Beware of Horizon Hobby's SAFE system!

[razor02097]

Wow, this is a great story! I'm glad you decided to repair your model! Flying RC is a test of the "never give up" mentality, This day is much easier to pick up and keep going... a long time ago a plane crash could put someone off the field for weeks or even months! The fear of crashing is what drove me away from flying almost 15 years ago. I only recently got back in the hobby.

That delta is probably going to be tougher to fly than a trainer airplane... As you have found out the hard way relying on an electronic safety isn't a good idea... Please don't take this the wrong way but have you ever though about getting a simulator or maybe building a small trainer? Both would give great experience and could help you work on the orientation.

 

[Flashdan]

Delta Ray R.I.P.

I too have had problems with the Delta Ray, back in March 2015 I was flying my DR in experienced mode when at the bottom of a loop it kept on going straight down! Mine was in several pieces too much to glue back , I bought a replacement fuselage and put it back together. Yesterday I took it out for an early morning flight (yes you've guessed it) it did exactly the same thing, it pilled itself into the ground this time it was accompanied with smoke from a burnt out motor I did detect my dx6i beeping just before impact indicating a loss of bind I think. I must add that I have lots of models and never had a problem with my Spektrum. The Delta Ray is now in the bin!

 

[bhursey]

Sorry for your loss. When I started there was no such thing as safe in the 90s. Ever 5 flights or so when starting ended in a partualy distroyed plane. I would rebuild them at night.. As long as the wing is intact they are fixable. I know exactly this orintation part. I crashed twice my balsa trainer because of that..

 

[Capt_Beavis]

The DX6i beeping doesn't indicate lost a lost bind. It usually indicates that the TX lost power. Mine had some of the battery tensioners flatten out and I was loosing signal in flight multiple times. I bent them back into shape and it has been fine. I have been flying a Delta Ray since December of 2014. I destroyed my first rather quickly trying to do a loop way to close to the ground but I have had my second since January and I fly it 3x a week some weeks. My only frustration is that I think it needs a little nose weight. It caries a mobius nicely though.

 

[Flashdan]

The DX6i beeping doesn't indicate lost a lost bind. It usually indicates that the TX lost power. Mine had some of the battery tensioners flatten out and I was loosing signal in flight multiple times. I bent them back into shape and it has been fine. I have been flying a Delta Ray since December of 2014. I destroyed my first rather quickly trying to do a loop way to close to the ground but I have had my second since January and I fly it 3x a week some weeks. My only frustration is that I think it needs a little nose weight. It caries a mobius nicely though.

Thanks Cap but as I explained Ive never had a problem with other models, the circumstances were the same as the last crash so I can only assume that the fault was with the DR.

 

[VanFlyer]

Why Should they

I owned a Horizon Hobby SAFE enabled Delta Ray for about two months and it was an amazing airplane until yesterday! I was out flying it in ideal conditions at my local flying spot. I had flow the Delta many times with great success and it did help me learn to fly, however yesterday it let me down with disastrous consequences.

The SAFE system on the Delta is great and had worked perfectly for many flights. I used it with my DX6 as recommended by the Horizon Hobby experts. During my previous flights I was able to progress in my flying quickly due to my faith in the SAFE system and the Panic Recovery button. I felt comfortable flying in expert mode because I knew if I got in trouble I could simply push Panic Recovery and return to straight and level flight. It was a great aid in my flying progress.

Yesterday was a normal flying session except for the fact that the weather was absolutely perfect. I did all of my pre-flight checks and range tested the radio/plane link. Everything seemed fine and it was for the first battery. I got a full 10 mins of flying in and made a successful landing. However things changed for my second battery.

On the second battery I took off as normal and made my pattern turns in expert mode as I have been doing. The SAFE system gave me the confidence to fly in expert just as it is designed to do. The plane was only at about 300 yards our and probably 100 yards up and in clear sight when I turn it towards myself. The turn was a little steep and the left wing dipped a little low and started to stall. I at first try to recover myself to improve my piloting skills but I lost my orientation with the plane headed towards me. This is not the first time I felt that the plane was having an issue so, as before, I simply pushed the panic button. Every single time prior to this it did exactly what it is supposed to do and leveled the plane out after which I took back control and continued my flight. This time was different.

After pushing the Panic Recovery button the plane did not respond. At this point it is going into a dive. I had time to push the Panic button one or two more times before it smashed into the ground! My Delta Ray is now destroyed and beyond repair. At first I was not concerned because I had heard about the legendary customer service of Horizon Hobby but after spending 45 mins on hold I was told that no replacement or repair would be covered and it was suggested that I but another one.

I realize that the Panic Recovery worked 9 out of 10 or maybe even 99 out of 100 times but it only takes one failure to completely destroy your plane. I realize that systems such as SAFE may have failure rates but if so I feel that Horizon Hobby should pick up the slack and cover replacements or repairs due to system failure.

This incident has shaken my confidence and made me decide to never rely on the SAFE technology again. It definitely does help you learn when it works but if you experience a catastrophic failure as I did then any gains will be erased and you will be our several hundred dollars depending on which model you buy. I will not buy SAFE products anymore and am going to learn the rest the old fashion way, slow and steady progress. It is too bad that SAFE is not 100% or that Horizon Hobby won't cover failures as it could really sky rocket a new pilots learning rate, but as it is currently the SAFE will only give you false confidence that will be shattered upon a system failure. I am just glad I didn't buy a more expensive SAFE model or have a camera on board. Beware of SAFE, beware of Panic Recovery and I would recommend that you forego them and just learn slow and steady at your local club or under the instruction of someone more experienced. Forget this teach yourself to fly SAFE business, it will most likely end with you being frustrated and out several hundred dollars.

Why should Horizon Hobby cover your pilot error? There is no evidence that SAFE failed. There is evidence you were out of your element. When you tried to save the plane, you likely exasperated the situation and used up precious time that SAFE could have used to save your plane. You probably dived the plane into the ground with the wrong stick inputs. BTW, that plane is fixable with a hot glue gun.

 

[VanFlyer]

Thanks for the support! I don't know what happened, most likely a momentary loss of connection due to signal traffic or obstruction as I have used the panic button many times to save the plane in similar situations and it responded quickly and perfectly every time. I realize that SAFE is not 100% and that is a valuable lesson to remember. Anyway, I am happy to report that the ol' D-Ray is back. After extensive hot-glue, tape and some foam grafting from one of my foam cadavers (RIP Bix 3), she is about 3/4 of an inch shorter and has a tendency to roll right but she is flying!

View attachment 45350

After the crash it was bad. While the engines and props looked fine in the picture they were not. The crash was so forceful and perfectly perpendicular to the ground that the props were driven all the way back into the motor cowlings. The screws holding the motors in were embedded in the back of the props. I had to take it all apart, straighten the motor shafts a bit, cut some of the cowling off, and surgically remove the props. The battery was found about 20 yards from the rest of the debris and it was slightly bent. It appears to be alright and will take a charge but now lives in a lipo bag when not in use. Anyway, she is back in business and good to go. I am absolutely amazed that the plane went back together and flies, unreal how tough these foamies are. Thanks again for the advice and support!

Right motor looks out of alignment.

 

[daxian]

dont suppose you bothered to check the date on this thread ???