Abandoned...and our hobby....

[basslord1124]

Not quite a fun topic but I didn't where else to put this...

So wife and I had been finding some streaming stuff to watch that would interest us and we stumbled across a show called Abandoned on Hulu. It's a series from 2016 that follows skateboarder Rick McCrank as he travels to some abandoned places and interviews locals...and then he ties in his skateboarding passion into the series as well. My wife and I are not skateboarders BUT we really like the show and abandoned things. We basically binge watched the whole thing and thought it was a pretty good series even though it looks like they've stopped after the 1st season.

One thing I noticed during the series is a few times in a few different locations, he would talk to local skateboarders who would find an unused concrete pad from a torn down structure in their city and basically set up a small skateboarding area. The skateboarders would fix up their own ramps and find other materials to make a nice little DIY skateboarding area for them to enjoy. And they would always say that a week or 2 later, the city would come by and demolish what they had created.

This made me wonder if this is something that could happen to our hobby with the government getting involved, Remote ID, etc. We have a nice quiet place where we could fly our planes/quads, and then over time it gets taken away by city officials. Since some folks have negative views of skaters, it seems that some folks have also established negative views of drones, our hobby, and those associated with it. I know sometimes urban development does happen and take out flying fields. But in this show, these were already abandoned/torn down areas that skaters were re purposing for their interest and was not bothering anyone.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Reminds me of Duga!

 

[Vimana89]

Not quite a fun topic but I didn't where else to put this...

So wife and I had been finding some streaming stuff to watch that would interest us and we stumbled across a show called Abandoned on Hulu. It's a series from 2016 that follows skateboarder Rick McCrank as he travels to some abandoned places and interviews locals...and then he ties in his skateboarding passion into the series as well. My wife and I are not skateboarders BUT we really like the show and abandoned things. We basically binge watched the whole thing and thought it was a pretty good series even though it looks like they've stopped after the 1st season.

One thing I noticed during the series is a few times in a few different locations, he would talk to local skateboarders who would find an unused concrete pad from a torn down structure in their city and basically set up a small skateboarding area. The skateboarders would fix up their own ramps and find other materials to make a nice little DIY skateboarding area for them to enjoy. And they would always say that a week or 2 later, the city would come by and demolish what they had created.

This made me wonder if this is something that could happen to our hobby with the government getting involved, Remote ID, etc. We have a nice quiet place where we could fly our planes/quads, and then over time it gets taken away by city officials. Since some folks have negative views of skaters, it seems that some folks have also established negative views of drones, our hobby, and those associated with it. I know sometimes urban development does happen and take out flying fields. But in this show, these were already abandoned/torn down areas that skaters were re purposing for their interest and was not bothering anyone.

I've never been into the skating hobby but always respected it. What you are saying absolutely can and probably will happen with our hobby too.You won't believe how many videos are on youtube of kids/teen/young adults skating and not bothering anyone, and some joysless old schmuck or schmuckette always comes up and messes with them. Not just telling them to leave and insulting them, but actually trying to grab and "confiscate"(steal) their board/camera/posessions, and in some cases trying to physically fight them. It's all part of that borg-like mentality that fun is anathema and anyone having it needs to assimilate or die. These are really the same attitudes driving the FAA proposals at the core, not logic, not safety...to some extent money and personal gain, but it's also this at it's very core...they are just haters.

They are petty, cynical, taciturn little authoritarians with small and shallow minds trying to stomp out "childish" things like fun and self-actualization. They need a world of lack and limitation, haves and have nots, and general misery, where they can hold some position or resource or leverage in general over the rest of us-which is the only way they can actually ever be "important" and "special", because in a more equal world where they did not hold that leverage, they wouldn't be important, special, or successful, and nobody would like them or want anything to do with them because they would not be fun or pleasant to be around and have no redeeming personality qualities as far as kindness, intelligence, creativity, etc.

 

[redbarton]

It's entirely possible this could happen to a once authorized airfield. And, once an authorized field is no longer recognized by the FAA, it can't be one again. Yet another very devious part of the NPRM...

 

[Vimana89]

I'm sorry if the negative tone of my post might have been a little abrasive or harsh or ranty/off topic. You might see me as the guy with a chip on his shoulder who always wants to make things a David vs Goliath battle, but I actually hate to have to keep repeating these things like a broken record.I actually never wanted to talk about those sorts of things on this forum or get political/philosophical at all and just enjoy and discuss RC planes flight and design and aerodynamics...this authoritarian rant stuff is things that bother me in almost all other aspects of my life, and I picked up this hobby to get away from it and get my mind off it, and I wanted to avoid even discussing it in this community... but I can't...because the storm troopers/orcs of mordor/borg whatever you want to call them are now encroaching into our hobby and I can't stand by. I guess I gotta be a Mua'dib of RC now whether I like it or not.

 

[cranialrectosis]

I'm sorry if the negative tone of my post might have been a little abrasive or harsh or ranty/off topic. You might see me as the guy with a chip on his shoulder who always wants to make things a David vs Goliath battle, but I actually hate to have to keep repeating these things like a broken record.I actually never wanted to talk about those sorts of things on this forum or get political/philosophical at all and just enjoy and discuss RC planes flight and design and aerodynamics...this authoritarian rant stuff is things that bother me in almost all other aspects of my life, and I picked up this hobby to get away from it and get my mind off it, and I wanted to avoid even discussing it in this community... but I can't...because the storm troopers/orcs of mordor/borg whatever you want to call them are now encroaching into our hobby and I can't stand by. I guess I gotta be a Mua'dib of RC now whether I like it or not.

Ditto...

The more power the feds get, the more EVERYTHING in life becomes political.

 

[basslord1124]

...It's all part of that borg-like mentality that fun is anathema and anyone having it needs to assimilate or die.

This part of what you wrote just really struck a chord with me...

Mainly b/c I know people close to me (not naming names) who have questioned the benefit of me doing RC planes. Their argument basically is "why waste money on that if you can't make money from it" or "why do it if I can't make money from it". Umm, b/c it's a fun hobby and I think we all deserve to have "fun" sometimes. Of course, I'm convinced most outside the hobby don't "get us" anyways.

Don't worry about your post @Vimana89 . This type of stuff gets to me too. I don't mind discussing it sometimes as mature folk, but the one thing I won't do is get in long debates/arguments over a topic. I'll tend to end that stuff before it starts escalating. My inner "peace child" self takes over and says life is too short to be arguing over silly stuff, one needs to relax and enjoy life.

I've been seeing a lot of separation here in the US in recent years. Certain issues are causing folks and groups to be divided and complain amongst each other. It makes me sick to see things like that. And now our hobby is starting to see it with some federal government intrusion. People are just getting too serious and easily offended anymore.

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

I wish I could just reserve the right to not get involved and go on with my life, there's more to life than politics and I'd love to be able to enjoy that fact. The real "drones" are the ones who refuse to understand not everything has to be political and refuse to let me go on in peace. Most of it's just entertainment anyway, after the media gets involved.

I'm a college student of Anglo-Scottish ancestry living in LA, Kalifornia so you can imagine how anything I say or do can and will be made into a political snafu.

 

[The Hangar]

This part of what you wrote just really struck a chord with me...

Mainly b/c I know people close to me (not naming names) who have questioned the benefit of me doing RC planes. Their argument basically is "why waste money on that if you can't make money from it" or "why do it if I can't make money from it". Umm, b/c it's a fun hobby and I think we all deserve to have "fun" sometimes. Of course, I'm convinced most outside the hobby don't "get us" anyways.

Don't worry about your post @Vimana89 . This type of stuff gets to me too. I don't mind discussing it sometimes as mature folk, but the one thing I won't do is get in long debates/arguments over a topic. I'll tend to end that stuff before it starts escalating. My inner "peace child" self takes over and says life is too short to be arguing over silly stuff, one needs to relax and enjoy life.

I've been seeing a lot of separation here in the US in recent years. Certain issues are causing folks and groups to be divided and complain amongst each other. It makes me sick to see things like that. And now our hobby is starting to see it with some federal government intrusion. People are just getting too serious and easily offended anymore.

I totally agree.

 

[Vimana89]

This part of what you wrote just really struck a chord with me...

Mainly b/c I know people close to me (not naming names) who have questioned the benefit of me doing RC planes. Their argument basically is "why waste money on that if you can't make money from it" or "why do it if I can't make money from it". Umm, b/c it's a fun hobby and I think we all deserve to have "fun" sometimes. Of course, I'm convinced most outside the hobby don't "get us" anyways.

Don't worry about your post @Vimana89 . This type of stuff gets to me too. I don't mind discussing it sometimes as mature folk, but the one thing I won't do is get in long debates/arguments over a topic. I'll tend to end that stuff before it starts escalating. My inner "peace child" self takes over and says life is too short to be arguing over silly stuff, one needs to relax and enjoy life.

I've been seeing a lot of separation here in the US in recent years. Certain issues are causing folks and groups to be divided and complain amongst each other. It makes me sick to see things like that. And now our hobby is starting to see it with some federal government intrusion. People are just getting too serious and easily offended anymore.

Yeah, well said. Too much salt and too much division, I'd rather just chill and enjoy the hobby. Hopefully the hobby comes out of this more or less intact and we can just get back to that.

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

Yeah, well said. Too much salt and too much division, I'd rather just chill and enjoy the hobby. Hopefully the hobby comes out of this more or less intact and we can just get back to that.

Hooah to that

 

[FoamyDM]

I'll have to look at the series abandoned. thanks @basslord1124
To all here: This is a community we love. The FT crew seeded this thing base on friendship, fun, love, and fellowship to build a supportive community. And I think in part it's why we choose to put our Aero-modeling efforts here. I know that's why I do. And I agree that none of us here wish to darken it with our feelings of defeat by an entity that we have no say or control over, and who has shown through the proposal put forth, they didn't even know we existed. (I can't believe non of them fly model aircraft.)

The reasons for communities are to share common ground, interests, knowledge, failures and successes, and generally be supported by folks going through similar things. The military has forum for vets and PTSD Victims for that reason... It helps us cope. I see this downer thread as a community seeking support during an uncertain time. I feel it too. Big time.

I can build and fly some ramshackle Ultra-light in the air where ever, and when ever without a license. (and risk possibly killing myself). If my kids were ready... they can go to it.
I can put my son, if/when he is ready, in an aircraft as a pilot. at 14. and possibly put him to his death. (unlikely but still it is a risk).
I can sign up to control a 2 ton vehicle at 16 yrs old.
I can give my life for my country at 18 yrs old. (to fight over money and oil on foreign soil)
I can drink myself to death at 21 yrs old.
BUT model aircraft are too disruptive because an anonymous tip reported, "I think I see something... a drone! yeah that's it."

Should we all just start sending in a random anonymous tips?... I think i see an RC CAR on the run way!.... to airport officials and see what other pass times the FAA can destroy? a golfer hit a plane with a golf ball. time to ban more fun. I wish I were able to make political satires cartoons. This is worth one

My girlfriend commented that I play and awful lot of games. (board games, DND, RC Cars, Rc Airplanes etc.) I replied you do what you like with your free time I'll do what I like. I asked her to tell me what she does with her free time... and she quickly quieted down. I have always performed a job, where mistakes cost $10-100k and at worst, lives. I also make enough money with my day job to not be needing to make more. Life is serious enough. I am grateful that there are folks who can focus on this hobby to make it their livelihood enough to make parts so I don't have to spend my time that way, if I don't want to.

 

[FoamyDM]

I am a maker at heart. the harder it is, the deeper I tend to dive in. If this in-fact dies as a hobby... I feel sorry for the ultralight community.
Does anyone know how many full-pilots responded? I thought the EAA was going to support with it's members too. Heck half of them are pilots through model aviation.

 

[Vimana89]

I'll have to look at the series abandoned. thanks @basslord1124
To all here: This is a community we love. The FT crew seeded this thing base on friendship, fun, love, and fellowship to build a supportive community. And I think in part it's why we choose to put our Aero-modeling efforts here. I know that's why I do. And I agree that none of us here wish to darken it with our feelings of defeat by an entity that we have no say or control over, and who has shown through the proposal put forth, they didn't even know we existed. (I can't believe non of them fly model aircraft.)

The reasons for communities are to share common ground, interests, knowledge, failures and successes, and generally be supported by folks going through similar things. The military has forum for vets and PTSD Victims for that reason... It helps us cope. I see this downer thread as a community seeking support during an uncertain time. I feel it too. Big time.

I can build and fly some ramshackle Ultra-light in the air where ever, and when ever without a license. (and risk possibly killing myself). If my kids were ready... they can go to it.
I can put my son, if/when he is ready, in an aircraft as a pilot. at 14. and possibly put him to his death. (unlikely but still it is a risk).
I can sign up to control a 2 ton vehicle at 16 yrs old.
I can give my life for my country at 18 yrs old. (to fight over money and oil on foreign soil)
I can drink myself to death at 21 yrs old.
BUT model aircraft are too disruptive because an anonymous tip reported, "I think I see something... a drone! yeah that's it."

Should we all just start sending in a random anonymous tips?... I think i see an RC CAR on the run way!.... to airport officials and see what other pass times the FAA can destroy? a golfer hit a plane with a golf ball. time to ban more fun. I wish I were able to make political satires cartoons. This is worth one

My girlfriend commented that I play and awful lot of games. (board games, DND, RC Cars, Rc Airplanes etc.) I replied you do what you like with your free time I'll do what I like. I asked her to tell me what she does with her free time... and she quickly quieted down. I have always performed a job, where mistakes cost $10-100k and at worst, lives. I also make enough money with my day job to not be needing to make more. Life is serious enough. I am grateful that there are folks who can focus on this hobby to make it their livelihood enough to make parts so I don't have to spend my time that way, if I don't want to.

Dude, the false tips thing sounds like a great idea to actually get them sick of enforcing it. Much easier and more effective than my idea trying to down delivery drones with combat foamies(though that would still be funny), and you can get in a lot less trouble, cause for one you didn't damage property, and if they call you on making it up, plausible deniability "well I THOUGHT I saw something that looked like a drone, mighta been a plastic bag in the wind?". Imagine if tons of the RC community just started calling and wasting their time like that.

 

[The Hangar]

I can build and fly some ramshackle Ultra-light in the air where ever, and when ever without a license. (and risk possibly killing myself). If my kids were ready... they can go to it.
I can put my son, if/when he is ready, in an aircraft as a pilot. at 14. and possibly put him to his death. (unlikely but still it is a risk).
I can sign up to control a 2 ton vehicle at 16 yrs old.
I can give my life for my country at 18 yrs old. (to fight over money and oil on foreign soil)
I can drink myself to death at 21 yrs old.
BUT model aircraft are too disruptive because an anonymous tip reported, "I think I see something... a drone! yeah that's it."

Government corruption... When people high up want something, they will get it. Chances are they will do it in some sly way using a loophole so you’re unable to convict them of doing something wrong but the intentions are clear. Unfortunately where there’s money there’s a way, and the companies wanting drone delivery have the money... Us citizens don’t matter in that case.

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

I am a maker at heart. the harder it is, the deeper I tend to dive in. If this in-fact dies as a hobby... I feel sorry for the ultralight community.
Does anyone know how many full-pilots responded? I thought the EAA was going to support with it's members too. Heck half of them are pilots through model aviation.

I'm with you, I've always been a tinkerer at heart. So many people waste time consuming when I'd rather be producing. There's still other rc hobbies to look at too that aren't under attack. I'm probably going to be getting into boatbuilding soon just because I like variety. I never have just one hobby and that's probably why it takes me so long to finish anything.
Do note I'm not saying "airplanes are getting banned let's all find new hobbies." I'm saying that whatever happens none of us has to stop building. Ever.

 

[Vimana89]

Dude, the false tips thing sounds like a great idea to actually get them sick of enforcing it. Much easier and more effective than my idea trying to down delivery drones with combat foamies(though that would still be funny), and you can get in a lot less trouble, cause for one you didn't damage property, and if they call you on making it up, plausible deniability "well I THOUGHT I saw something that looked like a drone, mighta been a plastic bag in the wind?". Imagine if tons of the RC community just started calling and wasting their time like that.

I'm going to moderate myself here a bit and say I'm joking. It's funny, but as it was kindly pointed out to me, the people responding to this will not be the FAA but the sheriff, and I don't condone wasting their time, which is also illegal.
So no, don't do this. I don't encourage it. Instead I'll say, it would be nice to see some cops commenting to the FAA on this from the perspective of these laws being a waste of time to enforce.

 

[basslord1124]

Around my area, our big things for the law enforcement are drug overdoses and theft (so they can buy their drugs). I think folks flying drones and RC planes are the least of their priorities.

 

[redbarton]

I'm want to be hopeful the FAA will make changes to the NPRM. However, I don't think the number of comments submitted will be sufficient to be very impactful. 52K is pretty dismal, if there are in fact 100's of thousands of people in the hobby. If you didn't submit something, shame on you...

Honestly, I can't conceive how they are going to enforce this anyway. The local PD's won't have time. Are they going to put drones in the air to monitor the other drones? Once those monitor drones are up there, what else are they going to start watching?

(I watch too much sci-fi.)

 

[cranialrectosis]

what else are they going to start watching?

Radio transmissions?

How hard would it be to have cell towers monitor for our signals and triangulate them like a shot detector?