A beginners guide to multirotors (written by a beginner)

Balu

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Ok, next step was to learn about motors and propellers. This is quite hard for a beginner like me, who has never touched one of those. Virtual information can only bring you that far, but experience will make you level up :)

So if someone could check those two posts at the top, that would be nice.

BTW - if some of you experienced guys think that this is useful information for beginners, perhaps a moderator can stick it to the top?
 

FinalGlideAus

terrorizing squirrels
I'm working with Craftydan on my top tips page and will put in a link to this page I'm sure or something similar. Ill keep you posted.
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
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FGA,

Actually you're working with more than just me . . .

Balu,

If you're open to help with review (seems like you have been so far), and willing to keep it maintained, It looks like a good idea.

Might I also suggest you and FGA chat about how to link your two threads together.

I think (and I believe I'm not alone) that there's value in both types of threads -- a quick look like FGA's to get the new guy to see practical concerns, and a deep dive to hit specific issues to enough depth. Anything beyond that (or for those who have a hard time wading through others research) the forum can handle.




So I need buy-in on three things from *both* of you guys:

- You're willing to take comments in technical content and form -- You don't need to change on any person's whim, but consider the comments you get and use input to make your threads better. We've got an active community here they're a great resource to draw on.

- You're willing to work together -- these two threads, written for a specific goal, and written to cooperate will look polished and professional as a whole. two of these written independently, sitting right next to each other looks amateur and you might even find yourselves giving conflicting advice. This isn't a writing competition, it's a first cut at lending a hand, and the two of you together can do more together than you ever could separately.

- You're willing to keep this up-to-date -- Balu, I'll admit this is more of a burden on you than FGA, but I need both of you to be willing to go in and make improvements as the hobby progresses. Some threads like these in other forums still focus heavily on breaking in brushed motors and care and feeding of NiCads -- still valid content, but not relevant. I need you to be willing to keep this thread alive by breathing new content in, as needed.


You're not alone in this, you should have the whole community behind you, but as focal points I need these things from each of you to expect this to be a success.

So what do you say guys?
 

Scratch

New member
I really like the idea of a sticky for beginners. I'm a beginner myself and it took me lots of time and questions here to figure out how to get in the air. It would be nice to get a "beginners perspective" on how to get started in MR's. Sometimes I'd read something about one aspect of them, and I'd have to stop and Google a certain abbreviation or term just to keep reading.

I know I've seen them somewhere, but I can see a couple things that I think would be nice to have included.

One is a list of common acronyms or abbreviations like FPV, ESC, FT, HK etc...
Another is a link to manuals for stuff like TX/RX, FCB, etc. I know I've stumbled onto them on hobbykings site, but I had to ask for the link and couldn't find them on my own. Maybe my google-fu needs some work...
 

Zwierdo

Junior Member
A randomly chosen (actually the first listed) HK motor (NTM Prop Drive 28-30S 800KV / 300W Brushless Motor) has a maximum current of 20 A and can provide 300 W of power.

[The following is a little confusing, because the numbers don't add up as I expected. Perhaps someone can give me a hint on what I'm forgetting.]
In school you learn that Watts / Amps = Volts, so this motor can be used with 300 W / 20 A = 15 V - which would be a 4 cell battery.

If you know the voltage because you have already decided to go for a 3 S battery, you can calculate how much current will flow. Watts / Volts = Amps, so 300 W / 11,1 V = 27,01 A. [Which is greater than the 20 A that it is supposed to be?]
I'm a beginner myself, but I think I see what you are missing here.

The maximum that this motor can take is either 300 Watts (Due to cooling, etc.), or 20 Amps (Size of wire, etc.).

For a 4 cell battery, you could choose any prop that gets you at about 20 Amps, and you would be on the cutting edge power that this motor could produce.

If you went with a 3 cell battery (for a max voltage of 11.1 Volts) you could still only pick a propeller that would give you a maximum current draw of 20A, or you risk damaging your motor (I'm guessing that you could melt wires/solder joints, but I'm not sure what the damage would be for over current). So, 11.1 Volts * 20 Amps = 222 Watts.

So, you could not use this motor at its full potential with a 3 cell pack. It is only capable of producing 222W at 11.1V
 

FinalGlideAus

terrorizing squirrels
Craftydan, Balu.

Happy to agree to the above although my job will be rather easy compared to Balu. Ill have another read through your sections and comment where needed. I have almost finished the re-write of my top tips To incorporate everyone's feedback. As has been suggested, I'm making it less specific about certain things so it doesn't go out of date easily. I have also removed any links.

While still trying to keep things looking professional I do think my preferred idea would be three stickies. One with my top tips for a quick glance at it all, one with various links for how-to's like a YouTube link to balancing a prop and lastly a sticky with Balu's info for those who really know nothing about RC and need the very basics like terminology and what Balu covers. If you try to put all that info one thread you will probably loose most people after the first page. If someone already has RC experience but nomultirotor experience (like I did) they won't want to read all of Balu's info but completely green pilots may want to. Having them seperate will allow them to choose.
 

xuzme720

Dedicated foam bender
Mentor
Craftydan, Balu.

Happy to agree to the above although my job will be rather easy compared to Balu. Ill have another read through your sections and comment where needed. I have almost finished the re-write of my top tips To incorporate everyone's feedback. As has been suggested, I'm making it less specific about certain things so it doesn't go out of date easily. I have also removed any links.

While still trying to keep things looking professional I do think my preferred idea would be three stickies. One with my top tips for a quick glance at it all, one with various links for how-to's like a YouTube link to balancing a prop and lastly a sticky with Balu's info for those who really know nothing about RC and need the very basics like terminology and what Balu covers. If you try to put all that info one thread you will probably loose most people after the first page. If someone already has RC experience but nomultirotor experience (like I did) they won't want to read all of Balu's info but completely green pilots may want to. Having them separate will allow them to choose.
It will also be better to keep all the relevant info as people comment and suggest added so it stays right in the first post or two. That way, the info they are looking for is right in an easy to find place, rather than sorting through pages and pages of discussion. Dan may have already brought that up...If not, I just wanted to suggest that to keep it relevant and useful as an information repository.
I also really like the third thread for video tutorials idea!
 

Balu

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@FinalGlideAus: I've added some of your tips - just the short form - and linked to your post. It looses the text flow a little. "Possible Sticky for this multirotor page" is a bad title though. Not sure if you can still change that.

@Craftydan: my first post says that I will update it with suggestions on technical content and form. As a beginner my main reason to write them was to get input on if I got something completely wrong or if need to learn something more. Being German my "form" might be a little off too, so just suggest changes. :)

As for updating: Of course I'm willing to do that. But I'm very new to this hobby and don't know if I will be as enthusiastic in a year as I am now. Not sure if someone else could take over then, but if everything else fails, you can still remove the sticky bit and let it die in the abyss of old threads.


At the moment it would be nice to have someone confirm Zwierdo's thoughts on the motor numbers. It sounds reasonable to me, but we are both mostly guessing :). If nobody steps in, I will remove the calculation part on Watts, Ampere, etc. until I figure out how it works in the real world.
 

xuzme720

Dedicated foam bender
Mentor
He is correct in what he said, Balu. It's a matter of taking the numbers and making sure you don't have any parameter overloaded, for instance in the case Zwierdo brought up, going to a 3 cell overloaded the amp rating on that motor. One of the reasons it's said that higher numbers of cells are more efficient. It's not always the most efficient but in many cases it does help.
 

FinalGlideAus

terrorizing squirrels
Balu, once we get our posts finalised they will become sticky posts and stay on the top of the forum. The post name will then be changed to something more appropriate. Just concentrate on finishing your article and I will do some more proof reading along with others.
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
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Balu,

I don't need a lifetime commitment, but this isn't a passing fancy -- you're writing something that represents all of us. I suppose all I need is you to be willing, while you're around, to keep up with this. If you decide you want/need to move on, Send me a PM to me or one of the other Mods to let us know you're dropping support soon, so we know we need to convince someone else to take up your baton and run with it.

Keep working on the article, and I strongly suggest you and FGA chat together about this (check out or PM mailboxes for that -- should work well for passing ideas that haven't matured enough to post in public). Both of you, think about writing a quick outline to see if you can re-arrange content to line up with what someone needs (first things first), and where links would be useful.

As I said in FGA's thread, Don't take this comment process as we think you're doing poor work -- not so at all! we wouldn't have even considered this if we thought this was shoddy work. Keep up the good work! As you get close to finished, as FGA stated, I'll rename the threads and sticky them. We can talk about the names for the matched threads as that approaches.


BTW, Guys, if you have a section that you think needs specific attention for review, edit the thread and Highlight the text to something obvious (like Bold red or orange), and add a note to the end of the thread. most of us are reading through them, but we might glance over what you're concerned about and we all miss it (just something to make review a little more interactive).


As for the calculations, you've stumbled on a few valuable relationships in these motors:

- Power is not the limiting factor for motors. Current and bearing load are. Bearing load is based on thrust and speed -- most are okay on thrust, but some motors can overspeed the bearings and burn them out if you use too high of a voltage (check the motor's voltage ratings). For current, think of it this way -- that little segment of wire in the motor doesn't care what the voltage is (as long as it's not ridiculously high), but the more current the more heat. The more heat, eventually the insulation burns out and you get shorts in the coil (and smoke, and a dead motor).

- If the bearings and ESC can take it, higher voltage at the same current can give you proportionally more power out (20% more voltage -> 20% more power for the same current). The only big Gotcha here is the same prop at a higher voltage will draw a much higher current. If you step down a size on prop (rule of thumb: 1" on length or 2" on pitch) you should be back in the neighborhood of the current at the higher power, but the smaller prop can generate *more* thrust than the bigger prop at lower voltage.

- Some motors are mis-spec'ed to rate only power -- It's convenient for comparing motor A to motor B, but useless for sizing the ESC and battery to the motor. In these cases expect that max power to be measured/spec'ed from the highest spec'ed voltage, then back calculate the max current (I = P/V). Spec your ESC and batteries on this current, and size the prop to draw something less than this.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
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Daunting task. Excellent read. This post is a showcase for how our community works and why I am proud to be a part.

I'm in.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
I would like to add two thoughts.

1. The more your copter weighs and the higher you fly, the more you risk your insurance.
2. The more ridgid your rotors, the more risk you have to your fingers. Nylon rotors hurt and may cause you to run for a bandaid. CF rotors may cause you to have to run to the hospital. Nylon rotors can remove fingers but just are not as likely to. Ridgid rotors tend to balance better and be better for video but when learning how to fly, stick with nylon and graduate to CF or glass reinforced. They are cheaper and less likely to send you to the hospital with your finger in a plastic bag on ice.
 

FinalGlideAus

terrorizing squirrels
Balu, I'm sending you a PM with my revision of your article. No major changes. Anyway let me know what you think.
 

xuzme720

Dedicated foam bender
Mentor
Thought's on the APM 2.5?
There isn't much difference in layout from the 2.0 to the 2.5. The 2.5 does have some interesting improvements over the 2.0, though. I think the 2.6 has some better features over the 2.5 but does not have the compass integral to the board like the 2.5.
From the website:
APM 2.6 is a revision of APM 2.5 for an external magnetometer (compass). This revision of the board has no onboard compass, which is optimized for vehicles where the compass should be placed as far from power and motor sources as possible to avoid magnetic interference, such as your copter. APM 2.6 is designed to be used with the 3DR GPS uBlox LEA-6 with Compass, so that the GPS/Compass unit can be mounted further from noise sources than APM itself. APM 2.6 requires a GPS unit with an onboard compass for full autonomy.
 
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Justin

Senior Member
Wow! Amazing explanation!:applause: I am very impressed with all of your descriptive work. I will be applying some of your tips to my first multirotor, the FliteTest Knuckle H Quad, which I purchased and assembled early January of this year. I can remove this post if you want to add on to your amazing thread.