CARBON FIBER DISCUSSION

[Houndpup Rc]

Well that sucks but I can easily find it on amazon.

Doesn't matter because I already have mine! 😂

 

[Zoom Master]

Doesn't matter because I already have mine! 😂

Well good for u then !

 

[L Edge]

True getting a better radio wont make u a better pilot. And there is no pic there.

The key to learning 3D quickly is to be able to fly upside down and do knife edges. Not only do it right to left, but be able to do it left to right. And the other point to make is size has nothing to do with wind. Bigger is not better in the wind, it's in the design of the plane and your skill.

 

[Zoom Master]

The key to learning 3D quickly is to be able to fly upside down and do knife edges. Not only do it right to left, but be able to do it left to right. And the other point to make is size has nothing to do with wind. Bigger is not better in the wind, it's in the design of the plane and your skill.

I always found 3d flying super cool and now that I finally have some experience under my belt im gonna buy a 3d foamy and try 3d.

 

[Piotrsko]

Bigger has other issues in wind than just flying, but they are mostly slow speed close to the ground used as reference and crosswind flying. Plane needs to be strong enough to start with

Flying on a windy day is horrendous ground handling, in the air it drifts downwind, or flies faster /slower GROUND SPEED. Airspeed remains the same. My memories are hanging a full pound of ballast weight on a 36" wingspan just to fly beach slope on a 25mph windy day with 75 mph on the crest. The landing was spectacularly explosive every time

 

[Zoom Master]

Bigger has other issues in wind than just flying, but they are mostly slow speed close to the ground used as reference and crosswind flying. Plane needs to be strong enough to start with

Flying on a windy day is horrendous ground handling, in the air it drifts downwind, or flies faster /slower GROUND SPEED. Airspeed remains the same. My memories are hanging a full pound of ballast weight on a 36" wingspan just to fly beach slope on a 25mph windy day with 75 mph on the crest. The landing was spectacularly explosive every time

True bigger does have more issues but sometimes a bigger airplane is just simply cooler then a smaller one 😂

 

[Piotrsko]

I see your point..... more places to add features, gimmicks and geegaws. OTOH, since ultimate luxury for me was having rudder AND aileron control in the same plane..............

Coolness was never a factor, just showing up with a plane was good enough to draw a crowd of looky-loos. Doing an "ugly"* or a spectacular crash always got approval.

*ugly: full deflection cross control at high speed. Plane goes where ever and occasionally self destructs or impacts dirt

 

[Zoom Master]

I see your point..... more places to add features, gimmicks and geegaws. OTOH, since ultimate luxury for me was having rudder AND aileron control in the same plane..............

Coolness was never a factor, just showing up with a plane was good enough to draw a crowd of looky-loos. Doing an "ugly"* or a spectacular crash always got approval.

*ugly: full deflection cross control at high speed. Plane goes where ever and occasionally self destructs or impacts dirt

Well maybe it wasn't for you back in the day but it is somewhat for me. Thats why I go to the effort of painting my airplanes and making them look really nice because I want people to look at my plane and go "WOW that right there is one cool airplane". Making it large will also help you get those wows and looks. One of the reasons I even got interested in the hobby in the first place is because I used to watch a lot of videos of people flying extremely large expensive turbine jets that were into the 5-6 figure range.

 

[Mr Man]

Well maybe it wasn't for you back in the day but it is somewhat for me. Thats why I go to the effort of painting my airplanes and making them look really nice because I want people to look at my plane and go "WOW that right there is one cool airplane". Making it large will also help you get those wows and looks. One of the reasons I even got interested in the hobby in the first place is because I used to watch a lot of videos of people flying extremely large expensive turbine jets that were into the 5-6 figure range.

If all you want is for people to look at your plane, then build ANYTHING. People who don’t fly can’t see flaws 🤣. (believe me, everything is just short of perfection in their eyes, I once had a completely crumpled plane and everyone thought it was awesome 😂)

 

[Zoom Master]

If all you want is for people to look at your plane, then build ANYTHING. People who don’t fly can’t see flaws 🤣. (believe me, everything is just short of perfection in their eyes, I once had a completely crumpled plane and everyone thought it was awesome 😂)

I learned this from my parents after seeing them be impressed with any foamboard airplane I would build 😂 But it takes a bit more to impress someone who builds and flys rc planes 😂

 

[Piotrsko]

You aren't trying to impress your fellow fliers because they have been there building and crashing. You impress the people who looky-loo who have no idea and think what you do is impossible.

You impress the experts by imitating them sucessfully and thereby causing them to have to improve, whether or not they do.

Argue with me about air flow and stall of a Nasa 64 series airfoil in model applications, hit me with actual personal data  NOT gotten from youtoob BS, then color me impressd (won't be cut and paste easy)

Even better: show me why your shoe airfoil kicks my laminar profile butt

 

[Zoom Master]

You aren't trying to impress your fellow fliers because they have been there building and crashing. You impress the people who looky-loo who have no idea and think what you do is impossible.

You impress the experts by imitating them sucessfully and thereby causing them to have to improve, whether or not they do.

Argue with me about air flow and stall of a Nasa 64 series airfoil in model applications, hit me with actual personal data  NOT gotten from youtoob BS, then color me impressd (won't be cut and paste easy)

Even better: show me why your shoe airfoil kicks my laminar profile butt

You are actually spot on with that thats actually the crowd who is most impressed with my foamboard airplanes 😂 And I unfortunately cant argue with you about naca 64 airfoils at all cause I have little to no experience in airfoil testing or design 😂

 

[Piotrsko]

Not to worry, I am impressed at the rate you churn out planes. More than 50 ft away at above 30 mph, you cant see the mistakes

Got into profiles (for a while) because I wanted fast acrobatics. Shoe airfoil was better than all the others.... (airflow cant read published tables)

 

[Zoom Master]

Not to worry, I am impressed at the rate you churn out planes. More than 50 ft away at above 30 mph, you cant see the mistakes

Got into profiles (for a while) because I wanted fast acrobatics. Shoe airfoil was better than all the others.... (airflow cant read published tables)

Thanks ! Fast aerobatics sounds very fun ! And btw whats a shoe airfoil ?

 

[quorneng]

Zoom Master
As someone who has been building own design planes with own design airfoils for many years it is important to distinguish between performance (the amount of power it requires to carry the weight of the plane) and handling (how it behaves under the angles of attack found in aerobatics). The point being that RC planes tend to proportionally have more power than full size and thus the aerobatics can be more extreme as well.
It is worth bearing in mind that most of the "formal" wing sections are intended to perform well under a certain set of full size conditions which may not even exist at model sizes.
A full size high performance glider can achieve a lift to drag ratio as high as 60:1 (travel 60 ft for each foot drop in height. Even a really good model glider is unlikely to exceed 25:1
The classic case of this is in the Kline-Fogleman type airfoils which can work really well in models.

but you will not see them on any full size planes.

 

[Zoom Master]

Not to worry, I am impressed at the rate you churn out planes. More than 50 ft away at above 30 mph, you cant see the mistakes

Got into profiles (for a while) because I wanted fast acrobatics. Shoe airfoil was better than all the others.... (airflow cant read published tables)

Yeah have a question about profiles.....is it a good idea to use the same airfoil for all your control surfaces ? i.e. vertical stab, horizontal stab and wings.

 

[telnar1236]

Yeah have a question about profiles.....is it a good idea to use the same airfoil for all your control surfaces ? i.e. vertical stab, horizontal stab and wings.

Generally, you want a different wing airfoil from your tail airfoil, but it depends on the design. The rule is that you want your wing to stall before the tail, but this can be accomplished through both changes to airfoil and aspect ratio and designed in incidence, since a lower aspect ratio wing tends to stall at a higher angle of attack. The wing and tail also have different purposes with the tail providing control and stability and the wing providing lift (the wing also provides stability and control inputs in some designs but its not the primary purpose and in other designs the wing is destabilizing) so it's more important for the wing to be a high lift airfoil.

 

[Zoom Master]

Generally, you want a different wing airfoil from your tail airfoil, but it depends on the design. The rule is that you want your wing to stall before the tail, but this can be accomplished through both changes to airfoil and aspect ratio and designed in incidence, since a lower aspect ratio wing tends to stall at a higher angle of attack. The wing and tail also have different purposes with the tail providing control and stability and the wing providing lift (the wing also provides stability and control inputs in some designs but its not the primary purpose and in other designs the wing is destabilizing) so it's more important for the wing to be a high lift airfoil.

Alright thanks for the advice !

 

[Piotrsko]

Never to my knowledge had a horizontal stabilizer stall. Might cause a loop uncontrolled, either up or outside, OR, on full wing stall mode, become useless with massive pitch excursions

Shoe airfoil: take right edge of right shoe, trace on piece of paper the outline. Stop at heel. Can use left shoe if left handed. Remove shoe, connect front to back with straight line (ease of building) viola shoe airfoil. Since we are model size, all the NASA airfoil research data doesn't really apply, although I expect @quorneng to disagree (rightly so)

 

[Zoom Master]

Never to my knowledge had a horizontal stabilizer stall. Might cause a loop uncontrolled, either up or outside, OR, on full wing stall mode, become useless with massive pitch excursions

Shoe airfoil: take right edge of right shoe, trace on piece of paper the outline. Remove shoe, connect front to back with straight line (ease of building) viola shoe airfoil. Since we are model size, all the NASA airfoil research data doesn't really apply, although I expect @quorneng to disagree (rightly so)

Was wondering when you were gonna reply 😂