A place to put all of your diy micro (indoor size) quad things!
well i think you would have to go with something like the CC3d atom.. but the issue comes with brushless motors.. so you are stuck with what has been built with brushed motors in mind. so until super small burshless mmotors hit the market.. you are stuck with 4 motors. and i think the CC3d atom is plenty small for that.. but you did say a proto x? the atom would be to big for that id think tho.. but if you talking nano qx the cc3d atom would work i bet.
chris.
narcolepticltd
I unbuild stuff regularly
Mr. Cleanflight himself is currently working on his own board in the same size as the 'standard' we're seeing with the other acro units available, and it is supposed to have the provisions for what you're looking for
. Just keep your ears open and we'll see how long it takes to become a production unit.
octodreamerFNG
Member
ok so lets say i go with a board designed for brushed motors, can an octo fly as a quad and just have the booms and motors paired off into 4 pairs of 2... so wired like an X but each leg would be essentially 2 of the same motor/blade/direction. the way i see that being done would be to split each of the power leads from the motor side of the ESC and y them to 2 seperate motors on each pair of booms.
???
do i have that right or am i an idiot
Mr. Cleanflight himself is currently working on his own board in the same size as the 'standard' we're seeing with the other acro units available, and it is supposed to have the provisions for what you're looking for
very cool. would love to take an octo and shrink it as small as possible. i figure a super lightweight octo would be a nice stable platform for the new micro FPV setups out there. even better if i could figure out a way to tilt the motor mounts a bit to kick the prop wash outward to make it more stable.
would love to put on some goggles and go flying around the house with something that small.
Brushed motors are much easier to drive than brushless, the ESC's for them are pretty easy to make, it's basically just a mosfet and some resistors.
AlienWii has a board in development for an octo but who knows when it will be ready: http://alienwii.com/alienwii-brushed-stm32-octo-fc/
Afromini and CC3D Atom both only support 6 outputs (I know the afromini only supports 6, I'm 90% sure the Atom only supports 6)
So right now your best bed would be something like a nanowii or even an acro Naze32. Then making your own board for the motor drivers. It's a pretty simple circuit and oshpark could crank out a couple boards cheap. Heck you could design the frame as the board and get them cut...but the price for the board goes up as it gets bigger.
I'd suggest reading through woodsturning's thread about his frames on RCGroups: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136987 And the Afromini thread on RCGroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2163400 I'm pretty sure there was an octo or two in woodsturning's thread and the Afromini thread has some discussions and sample circuits for motor drivers.
AlienWii has a board in development for an octo but who knows when it will be ready: http://alienwii.com/alienwii-brushed-stm32-octo-fc/
Afromini and CC3D Atom both only support 6 outputs (I know the afromini only supports 6, I'm 90% sure the Atom only supports 6)
So right now your best bed would be something like a nanowii or even an acro Naze32. Then making your own board for the motor drivers. It's a pretty simple circuit and oshpark could crank out a couple boards cheap. Heck you could design the frame as the board and get them cut...but the price for the board goes up as it gets bigger.
I'd suggest reading through woodsturning's thread about his frames on RCGroups: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136987 And the Afromini thread on RCGroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2163400 I'm pretty sure there was an octo or two in woodsturning's thread and the Afromini thread has some discussions and sample circuits for motor drivers.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
Thanks! I like it! I have been looking for something like this and I might try to make something with this! Thank you so much!
octodreamerFNG
Member
wow, just spent most of last night reading that giant thread on RCgroups... so much info.
thanks for the link and the help... much appreciated.
from what i can find its the same board as CC3d and supports 8motors just made smaller by getfpv.
however, i sorta regret looking now.. i found all the hate from the fork... looks like a lot of trash talking, back stabbing, lies? who knows what all went down.. i stop reading.. to negative for me.
chris.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
Which board are you talking about?
The info I've found on the Atom is hard to follow. It sounds like you can reconfigure the RX inputs as PWM outputs to drive more than 6 ESC's/Servos (since it only has 6 "normal" outputs). But I can't tell what kind of RX inputs are available when you reconfigure those as outputs. You may have to use a serial input (spektrum sat/sbus) or you may be able to use PPM. I just don't know their hardware well enough to say for sure...the PPM input settings are a mess due to the limited timers on the F1 chip and the hoops they had to jump through to add oneshot - once you add in oneshot things get extra confusing...though on a micro brushed setup oneshot isn't likely to be as big of a deal as it is on a brushless setup.
BTW - on a only slightly related note last night on IRC Peabody124 and SimonK were talking about the possibility of having a FC just drive the ESC directly. Basically right now FC's send a PWM signal to the ESC which then interperts that signal and in turn generates a new PWM signal that actually drives the FETs that power the motors. He's saying instead of having the ESC do that work just have the FC generate the PWM for the motors directly. It's kind of taking the oneshot idea a step further by removing a layer of processing that can introduce latency. Things then got kind of crazy with Peabody speculating about the fun that could be had by tweaking the PWM rate on the fly to make the motors play music while flying
Oh what fun times we live in
As for the OP/Tau fork. Yeah, things got ugly and there's still a lot of bad blood. I found OP interesting before the fork...but when I looked into it the community around it really turned me off. The community around Tau is so much friendlier and open I'm really impressed by it. OP on the other hand seems to be forgetting more and more about the "open" part of their name and for me that's a huge turn-off and kills my interest in what they've got going on. But multiple options and competition are IMHO always very good things. Good forks live on and create a better overall ecosystem, bad forks die and don't go anywhere. But this kind of religious war is always dangerous to get involved in. It's like PID's - there's no right answer just the right answer for each individual and they have to make up their own mind what that answer is.
BTW - on a only slightly related note last night on IRC Peabody124 and SimonK were talking about the possibility of having a FC just drive the ESC directly. Basically right now FC's send a PWM signal to the ESC which then interperts that signal and in turn generates a new PWM signal that actually drives the FETs that power the motors. He's saying instead of having the ESC do that work just have the FC generate the PWM for the motors directly. It's kind of taking the oneshot idea a step further by removing a layer of processing that can introduce latency. Things then got kind of crazy with Peabody speculating about the fun that could be had by tweaking the PWM rate on the fly to make the motors play music while flying
11:23:09 PM peabody124 in could be diminishing returns. physical latency from blades w/o having a control loop in the ESC is probably still capped in the 10-20+ms range. taking control loop down another 0.5 ms might not make tangible differences, but it would be fun to try and doesn’t cost any logic on the FC side
11:23:34 PM peabody124 plus then you can easily play music while flying by tweaking the PWM output period
11:23:45 PM peabody124 FLYING A-TEAM THEME FTW
11:24:33 PM Simon-- yes!
11:24:42 PM Simon-- that would solve the flash space problem
11:24:48 PM Simon-- plus you could then have 4ch playback
11:25:11 PM peabody124 oh man. so many chiptunes
11:25:27 PM peabody124 solve the flash space problem = create it caues not enough on board music
11:25:30 PM Simon-- somebody is going to make a 5.1 copter
11:25:36 PM peabody124 we can stream music over telemetry even
11:25:41 PM Simon-- haha
11:25:44 PM peabody124 starts designing taulink with audio in
11:25:48 PM sfabris lol
11:25:53 PM acceleroto streamed chiptunes would rule.
11:26:01 PM sfabris Killer feature...
11:26:08 PM peabody124 oh crapola. i can even do that on brushed sparky already
11:26:15 PM acceleroto haha
11:26:16 PM acceleroto DO IT
11:26:22 PM acceleroto Think of the press
11:26:23 PM peabody124 in that case only 2 timer banks so just stereo music
11:26:27 PM peabody124 good enough though
11:26:30 PM sfabris lullaby for kids directly from quadcopter
11:26:37 PM peabody124 i’m going to bed before i think this is a finish-before-morning project
Oh what fun times we live in
As for the OP/Tau fork. Yeah, things got ugly and there's still a lot of bad blood. I found OP interesting before the fork...but when I looked into it the community around it really turned me off. The community around Tau is so much friendlier and open I'm really impressed by it. OP on the other hand seems to be forgetting more and more about the "open" part of their name and for me that's a huge turn-off and kills my interest in what they've got going on. But multiple options and competition are IMHO always very good things. Good forks live on and create a better overall ecosystem, bad forks die and don't go anywhere. But this kind of religious war is always dangerous to get involved in. It's like PID's - there's no right answer just the right answer for each individual and they have to make up their own mind what that answer is.
yeah, i bet that is how they did it. ohh.. I want the A-team theme.. i know you could use the motors to make sound.. but i was looking at other ways to have a a sound file on mine.. via mini mp3 player/hack that iv seen on the net which could work on the quad.
but i figure id would try this mod on my mini but it would be better suited to a 450 + size, which i plan on building as i want a larger MR for AP.. and would be fun to have sound come from it. :d my nephews would get a kick out of it.
but if the FC/motors could do it that is a freebie. man that is just kick butt!
yeah, you are right.. all the drama is never good for a project. we will just have to see what happens i guess.
chris.
but i figure id would try this mod on my mini but it would be better suited to a 450 + size, which i plan on building as i want a larger MR for AP.. and would be fun to have sound come from it. :d my nephews would get a kick out of it.
but if the FC/motors could do it that is a freebie. man that is just kick butt!
yeah, you are right.. all the drama is never good for a project. we will just have to see what happens i guess.
chris.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
One question.. where are you getting all of your info?
Me? Mostly reading forums and "talking" (irc/email/PM's) to the people involved
Fast reading ability seems to run in my family, my dad can read a full novel (sometimes 2) in a night and retain it well enough to have a discussion about it weeks later. I'm not as fast of a reader as he is...but I can still tear through a big forum thread and retain the knowledge a little quicker than what I suspect is average But a good bit of it also comes from experimenting and not being afraid of making mistakes or destroying my toys The motors playing music thing had me cracking up last night when they were discussing it. It's the same idea as how ESC's make motors play tones on startup...I just hadn't though of the possibility of modulating the PWM rate while driving the motor in flight like that. It's not the speed the motor is turning at that makes the music, but rather the PWM rate that the motor is being driven at. (that's why emax ESC's have a horrible high pitch whine by default unless you increase the PWM rate - the default rate is within some peoples range of hearing while the higher rate isn't. Actually...I wonder if that's why dogs seem to like my multis so much...the PWM rate is well within their hearing range so maybe our motors are like dog whistles to them....)
Of course the speed of the motor can be used to play music as well:
But you would't want to do that while flying
Changing the PWM drive doesn't affect the motor speed...it would probably still affect flight a little bit since the lower the PWM the slower the motor will respond to changes...but it should still be totally flyable while playing music.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
This is great! I always wanted to go to the danger zone with my quad!
Spastickitten
Senior Member
Keep it up though!
Last edited:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9996__ADH30S_Micro_brushless_outrunner_6100kv.html
i think this is smallest yet, 15.00 a pop. laughs.. one would think they get cheaper the smaller you go.. but i see my logic fails here.
check out how small these, so cute.. i wonder if they are the same ones getfpv are using..
chris.
i think this is smallest yet, 15.00 a pop. laughs.. one would think they get cheaper the smaller you go.. but i see my logic fails here.
check out how small these, so cute.. i wonder if they are the same ones getfpv are using..
chris.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
Is it worth the weight?
i have no clue.. just searching to see what is on the market is all im doing.. nano tri-coptor could be cool.
Suitable for LAMA2 and similar micro helicopters.
Weight: 2.6g
Kv: 6100rpm/v
Size: 17 x 13mm
Max current: 2A
Current: 4.2V/0.4A (No load)
Shaft: 1mm
Shaft length: 5mm
Prop: 3020
Test data;
GWS 3020
Voltage: 4.2V
Current: 2.7A
Watts: 12.6W
Thrust: 34g
Efficiency (g/w): 2.7
Note: Please be careful when using this product. Due to its size and delicate nature it is easy to overload this motor while using a GWS3020 prop. Only use single cell Lithium Polymer batteries and never draw more than 2.7Amps for more than 10 seconds.
at 2.6 grams, heh.. one of my EMX 1806 came in at 21g. heh.
chris.
Suitable for LAMA2 and similar micro helicopters.
Weight: 2.6g
Kv: 6100rpm/v
Size: 17 x 13mm
Max current: 2A
Current: 4.2V/0.4A (No load)
Shaft: 1mm
Shaft length: 5mm
Prop: 3020
Test data;
GWS 3020
Voltage: 4.2V
Current: 2.7A
Watts: 12.6W
Thrust: 34g
Efficiency (g/w): 2.7
Note: Please be careful when using this product. Due to its size and delicate nature it is easy to overload this motor while using a GWS3020 prop. Only use single cell Lithium Polymer batteries and never draw more than 2.7Amps for more than 10 seconds.
at 2.6 grams, heh.. one of my EMX 1806 came in at 21g. heh.
chris.
Spastickitten
Senior Member
Thanks anyways!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17686024&postcount=462 im thinking he may of used the brushless motors i posted?
chris.
chris.
Similar threads
- Sticky
