4 sheet 80" wing build thread

[evranch]

Right on, you beat me in my own build thread lol. Gotta post pics or video of how it turned out! Sounds like it flies well. That's awesome that the crow braking worked and that it's hand launchable.

Mine is still stuck where it last was, I have lambs dropping in -30 weather and can't sit down, heat up the glue gun and focus on building. However I do have a plan now:

- small pusher pod mounted in line with the wing. Copy the notch from the stabs and build a regular sized small pod.
- electronics/battery in narrow fuselage mounted to the TOP of the wing. This puts my FPV camera up out of the snow and I think it will look cool, kind of B2 style
- Hinged top of the fuselage for easy access
- two regular size floats on the wings, location to be determined
- crazy concept to take off with the floats and then make a low pass over the runway and drop them to reduce drag in flight. Because why not?

 

[evranch]

So cold today there's nothing to do but build airplanes.

So it turns out the floats line up great along the stabilizer skids and the plane sits nicely on them. Seems like a reasonable place for them. I need to gain 2" to clear an 11" prop, plus sink as mentioned. The question is to make these floats some wire gear or just attach them to the skids. I'm thinking to glue a pair of foamboard strips to the top of each float tall enough to get around 3" lift, and use skewers through the skids to make them removable.

The rear sections of the pontoons should keep me from overrotating and busting the prop? I've only done it once but it's definitely an embarrassing way to lose a prop on a pusher.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

So cold today there's nothing to do but build airplanes.

So it turns out the floats line up great along the stabilizer skids and the plane sits nicely on them. Seems like a reasonable place for them. I need to gain 2" to clear an 11" prop, plus sink as mentioned. The question is to make these floats some wire gear or just attach them to the skids. I'm thinking to glue a pair of foamboard strips to the top of each float tall enough to get around 3" lift, and use skewers through the skids to make them removable.

The rear sections of the pontoons should keep me from overrotating and busting the prop? I've only done it once but it's definitely an embarrassing way to lose a prop on a pusher.
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Yea I would stand it up on something for sure, remember as a pusher as it rotates the prop will drop, as you mentioned

 

[miraspen]

I had lots of motivation to get it done lol. we had a freak warm week in december so i had to take advantage of it. I had never built anything this big and without having flitetest style plans. It was so easy i regret not building it along time ago. I also wanted to test out the crow mix cause i was awaiting a glider to come in that i had planned to use it on. I kinda used this huge wing as a practice run for my 2400mm ranger. Worked, but with only 6 channels i wasnt able to get a full crow on the plane. Ended up not really needing it.

The way i mounted my motor was way to weak and broke 3 times in 3 landings. i need to build some sort of fuselage so i can mount the motor completely solid and then i will be using this wing as a long range test run for the ranger 2400.

The tape and large motor made it hard to balance with a 2200 4s. I also wanted landing gear which i havent figured out yet but think large tundra tires and a tail dragger. So for this i put the motor in front, and i think solved alot of my problems. Maybe just make your pontoons taller? I think this would be more stable then mounting them some other way. and keep your prop strikes down. Im excited to see a wing take off and land in the water!!!

 

[evranch]

Maybe just make your pontoons taller? I think this would be more stable then mounting them some other way. and keep your prop strikes down. Im excited to see a wing take off and land in the water!!!

Still no progress here, too busy. I'm not sure about making the pontoons taller as I think the extra weight will add up fast. You are adding a pair of doubled foam sides for each float, so for every inch of height you add 4x22 sqin of foam - almost 100 square inches!

I do have a plan for raising them up and I might add some BBQ skewer spars for stability once I get down to it if it seems flimsy.

I like the idea of water flying it but would have to do some serious waterproofing! It's too bad that waterproof foam is not available here.

By the way @miraspen, how did you throw yours to hand launch it? Was it possible to one arm it from the leading edge or did you have to go full overhead toss?

 

[miraspen]

yeah just a leading edge toss. motor pulled it right out of my hand. Planning on reinforcing the motor today, if possible i will see if i can get some flight video.

 

[evranch]

Alright she is ready to fly! Instead of lifting the floats on spindly legs, I opted to lift the motor, give it a little downwards thrust angle aiming just forward of the nose, and go for a 10x6 prop which cannot hit the ground due to the backs of the floats. This also gives me a better landing profile if I ditch the floats and toss it, as the prop will not be in full interference with the ground.

To balance out the motor I needed a lot of weight right up front. I had to put a 7700 up front just for the weight! I used the 3M symmetrical velcro that I use on quads for easy balance adjustment. This stuff is super strong and way better than regular velcro.

In comparison to the battery the floats don't make much of a difference. I pinned them to the skids with BBQ skewers with the top of the float touching the bottom of the runner. Should be pretty strong. The step is quite a ways aft of the CG so I'm not sure how they would do on water, but in this application they are really more of a ski than a float.

It's terribly windy out so I did a runup indoors, the thrust angle seems decent as it skids along on the carpet and doesn't rock badly on the floats. Of course, with one motor and no rudder I have zero ground steering, so it's going to be an interesting launch if it doesn't get off the ground quickly!

 

[evranch]

So I got this wing flying today, my knockoff action cam froze to death and so did my right thumb from hauling up elevator the whole time. I think I need to set more reflex and/or more thrust angle. I'm thinking if I set enough up trim (reflex) to hold neutral stick, then I can play with the throttle and see if it tries to push it over. If throttle doesn't affect pitch, the thrust angle is correct, right?

I'll tune it up and try to capture a working video later.

This wing flies amazing compared to the only other wing I tried, the Spear. It tracks straight and has great presence in the air due to its size. Definitely want to do some more flying with it and learn more about wings.

There was no snow left from a huge temperature spike so I had to fly off a frozen pond, the only flat-ish surface around. Ice is awful, especially without yaw control because you can end up going in circles and not reaching Vr for quite awhile. I really had to haul this plane off the ground due to low trim so that didn't help.

I ejected my battery twice by hitting icy bumps before I decided to slap a quick battery box on top, resulting in a successful flight and another repeated flight. The floats completely protect the prop from the ground on rotation, though I broke one float off by skipping the final landing. Ice is very unforgiving, the floats need some bracing for sure.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

hauling up elevator the whole time.

Could also be a nose heavy issue as well, wings are sensitive to balance

 

[evranch]

Yeah, if it was a standard plane I would have said it felt nose heavy. On my first circuit it was flying very fast and didn't like to climb. I felt like I might need full throttle to keep it in the air, but when I finally gained some altitude and backed off the throttle it felt a lot floatier which seemed odd. Still required almost holding almost a quarter stick of up elevator at max trim.

CG was right on the recommended point from the plans, though, and I'm hesitant to move it back before trying other options first for fear of flipping it over backwards. When my battery got away I've never seen a plane spin around the pitch axis so quickly! I did capture that and it will be in my final video

Though there is a second point on the plans 1" back that is recommended for "experienced" pilots, so maybe that is the true CG?

 

[miraspen]

i balanced mine between the dots and needed quite a bit of up trim. But now i also think i forgot to put in any reflex so that kinda explains that.

 

[evranch]

So while bracing up the floats and setting the reflex I found out my trim was reversed due to the way I set up my delta mixer. Helps explain why being at max up trim was not helping at all... oops

I had minimal reflex on my maiden so now I have a significant amount. Looks like the wind is still moderate, so time to take it to the skies

 

[BATTLEAXE]

1" back that is recommended for "experienced" pilots,

That's one inch back from the place you are balanced now?

 

[evranch]

That's one inch back from the place you are balanced now?

Yep, I've got it balanced at the point that's marked for "Average skill" on the plans. "Expert" is one inch aft.

The reflex made a world of difference - first try it flies hands off without touching the trim. I must have got the thrust angle close, because adding throttle lifts the nose but not excessively. I might try to shim for a couple degrees less, I'm still not sure if excessive thrust angles waste fuel or impact handling. On chopping the throttle it noses down hard but establishes a pretty nice glide slope.

I set max rates and tried to roll it, very low roll authority, I quickly turned my roll into a split-S and was glad I had decided to gain extra altitude. The wings didn't fold up coming out of the dive, though, which was pretty good for foam spars and a heavy power package.

I'm really happy with the floats, though I wish I could come up with a way to make them track on ice. It probably would run great on snow. This minimal bracing made all the difference.

Editing video now so you guys can see it fly, or I would be if I wasn't waiting hours to download a new editing package as I'm sick of OpenShot. 3 hours for 1GB, that's rural internet for you.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Yep, I've got it balanced at the point that's marked for "Average skill" on the plans. "Expert" is one inch aft.

The reflex made a world of difference - first try it flies hands off without touching the trim. I must have got the thrust angle close, because adding throttle lifts the nose but not excessively. I might try to shim for a couple degrees less, I'm still not sure if excessive thrust angles waste fuel or impact handling. On chopping the throttle it noses down hard but establishes a pretty nice glide slope.

I set max rates and tried to roll it, very low roll authority, I quickly turned my roll into a split-S and was glad I had decided to gain extra altitude. The wings didn't fold up coming out of the dive, though, which was pretty good for foam spars and a heavy power package.

I'm really happy with the floats, though I wish I could come up with a way to make them track on ice. It probably would run great on snow. This minimal bracing made all the difference.

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Editing video now so you guys can see it fly, or I would be if I wasn't waiting hours to download a new editing package as I'm sick of OpenShot. 3 hours for 1GB, that's rural internet for you.

Cant wait to see it

 

[evranch]

Alright here it is, the flight video.

You can see why I made a thread about looking for a new action cam... also, I didn't realize YouTube had removed their stabilization feature, so I might try to stabilize locally and reupload.

Notice that the floats seem to suction down to the ice as the takeoff roll was much shorter when it got booted into the air by that ice lump. Also, notice how quickly it stops on the first landing as opposed to the second when I came in at a gentler angle. Something is going on with the ice. It's very smooth, except where it's chunky.

Next step is to try an overhead hand launch, I think.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Alright here it is, the flight video.

You can see why I made a thread about looking for a new action cam... also, I didn't realize YouTube had removed their stabilization feature, so I might try to stabilize locally and reupload.

Notice that the floats seem to suction down to the ice as the takeoff roll was much shorter when it got booted into the air by that ice lump. Also, notice how quickly it stops on the first landing as opposed to the second when I came in at a gentler angle. Something is going on with the ice. It's very smooth, except where it's chunky.

Next step is to try an overhead hand launch, I think.

Man that wing will fly so slow huh, has a lot of loft. Nice maiden

 

[evranch]

Thanks, I really like it. It just floats along at 1/4 throttle but doesn't feel "floaty" at all, and if I pour the coal to it it really moves.
Also I love how it actually shows up on the video for once because it's so damn big!

Isn't it weird how the stall speed is low, the acceleration from a stop is high, yet it took 100+ yards of takeoff roll? The floats are covered with tape, and I think the slick tape and slick ice are interacting somehow.

Feels like since it will fly so slow it should be easy peasy to hand launch. Of course it was windy again today, but the next nice day I'm tossing it for sure.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Thanks, I really like it. It just floats along at 1/4 throttle but doesn't feel "floaty" at all, and if I pour the coal to it it really moves.
Also I love how it actually shows up on the video for once because it's so damn big!

Isn't it weird how the stall speed is low, the acceleration from a stop is high, yet it took 100+ yards of takeoff roll? The floats are covered with tape, and I think the slick tape and slick ice are interacting somehow.

Feels like since it will fly so slow it should be easy peasy to hand launch. Of course it was windy again today, but the next nice day I'm tossing it for sure.

Where you live there is wind 350 days a year. I used to build powerline and we spent a lot of time in your area just because of the wind farms, good for power, not ideal for RC planes

I bet if you put a strip of wire down the center of the bottom of the floats you wouldn't have such bad tracking or sticking to the ice

 

[evranch]

Where you live there is wind 350 days a year. I used to build powerline and we spent a lot of time in your area just because of the wind farms, good for power, not ideal for RC planes

I bet if you put a strip of wire down the center of the bottom of the floats you wouldn't have such bad tracking or sticking to the ice

For sure, my farm is actually part of a bid for a wind farm I used to do a lot of kiteskiing before unrelated injuries made me decide I was safer on the ground until I heal up properly.

The wire idea is a good and simple one, I'll give it a shot. Flag wire is super hard and would probably do well as a runner.

DHarkless had flag wire skids on some of these deltas: https://www.flitetest.com/articles/flag-wire-landing-skids and while the pontoons do a good job of protecting the pusher prop, I might try a tractor version with skids. I kind of want to build something like this dorky but cute Verhees delta:

with skids on the wingtips and one high nose skid to lift the prop. This plane takes off and lands at fairly high alpha with that single tall nosewheel, kind of a different way of doing it. Easy to balance and lots of room for batteries...