Anyone used APM 2.6 / Arduplane on RC Aircraft?

StuartPB

Senior Member
I have a spare APM flight controller and a Ublox Neo M8N GPS unit from one of my old quadcopters and I've reflashed the firmware on the flight controller to Arduplane 3.4.0 to have a look at the settings and what it can do. I use Mission Planner to configure the flight controller.

I'm really tempted to try using this flight controller in one of my planes, the HK Skymaster V2. I like the idea of the extra security some of the failsafes offer but I don't want to become reliant on them either. I guess I'm just interested in experiencing using the APM with fixed wings.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has tried Arduplane with or without GPS on their planes? How did you find the experience and would you recommend trying it?

Cheers,

Stuart
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
I love it on my FPV FT Blunt Nose Versa Wing. Having it in loiter or RTH mode at altitude, I can put the TX down, put my goggles on, etc. It makes it much less stressful in transitioning from LOS to FPV.

I've played with the autonomous features, but mostly use the GPS for loiter/RTH while transitioning from LOS to FPV. I originally built it thinking I could also use it as a trainer for beginner pilots with the geo-fence and FBW-B altitude limited mode, but never actually did that as it's easier to just use a trainer cord and an appropriate airplane which offers more flexibility for training.

Here's a photo of it: https://goo.gl/photos/EJTpkeP8q4AEQWvy6
 

ZoomNBoom

Senior Member
Ive been experimenting with arduplane on the pixhawk,but the experience shouldnt be too different. Im pretty impressed by it. I did find it a bit daunting initially, so many things you can configure and tweak, especially if you also want to play around with autonomous flight and landing but the result is extremely solid, waypoint navigation accuracy even in windy conditions is remarkable.

One of the many little things I love about it, is launching. I have it configured so it detects a hand launch and powers up by itself after a configurable time (100ms in my case) and then autonomously climbs. Which is perfect for my slightly underpowered pusher delta, no risk of injury and no need for a buddy to throw it for you. The first few throws it feels weird throwing it without power, but it hasnt failed once. Well, except when i forgot to arm it :p.
 

ZoomNBoom

Senior Member
Oh, I just read in 3.4.0 on APM, EKF filter isnt supported. Only on pixhawk. That may actually change the experience a fair bit. The EKF filter is one of the things that truly impressed me, how well it coped with things like varying wind, or when my airspeed sensor pitot tube was clogged but the estimations where still darn accurate. If you just want to loiter or RTH, loss of EKF is probably not a big deal though.
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
I love it on my FPV FT Blunt Nose Versa Wing. Having it in loiter or RTH mode at altitude, I can put the TX down, put my goggles on, etc. It makes it much less stressful in transitioning from LOS to FPV.

I've played with the autonomous features, but mostly use the GPS for loiter/RTH while transitioning from LOS to FPV. I originally built it thinking I could also use it as a trainer for beginner pilots with the geo-fence and FBW-B altitude limited mode, but never actually did that as it's easier to just use a trainer cord and an appropriate airplane which offers more flexibility for training.

Here's a photo of it: https://goo.gl/photos/EJTpkeP8q4AEQWvy6

I'm not yet set up for FPV but that is where I want to go at some point, so knowing Ardupilot helps with that is good, thanks. I like that Blunt Nose Versa, I wouldn't mind trying a wing.



Ive been experimenting with arduplane on the pixhawk,but the experience shouldnt be too different. Im pretty impressed by it. I did find it a bit daunting initially, so many things you can configure and tweak, especially if you also want to play around with autonomous flight and landing but the result is extremely solid, waypoint navigation accuracy even in windy conditions is remarkable.

One of the many little things I love about it, is launching. I have it configured so it detects a hand launch and powers up by itself after a configurable time (100ms in my case) and then autonomously climbs. Which is perfect for my slightly underpowered pusher delta, no risk of injury and no need for a buddy to throw it for you. The first few throws it feels weird throwing it without power, but it hasnt failed once. Well, except when i forgot to arm it :p.

The open spaces where I can fly here are more often than not a little breezy so the extra stabilization would be good. At present I have the balsa Skymaster V2 and I'm waiting for the Tiny Trainer speed build kit so I can get that built up and they are both light. I really like the hand launch autonomous climb, I'd never have thought of that! I don't know if I'd trust an auto landing, I've seen a few videos of planes landing with that feature and they seemed to come down pretty heavily.
 

ZoomNBoom

Senior Member
Its overkill if you just want stabilization, and to be honest, Im not impressed by the "acro mode", which is manually flying the plane, with just gyro compensation. I may not have configured mine correctly, I tried it a few times and didnt like it, so I never use it. I either fly full manual or one of the (semi) autonomous modes.

As for autonomous landing, I havent tried that either, and with my current plane, I dont intend to. For that to work reliably, I think you realistically need a sonar, otherwise changing air pressure will make the altitude reading too unreliable for a nice landing. 1 or 2 meter difference is enough to ruin a landing flare. Unless perhaps you have a very docile plane that lands easily/slowly. Mine is so loaded with gimmicks and test equipment its at least 50% overweight, has the wing loading of a lead brick and therefore, difficult enough for me to land, so I'll just do that myself :). I may give it a try on my next build though and its nice that in theory, it might be able to land itself if my radio dies or something.
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
That's the thing, I'd rather learn to fly well manually without aids than to learn and make use of aids then becoming reliant on them. When I was learning to fly my quadcopter, I became reliant on flying in GPS/Atti mode but I then had to learn all over again when flying manually. I don't want to make that mistake again.

I'm still interested in trying Ardupilot though, just so I can knock it off the list of things I have tried :) I've just got my hands on a Durafly Retro Junior so until I get the Tiny Trainer sorted I'll be flying that as my first step. I've heard good things about the Junior so hopefully it will serve me well as I start to gain experience. I'll try Ardupilot with the balsa Skymaster at some point in the near future, but it's because I enjoy tinkering.
 

ZoomNBoom

Senior Member
oh, I figured you had quite some flying experience already. Yeah, I wouldnt use it as a way to learn to fly (or rather: avoid having to learn ;) ). Although if properly set up, it could be helpful. The FBWA and FBWB modes work like those 'safe' flight controllers, limiting bank and pitch and autoleveling. Thats pretty useful for someone totally new to the hobby, to help them lean orientation and the like. But it doesnt teach you how to fly (and you really should have some experience before you can tune it properly).

Given you already have more then some exposure to the hobby, orientation is not going to be much of a problem, so just go fly that Junior, leave the gps stuff for later. Ive never flown it but it cant be bad. I restarted the hobby with the durafly pioneer, and I enjoyed flying it for many years after until I gave it to a friend as his first plane.
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
Yep I'm still a noob when it comes to fixed wing, dying to get some flight time in though!! ;)

I've been tempted more than a few times to get the Skymaster out for my maiden flight but I really don't want to be bringing it home in pieces. If the same happens with a foamie I can live with that better. When I got into multi rotor I rushed everything and it cost me more in the long run. So I'm reining my enthusiasm in this time:D
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
I concur with the advice everyone gave for keeping it simple when learning. This adds a whole other level of complexity and just getting something built, configured and in the air will be a bit of a challenge if you add APM to the mix. Horizon Hobby does make a trainer plane with these same flying aids built in, but again, I wouldn't necessarily rely on them exclusively. I still think that finding an experienced pilot who would love to help you is the best way to get in the air.

This is the model HH has with GPS assisted flight modes: http://www.horizonhobby.com/product...ircraft/specials/sportsman-s-plus-rtf-hbz8400
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
That's my intention while I'm learning, to keep it simple. The APM will get a go in one of my planes but that's a good way off yet before that happens. I was just curious to hear about other's experiences of it. I'd love to go to a club and get some help but I don't own a car, I have a motorbike, so with the nearest ones being some distance from me I don't think the cops would appreciate me toddling down the dual carriageway with a plane strapped to my back:D None of my friends are into the hobby either so learning solo is the only option I have. I'm hoping that the many years I've spent flying on flight sims and the appreciation for flight dynamics etc. will stand me in better stead than being totally clueless. I know the routines it's just translating the knowledge into physical actions and being able to get a feel for the planes and controls that will be the major learning curve for me I think (and hope).
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
Right, good plan. I doesn't hurt to reach out to the nearest club to see if there are members in your area. I'm a member of a club which flies from a field ~20 miles from my home, but have talked to people who live near me who were interested in flying and I met up with them nearer to home. It hasn't happened in my case, but if someone asked if they could ride along with me to the club field, I wouldn't object if I had space.
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
I'm looking into setting up a club for kids where they can come and build planes and then learn to fly them in our park so I'll definitely be approaching a couple of the clubs to see if anyone would be willing to help the kids learn. I'll try and kill two birds with one stone while I'm visiting and see if anyone near me are members and wouldn't mind a passenger. The club idea will hopefully become part of the range of activities the social enterprise I work for offer to local kids as an alternative to negative behaviour and attitudes. I'm not too worried about learning solo if I have to, but I do realise having help if it's needed is better. I'd enjoy the club aspect too. :)
 
I concur with the advice everyone gave for keeping it simple when learning. This adds a whole other level of complexity and just getting something built, configured and in the air will be a bit of a challenge if you add APM to the mix.

It definitely adds a lot of complexity. I recently put an APM 2.6 and GPS in an old FT Storch. It has been a lot of fun and has brought new life to a plane I was kind of bored with. Now that it is set up it would make a great trainer. I had my girlfriend flying it the other day and she looked like a pro after a few minutes. The biggest issue is getting it set up and flying correctly. There are a lot of parameters that can/need to be adjusted. This is definitely not something a novice pilot should do. You really need to be able to fly the plane manually in order to get it set up properly. But once it is set up it works great. I got mine dialed in enough that it will land on its own in auto mode.
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
I remember setting up APM for the first time on my quadcopter and the options available were almost overwhelming then, especially as I was a total noob to multirotor at that time. It was fun but I did make a few mistakes along the way. I never had a bad crash resulting in loss of gear though, apart from replacing a couple of landing legs and props. Dialling in the PID gains took a bit of effort but once it was done the results paid off. I'm looking forward to trying my APM in fixed wings at some point. When I switched from APM to Naza on the quadcopter I made a mistake of becoming reliant on the assisted flight modes to fly it, then when I switched to manual I felt a little out of control. I had to take time again to get myself out of bad habits, so I won't be doing that again with the APM in fixed wings. Nice to have the features but they won't be crutches either.
 

Shashika

New member
It definitely adds a lot of complexity. I recently put an APM 2.6 and GPS in an old FT Storch. It has been a lot of fun and has brought new life to a plane I was kind of bored with. Now that it is set up it would make a great trainer. I had my girlfriend flying it the other day and she looked like a pro after a few minutes. The biggest issue is getting it set up and flying correctly. There are a lot of parameters that can/need to be adjusted. This is definitely not something a novice pilot should do. You really need to be able to fly the plane manually in order to get it set up properly. But once it is set up it works great. I got mine dialed in enough that it will land on its own in auto mode.

can you share more information regarding the build ,i also try to make a plane using APM 2.6