picked that motor as i heard bipolar motors are better than unipolar and also because 0.9 degree steps can be more precise than 1.8 degree steps. Is that true? ( I'm not trying to be lazy by asking you this but there are just so many stepper motors to choose from). Thank you

Would something like this work better as it has 65.01 oz of force instead of 51?
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolare-0-9deg-46ncm-65-1oz-in-2a-2-8v-42x42x48mm-4-fili.html?mfp=149-step-angle[0.9],148-bipolar-unipolar[Bipolar]

I just looked at your frame again. You'll probably want the biggest steppers you can find. I'm not even sure a TMC2130 can drive enough current for that monster. I suggest you build your gantry as light as possible too. That thing is going to be a lot of work to get good prints from. Add bracing wherever you can.

 

[IcedStorm777]

I just looked at your frame again. You'll probably want the biggest steppers you can find. I'm not even sure a TMC2130 can drive enough current for that monster. I suggest you build your gantry as light as possible too. That thing is going to be a lot of work to get good prints from. Add bracing wherever you can.

Thanks for the quick reply!!

The reason i was planning on going with NEMA 17 instead of 23 motors was to keep cost down, i also thought i wouldn't need it as the gantrys and effector are going to be REALLY light. I think the size of the printer is kind of misleading as the effector size is going to be the same as a smaller printer like a monoprice delta and the gantry kits are very light. Really the only difference between this and a normal sized delta is that the v slot tracks are longer and the timing belt is much longer. This is why i figured i don't need NEMA 23 motors but if i need them i have no problem trying to pick some up.


Here is why i believe i only need NEMA 17's

I am planning on now going with these as they have 85 oz of torque and are fairly cheap.

So each motor has 85 oz of torque.

Each gantry weighs in at about 5 oz

The effector without the hotend weighs about 1 oz

I can't find the hotend and volcano weight but i assume it is quite minimal lets say 10 oz for both.

(Edit: I just learned that the weight of the combined volcano and v6 is 4.09 oz which would bring the weight from 8.3 oz per motor too around 6.3 oz per motor)

With that math each motor is moving about 8.3 oz ( 5 for the gantry kit and then 1divided by 3 for the effector and 10 divided by 3 for the electronics on the effector) I think a motor with 85oz of torque should have no problem moving that as it is about 1/10 of its torque giving it a 1/10 power to weight ratio. Please let me know of that logic is flawed but from my perspective it should work out fine.

 

[Chuppster]

Thanks for the quick reply!!

The reason i was planning on going with NEMA 17 instead of 23 motors was to keep cost down, i also thought i wouldn't need it as the gantrys and effector are going to be REALLY light. I think the size of the printer is kind of misleading as the effector size is going to be the same as a smaller printer like a monoprice delta and the gantry kits are very light. Really the only difference between this and a normal sized delta is that the v slot tracks are longer and the timing belt is much longer. This is why i figured i don't need NEMA 23 motors but if i need them i have no problem trying to pick some up.


Here is why i believe i only need NEMA 17's

I am planning on now going with these as they have 85 oz of torque and are fairly cheap.

So each motor has 85 oz of torque.

Each gantry weighs in at about 5 oz

The effector without the hotend weighs about 1 oz

I can't find the hotend and volcano weight but i assume it is quite minimal lets say 10 oz for both.

(Edit: I just learned that the weight of the combined volcano and v6 is 4.09 oz which would bring the weight from 8.3 oz per motor too around 6.3 oz per motor)

With that math each motor is moving about 8.3 oz ( 5 for the gantry kit and then 1divided by 3 for the effector and 10 divided by 3 for the electronics on the effector) I think a motor with 85oz of torque should have no problem moving that as it is about 1/10 of its torque giving it a 1/10 power to weight ratio. Please let me know of that logic is flawed but from my perspective it should work out fine.

Well, I doubt your pully has a one inch radius. I think a 16 tooth has a roughly 3/8" radius giving you about 200 oz of pulling force on the belt... in theory. I think the 85's will drive it but the trick is driving it well.

Your main issues are going to be swinging the gantry around, especially if you're doing direct drive. Static torque and dynamic torque are two very different things. You may be speed limited by your stepper choice, I don't know, and I don't have experience with printers that large (or deltas for that matter) to give you. I do know that if your frame isn't perfectly rigid your print quality will suffer. Now, if you're doing everything with a 1.2mm nozzle and keeping your speeds and acceleration low it may not be a big deal. But if you're expecting high quality prints at a small scale it's going to be very difficult to get your frame and gantry rigid enough.

Personally I would not waste my money on v-rollers. I'm all in on linear rails or rods. I've had my experience with V-slot rollers and I'm just not happy. However, I could see Deltas being less sensitive to the imperfections that come with v-rollers than a corexy machine. Again, if you're not looking for high quality detailed prints you'll probably be okay. I'm just trying to help you have realistic expectations for your machine.

 

[IcedStorm777]

Well, I doubt your pully has a one inch radius. I think a 16 tooth has a roughly 3/8" radius giving you about 200 oz in of pulling force on the belt... in theory. I think the 85's will drive it but the trick is driving it well.

Your main issues are going to be swinging the gantry around, especially if you're doing direct drive. Static torque and dynamic torque are two very different things. You may be speed limited by your stepper choice, I don't know, and I don't have experience with printers that large (or deltas for that matter) to give you. I do know that if your frame isn't perfectly rigid your print quality will suffer. Now, if you're doing everything with a 1.2mm nozzle and keeping your speeds and acceleration low it may not be a big deal. But if you're expecting high quality prints at a small scale it's going to be very difficult to get your frame and gantry rigid enough.

Personally I would not waste my money on v-rollers. I'm all in on linear rails or rods. I've had my experience with V-slot rollers and I'm just not happy. However, I could see Deltas being less sensitive to the imperfections that come with v-rollers than a corexy machine. Again, if you're not looking for high quality detailed prints you'll probably be okay. I'm just trying to help you have realistic expectations for your machine.

I am totally fine with the speed being limited, i am just looking for good quality and large prints. I am going to be using a bowden tube which will cut down on weight. I really appreciate you giving me the run down as i don't have a ton of experience. Thanks!

 

[Chuppster]

I am totally fine with the speed being limited, i am just looking for good quality and large prints. I am going to be using a bowden tube which will cut down on weight. I really appreciate you giving me the run down as i don't have a ton of experience. Thanks!

Bowden will help with the gantry. It's good that you're doing a Titan, that will be crucial. I had a long bowden tube on my X5S and I really couldn't get it to work well but I use the PTFE heat brakes, where it looks like you are going all metal so your results may be better. I ended up switching to direct drive for better extrusions.

If your rollers aren't perfect it will affect quality (no matter what the speed). Linear rails will likely be your best bet for high quality, but they will more than double your frame cost. Still, it was worth it for me.

You may want to consider cross-bracing your frame. You can use cables if you want, go corner-to-corner on all three sides. Despite having a lightweight gantry you're going to have large moments whenever the hotend moves.

Where do you plan to mount the extruder motor?

 

[IcedStorm777]

Bowden will help with the gantry. It's good that you're doing a Titan, that will be crucial. I had a long bowden tube on my X5S and I really couldn't get it to work well but I use the PTFE heat brakes, where it looks like you are going all metal so your results may be better. I ended up switching to direct drive for better extrusions.

If your rollers aren't perfect it will affect quality (no matter what the speed). Linear rails will likely be your best bet for high quality, but they will more than double your frame cost. Still, it was worth it for me.

You may want to consider cross-bracing your frame. You can use cables if you want, go corner-to-corner on all three sides. Despite having a lightweight gantry you're going to have large moments whenever the hotend moves.

Where do you plan to mount the extruder motor?

I still need to tune the gantries. Here are a few pictures of the almost finished frame. (There is a yardstick for scale in the back of the picture) I am just about to order the motors and i already have the belts and gears. How do i attach the belts to the gantries? I can't find a way to do that. I am planning on doing some form of cross bracing although the frame is EXTREMELY sturdy. I haven't attached the top part of the frame yet and it is still almost impossible to move the aluminum from 90 degrees upward. I plan on mounting the filament spool and extruder on top of the frame. There will be a wood platform covering part of the top of the printer and it will sit on that.

 

[Chuppster]

For hooking up your belts it looks like you can just have a pair of bolts stick out of your gantry plates and you can zip tie the ends of each belt to the two bolts. There are other ways too if you can think of them.

 

[IcedStorm777]

So with the TMC 1230 stepper drivers i read somewhere that you don't need endstops as when the driver senses resistance it assumes that is the end. Is that true? If not what endstops do you recommend and also do in need them on the top and bottom of each track or just the bottom?

 

[Chuppster]

So with the TMC 1230 stepper drivers i read somewhere that you don't need endstops as when the driver senses resistance it assumes that is the end. Is that true? If not what endstops do you recommend and also do in need them on the top and bottom of each track or just the bottom?

The TMC's do have the ability to sense when you hit an obstacle. You can wire them up as endstops, however I've always used traditional endstops. You can find them on Amazon or Ebay pretty easily.

You only really need them on the top or bottom, not both.

 

[IcedStorm777]

Cool i will plan to get 3 and put them on the bottom. Thanks for the quick reply!

 

[IcedStorm777]

Any idea where i can get 400mm traxxas rods to attach the carriages to the effector?

 

[IcedStorm777]

Would this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52

work with the other bigtreetech motherboard? Is there any technical pros or cons for touch screen displays?

 

[Chuppster]

Would this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52

work with the other bigtreetech motherboard? Is there any technical pros or cons for touch screen displays?

Maybe? Everything I do is 8 bit so I can't be much help. I really like the reprap discount "full graphic display" because it's cheap an effective.