450 Quadcopter Frame From PolyFlex Pressure Pipe

[PsyBorg]

For the D gains to smooth out the final tune on Kiss I start at 10 and tune the P gains first. then after I think the P gains are good I will use D to smooth out the last little bit of bounce. If the setting gets above 20 I reset back to 10 and do more work with P gains. With Betaflight I start at 20 for D while tuning P and if that gets above 30 I drop it back to 20 and do more on P gains there.

Thanks for the offer but the camera works fine its just the board inside from all the hard knocks had worn down the inside of the case a bit. I could replace the case or just use some electrical tape and shim the inside where the board sits to tighten it up so it can not move around.

 

[kpixels]

All Systems Are Go

YES!

Cheers!
LitterBug

It's Alive! It flew in my living-room for a few, no crashes. I have autotune configured, ready to go if the weather will cooperate. I see why you like DTFc and dRonin. THANK YOU LITTERBUG!



PS Have to milk that big "YES!" for all it's worth.

 

[LitterBug]

OH YES!!!

Cheers!
LitterBug

PS. After you get cofortable with "stock" dRonin, we'll hook you up with the triflight enabled version one of the devs has. :-D Really improves FPV flight and tail handling.

 

[kpixels]

OH YES!!!

Cheers!
LitterBug

PS. After you get cofortable with "stock" dRonin, we'll hook you up with the triflight enabled version one of the devs has. :-D Really improves FPV flight and tail handling.

OH NO!!!


Crashed in left field, it was a foul! After saving the autotune and after about 8 minutes of flying still in leveling mode, tried to go into a dive next thing I know it was upside down, which I did not expect. It was over 100 ft but wouldn't let me recover with throttle. Before this it flew awesome, really love the way it handles.


It actually impacted in this position and bounced but didn't even flip over. As bad as it looks, the only damage I could find was the wires ripped off the usb jack for my video because I didn't have enough slack. The camera mount is aluminum and will bend back into shape. Everything else still works!

I hate to admit this, but there was one flaw in the build that I didn't catch, but probably had nothing to do with the crash. Did the autotune at my house and it seemed to go perfect. When I got to the field to test it I noticed the tail servo tilt jiggling. It seemed from my LOS point of view to smoothed out once I got some forward speed so I decided to go ahead and fly it. When I checked the footage later it was jiggling the whole time. I took a closer look at the tail which is telescopic from 1" down to .75" and there is some slight sideways play that worked it's way loose since the tune. Easy to fix, will do, re-tune and update you...

 

[PsyBorg]

The thing about the auto leveling modes is the off chance you can get them inverted they can not recover back to level. You fly well enough at this point you should stop using any assisted modes. Your flying will be more smooth and will never fight back as you fly. Its also way easier once you get the courage up and just do it.

 

[kpixels]

The thing about the auto leveling modes is the off chance you can get them inverted they can not recover back to level. You fly well enough at this point you should stop using any assisted modes. Your flying will be more smooth and will never fight back as you fly. Its also way easier once you get the courage up and just do it.

It righted itself as it was falling though (bottom heavy), it just wouldn't throttle up. I appreciate you saying that "You fly well enough at this point" and yes, it is a courage thing and I am working on it...

 

[LitterBug]

kpixels,
A couple things to check in your dRonin GCS config:

A) Switch arming
B) on the outputs tab, make sure to check "Motors spin at neutral...."
C) On the Stabilization --> Advanced tab Check "HangTime" box, Set hangtime duration to 5 Sec, and maximum power add to 15%

The "motors spin" option is both a safety thing to visibly see that the vehicle is armed, as well as preventing the motors from completely stopping if you fully chop the throttle.

Hang Time in dRonin is similar to air-mode in *flight, but without some of the really bad issues like bouncing when landing. The timer and power add % prevents flyaways that can happen with *flight by limiting how long the FC can add up to X% power at very low throttle.

D) Could it have been an RX Failsafe? How far away were you?


Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[kpixels]

A couple things to check in your dRonin GCS config:

A) Switch arming
B) on the outputs tab, make sure to check "Motors spin at neutral...."
C) On the Stabilization --> Advanced tab Check "HangTime" box, Set hangtime duration to 5 Sec, and maximum power add to 15%

The "motors spin" option is both a safety thing to visibly see that the vehicle is armed, as well as preventing the motors from completely stopping if you fully chop the throttle.

Hang Time in dRonin is similar to air-mode in *flight, but without some of the really bad issues like bouncing when landing. The timer and power add % prevents flyaways that can happen with *flight by limiting how long the FC can add up to X% power at very low throttle.

Thanks LB, will look at all of these. I can tell you I have some bad habits in the "arming" department. I did set up a switch for arming during dRonin setup but forgot to use it because I'm not used to using switch. It seemed to work without the switch, only using the throttle down right and left to arm and disarm.

D) Could it have been an RX Failsafe? How far away were you?

I was only ~50 ft out when it happened. I need to get a better grip on exactly how or if that is set up.

Good news is when I was tightening up the tail boom I discovered that the tilt servo housing was cracked. Now that makes a lot more sense to explain the jiggle. It's a new servo, so I either cracked it when I cut the flanges off, or more than likely it broke when I crashed the folding tricopters only flight.

Have already replaced with new servo. Besides that jiggle the footage was amazing and it handled so well, I can't wait to try it out now...

EDIT: The crack in the servo housing was from cutting the mounting flanges off with wire snips. I put invisible tape on it at the time but forgot about it and didn't notice on the new build because the tape was invisible he he. On the new servo I used a grinder instead...

 

[kpixels]

A couple things to check in your dRonin GCS config:

A) Switch arming

You hit the nail on the head with "A)"! Looking at the footage I was yawing to the left and dropped the throttle which WAS my disarm sequence. Ahem, I was just testing it's free-fall capabilities, check.

Didn't realize that it was either switch or throttle, not both to arm. Setup had me configure a switch, which I did but then on the arming tab everything was still set to yaw right. I didn't notice "Switch" in that dropdown at first, so It didn't make sense until this time changed "Arm" setting to "Switch", then it change the "Disarm" settings to match.

B) on the outputs tab, make sure to check "Motors spin at neutral...."
C) On the Stabilization --> Advanced tab Check "HangTime" box, Set hangtime duration to 5 Sec, and maximum power add to 15%

The "motors spin" option is both a safety thing to visibly see that the vehicle is armed, as well as preventing the motors from completely stopping if you fully chop the throttle.

Done! Will have to get used to these new settings. Can't wait to try it out now. Thank you LB...

 

[LitterBug]

I still manage to get confused and flip my arming switch instead of flight mode some times.... Talk about a rude landing. ;-) LOL


Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[kpixels]

Good news is when I was tightening up the tail boom I discovered that the tilt servo housing was cracked. Now that makes a lot more sense to explain the jiggle. It's a new servo, so I either cracked it when I cut the flanges off, or more than likely it broke when I crashed the folding tricopters only flight.

Have already replaced with new servo. Besides that jiggle the footage was amazing and it handled so well, I can't wait to try it out now...

EDIT: The crack in the servo housing was from cutting the mounting flanges off with wire snips. I put invisible tape on it at the time but forgot about it and didn't notice on the new build because the tape was invisible he he. On the new servo I used a grinder instead...

I hope everyone is doing good.
Apparently the tail jiggle was not from the tail boom or the cracked servo, I'm stumped now. I couldn't figure out how to undo the first autotune after I changed the servo so I went completely thru the setup again and performed new autotune dance. Two times now, before autotune it seemed to fly real smooth with the exception of slight oscillation in the roll axis. After autotune, both times tail starts jiggling before I even take off. Both times the first flight after saving autotune was with same battery used to autotune still mounted, nothing physically changed. It's not really noticeable moving forward LOS but the footage is useless and you can see it when hovering.

 

[LitterBug]

kpixles,
What are you using for the pivot? Can you post up some detailed pictures of the rear motor, servo, pivot mechanism you are using? Sounds like either oscillations, looseness, or binding, which leads to oscillations. If you export your config from GCS to a uav file, I could take a look to see if I see anything obvious too.

You should reset, (by clicking the three default buttons) then save all the settings on the "stabilization" tab prior to doing an autotune. You don't want to stack the autotune results. Going through the setup does not necessarily reset the tune on the stabilization page.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[kpixels]

kpixles,
What are you using for the pivot? Can you post up some detailed pictures of the rear motor, servo, pivot mechanism you are using? Sounds like either oscillations, looseness, or binding, which leads to oscillations. If you export your config from GCS to a uav file, I could take a look to see if I see anything obvious too.

Hi LitterBug, Thanks for the fast reply! I'm using the FliteTest Tough Tilt and it's solid. You can pick the tricopter by the servo and there is zero movement. I just completely went thru it because I installed the new servo which you probably know is fairly involved. I've been using the tough tilt for several years. I tighten the pivot shaft until there is some binding then I back it off until it swivels freely. I will try backing it off some more though.

You should reset, (by clicking the three default buttons) then save all the settings on the "stabilization" tab prior to doing an autotune. You don't want to stack the autotune results. Going through the setup does not necessarily reset the tune on the stabilization page.

I tried clicking default but it didn't look like anything changed, plus I wasn't sure which tabs to default, now I know.

One more thing. After I was done with autotune I changed my switch back but I was not sure if I should uncheck the Autotune Module or leave it active. My guess is it should be turned off, not sure. Thanks for all the help LitterBug, I really appreciate it...

EDIT: I reset like you said and it is smooth now. I bet I did stack autotunes and the first autotune was trying to compensate for the cracked servo. Something else, I think one of the motors is bad because it's making high pitch squeal and getting hot. I have new motors coming for it. Aside from the jiggle, this thing is freaking nuts. I can't wait to show you some great footage from it...

 

[kpixels]

Photos of Poly Tricopter and FliteTest ElectroHub Tricopter

TriHarder Poly Tricopter


The cover is made out of thick duck tape with another piece stuck front to front inside except the edges where it attaches to the frame. It's a very tough skin for protecting flight controller during crashes and from prop wash hitting baro, also allows air to circulate thru it.





TriHarder vs 1stTri


My trusty old FliteTest Anycopter ElectroHub. Running off Naze32 Rev5 and every time it crashes, something breaks.


Finally replaced servo that locked up last summer after a few years of crashes. Didn't have wires strapped back down in the back but I wasn't flying it.

 

[LitterBug]

kpixels,
Glad you are getting some air time. Busy with family plus all the cray cray weather, I'm not gettin' any. >:-{

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[kpixels]

kpixels,
Glad you are getting some air time. Busy with family plus all the cray cray weather, I'm not gettin' any. >:-{

Thanks, I wouldn't call it quality air time though. Same deal here >:-{ for the most part. You mentioned before that you were testing different runcams. Could you recommend the best fpvcam setup for a Chameleon with KISS V2 (VTX/OSD)?

 

[LitterBug]

kpixels,
Best??? Hmmm. not sure there really is a best, and I have not found an "ideal" cam yet. Just about every camera will work, but be prepared to adjust settings based on your flying conditions and prefrences. Some of it will depend on what size camera will fit on the frame. Some of the newer frames will not work with the larger cameras. My buddy is building a Chameleon like what you are planning. He is using the Mr. Steel PDB/OSD. He usually runs Tramp HV VTXes and the magic wand, where I use mostly RMRC/FXT. I am building a Krieger225 with all KissV2, and using a Diatone SP3 OSD/VTX. Build has been stagnated for a few months waiting on good weather. Just needs to be tidied up.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[kpixels]

kpixels,
Best??? Hmmm. not sure there really is a best, and I have not found an "ideal" cam yet. Just about every camera will work, but be prepared to adjust settings based on your flying conditions and prefrences. Some of it will depend on what size camera will fit on the frame. Some of the newer frames will not work with the larger cameras. My buddy is building a Chameleon like what you are planning. He is using the Mr. Steel PDB/OSD. He usually runs Tramp HV VTXes and the magic wand, where I use mostly RMRC/FXT. I am building a Krieger225 with all KissV2, and using a Diatone SP3 OSD/VTX. Build has been stagnated for a few months waiting on good weather. Just needs to be tidied up.

All the major parts came today, frame, FC, ESCs and motors. Was going to get this camera for it;
store.flitetest.com/flite-test-special-edition-runcam-swift-2-2-5mm-lens/
I guess I'm getting the Steele PDB from FT also. I can't seem to find any of the goodies you mentioned, like the diatone, in stock anywhere.

Got this present for the DTFc/tricopter per your advice. Thanks!

I'm still waiting for new motors for it, just wasting my time how it is now. It's the first motor out of a few dozen that was bad. I tried lubing it per PsyBorgs tips, but it's just a bad motor, plus it has been in a few crashes.

 

[kpixels]

Tricopter Test Flight On Dark Dreary Day

Test Flight After PID Tuning dRonin Poly Tricopter

Replaced the motors on this tricopter to give it a fair chance. I probably should have studied a bit more about the Autotune module in dRonin before attempting to use it. It sounds pretty straight forward, but some things were not obvious before reading up.

First mistake was in assuming that going thru setup would reset PID values created by autotune. New to dRonin I wasn't wasn't familiar enough with the defaults to realize setup didn't change those values back. Ended up stacking autotunes. Thanks to LitterBug for pointing this out.

Next mistake was not removing oscillations before doing an autotune. Autotune works if you start out with oscillations but in my case the numbers looked pretty crazy. It looked good flying line of sight but the video footage was ruined with jello and vibration.

You might be wondering as I was, "Why autotune if you can tune out the oscillations yourself?" In my case there was an oscillation in the roll axis that I couldn't eliminate no matter what numbers I tried. Back to the books and came across PWMSync which my SimonK ESCs was a good candidate for.

When I looked at my Output tab in dRonin, under Output Update Speed my Update Rate was set to 50Hz (for planes?). Changed it to PWMSync and the oscillations disappeared. So from a smooth hover performed the autotune in my garage (zero wind) and here is some footage of how it's flying now. Will still tune some more and focus on RC rates and flying smoother...

 

[LitterBug]

Wow, I never realized how sharp the line was right there between town and country. That looks like a nice field! Do you have to be an AMA member to fly there? My eldest son lives right over by the big university that needs no introduction.

Our field " 39.952645, -83.751603 " has been around since the 70s and it's open to the public. That seems like a heck of a long trip for a bike (pedaling?). I could never find that much time. That would be a beautiful trip though and if you have a kayak you'll definitely want to check out the whitewater drops they replaced all of the low-head dams with. That's another "maybe someday" thing for me.
Ken

Hey Ken,
Is there still flying over at Buck Creek? I don't see it on the FRIA list and didn't want to show up and fly if it isn't a valid spot anymore. I head over to UD to pick up and drop off my son frequently and figure I could stop there to fly if it is still allowed.

Cheers!
LitterBug