Bigger Motor for FT Mustang or FT Spitfire

[phasA]

Hi Guys,

Im a great fan of the show and now want to start participate in the great community that grew around these awesome Dudes!

I want to scratchbuild a FT Mustang and a FT Spitfire. Are these Motors too big for that plane?

Flyzone F4U Motor (35-36-920kV) with 40A ESC
Parkzone 15 BL (950kV) with 30A ESC

I know a Motor should not be to small, but too big?

Thanks in advance for you're help Guys!

 

[phasA]

Hi Guys,
I learned a lot in the last 2 Days. The weight of both motors seem to be rather high. The Parkzone has around 120g and the Flyzone even more. and the low KV mean it has to use a big prop, which is a problem for such a small plane. (Flyzone uses 12x6 and the parkzone a 9,5x7,5)

With rear Battery placement, I could probably balance the plane. I don't know if the plane and the motor mount can handle the torque.

Did anybody do something like that before?

 

[joshuabardwell]

The first thing I would do is check the recommended motor for the plane. The recommended motors are 58 grams and 36 grams. At 120 grams plus, the motors you're proposing are 2-4x the weight of the suggested motor. At the very least, you'll need to make some modifications to keep the CG correct. If the motor is too big, you have to add a much bigger battery up front to keep the CG correct. Assuming you can fit a big enough battery in the plane, then the plane's wing loading and stall speed are much higher.

Realistically, you should be able to get most any flight characteristic you want out of a motor in the range of about 50-80 grams. The 120-gram-plus motors are more appropriate for heavier, larger models. Why do you want to switch from the stock motor? What flight characteristic are you trying to enhance by going with a larger motor?

 

[joshuabardwell]

To come at it from another direction, a rough rule of thumb is that between 80-120 watts per pound is a good starting point for general sport flying. Anything over 200 watts per pound is getting into serious power territory. The Spitfire comes in around 600 grams all-up, or 1.3 pounds. 1.3 * 200 = 260, so anything over 260 watts of motor is probably excessive. The ParkZone 15 you're considering is rated up to 575 watts of power--clearly excessive.

 

[phasA]

Thx for you're replies! I got these Motors laying around and thought of a good use for them.
That´s some great and understandable advice! Thanks a lot! I will order a recommended Setup.

May I ask you one more small thing. I have a 40A ESC. Is there a downside to use such a big ESC with the recommended small motor? Too small ESC is bad, i know, but too big?

And are you one of the Josh´s?

kind regards from Salzburg/Austria!

 

[joshuabardwell]

The only down-side to using a too-big ESC is that it will be heavier and larger on your plane. I like to over-size my ESC by maybe 50% or more if the ESC is going to be mounted inside the fuselage, instead of outside where it will get airflow. I find that the ESC's rating depends on getting more airflow than it typically gets inside a fuselage. The ESC's rating relates to its ability to dissipate heat, so a larger ESC will run cooler, and a smaller ESC can be helped out by giving it more air flow.

I'm not Josh Bixler or Josh Scott.

 

[phasA]

Another helpful reply. You are awesome! Thx

 

[jayz 84]

You sure can use them motors but with modifications. Do to such heavy motors you wont be able to balance at all the normal Ft way you have to move the battery to mid fuse. You have two options rather stick the battery inside the pod(itll be around the tail end of the pod) or you can check out my pod and battery hatch mod on my signature. I made that to work with big setups Many have liked and used my mod happily. But to answer the ? Yes you can use a motor of that size. I have a 150gram EF-1 pylon motor in mine. Now with big props if your belly landing you will have to be more careful on how you land thats alot more prop to catch the ground if still spinning and will mess the pod up (just cut off and glide in)

Another option scale the plane up to 120%

 

[phasA]

thx jayz 84 for you're infos! I thought about putting the battery way back. But I fear my pretty aggressive style of flying will put the strength of the build to a test. And I really don't want the wings to fold on me if I build the plane that heavy.
As I am printing my first FT plans this week, Would you think its possible to put carbon rods into the wings?

@jayz 84: great Mod! Will put it in my new plane!

Another thought is the turnigy park480. Its 80g and the Wattage would be ok. What do you think?

 

[Andre]

I put a Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 3536-1050kv Brushless Outrunner Motor in a FT Spitfire with a 50amp esc and it was a riot.

 

[jayz 84]

thx jayz 84 for you're infos! I thought about putting the battery way back. But I fear my pretty aggressive style of flying will put the strength of the build to a test. And I really don't want the wings to fold on me if I build the plane that heavy.
As I am printing my first FT plans this week, Would you think its possible to put carbon rods into the wings?

@jayz 84: great Mod! Will put it in my new plane!

Another thought is the turnigy park480. Its 80g and the Wattage would be ok. What do you think?

That motor will do you just fine man but i wouldent recommend the mod then do to the light motor the spit needs alot of nose weight you would have to have all your electronics in the nose and your tail servos in the canopy to use the mod being that light. Now on the wings i find it best to mod them with a spar rather carbon fiber or aluminum which i use sence i do 100mph + in most of my planes. And dont fear the weight ive had these planes over 1000g and they still float

 

[phasA]

@Andre: Thats a nice plane and some nice flying you did there. You obviously have fun! I hear on the vid that you use a 12" prop? Probably 12"x6"?

You guys helped me a lot. On my first build i will try the bigger motor. lets see how i can make this work.

Do you have photos of how and where you place the spars. I´m thinking of round Carbonrods as I have some laying around from another plane.

greets
phasA

 

[jayz 84]

@Andre: Thats a nice plane and some nice flying you did there. You obviously have fun! I hear on the vid that you use a 12" prop? Probably 12"x6"?

You guys helped me a lot. On my first build i will try the bigger motor. lets see how i can make this work.

Do you have photos of how and where you place the spars. I´m thinking of round Carbonrods as I have some laying around from another plane.

greets
phasA

I normally Use a flat aluminum spar sandwiched between the two foam spars you can apply the same method with your carbon spar just trim out a grove between the two foam spars set carbon rod in the grove then glue them together

 

[Andre]

Yeah that motor was happiest with a 12x6 prop.
With the 9" it just had no pull.

If I were to run a 4S I'm sure the 9" prop would be great.

@Andre: Thats a nice plane and some nice flying you did there. You obviously have fun! I hear on the vid that you use a 12" prop? Probably 12"x6"?

You guys helped me a lot. On my first build i will try the bigger motor. lets see how i can make this work.

Do you have photos of how and where you place the spars. I´m thinking of round Carbonrods as I have some laying around from another plane.

greets
phasA

 

[Andre]

If you are looking for a cheap glassfibre rod.

Try Walmart. I picked up those snow plow posts (orange) for cheap.

 

[jayz 84]

If you are looking for a cheap glassfibre rod.

Try Walmart. I picked up those snow plow posts (orange) for cheap.

You allso can go over to the hunting outdoor section and grad one of the aluminum arrows (Bowen arrow) there cheap and work great. You dont even have to use the foam spar then

 

[phasA]

nice, i use my Flyzone Motor with a 12x6 right now. Thats gonna fit fine.

Haha, we don´t have Walmart here in Austria... Must be crazy for you guys to have no Walmart in a 10km range. ))

The pro for the aluminium spar would be that i can bend it to correct shape. The glassfiber or carbon rods would be lighter but I have not
found a good way to connect them in the middle of the wing except for glueing... not very strong?

 

[TEAJR66]

phasA,

Check out this guys method for joining spars with dihedral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMfiCI1Z0Q&list=UU2QTy9BHei7SbeBRq59V66Q

As far as a bigger motor goes, this is the motor that I used in my FT Racer.
http://www.lazertoyz.com/Swappable-...erelectronics-pack-THE-BEEF-Pack-4_p_479.html
Once my son had a handle on his FT Spitfire with the 1200kv NTM, we switched power pods. The FT Spit on this motor, 9X6APC Prop and a 3S battery is very sporty and a blast to fly.

 

[nerdnic]

Bigger motor? Now that's what I'm talking about!

 

[phasA]

So, guys... I finished my project. and it fly´s nice! The smaller motor was great. no spurs needed because i don't fly that aggressive. Now its fast... Thx for You're help!

But i need to land slow... Do you guys know the effect of Flaperons or Spoilerons on The FT Mustang and Spitfire.

I tried Spoilerons on my Mustang today but it came down a bit too quickly... The effect was there and the plane didn't tip stall.
I heard that flaperons make the plane fly slower and give good lift, but tip stall easy. I will try it next week.

Has anyone tried these yet?

greats from Austria!