Carl Goldberg Ranger 30

[TooJung2Die]

Aileron wing plan

The more I learn about it, the more I like Inkscape. I started with the Tiny Trainer sport wing plan and modified it to fit the Ranger. The Ranger wing has a 29.75" span and 5" chord. It can be made with or without dihedral. If the wing is made flat it can be cut from one piece of DT foam board, eliminating the middle seam.

The first sport wing I made for the Tiny Trainer folded during a loop maneuver at the inner edge of an aileron where there are only two thin spars for strength. The next TT sport wing I made has wood spars there. If the Ranger aileron wing is built flat, continuous wood spars can be used from servo to servo. Or carbon fiber if you prefer.

I haven't built the aileron wing yet. I'm having too much fun with the 3 channel Ranger. I put a 1000mAh 3s battery in it and pointed the nose at the sky. It just kept climbing. With a 2s battery a loop is a flip. With a 3s battery loops are as big as you want them to be. I'll make the 4 channel wing when I get brave enough to take it to the next level.

Here's the aileron wing plan. Follow the Tiny Trainer build instructions.

View attachment Ranger wing ailerons.pdf

Jon

 

[TooJung2Die]

Aileron wing

It rained most of the weekend and I didn't get much flying time so I started on the wing. This photo shows where to replace the thin foam spars with wood on the Tiny Trainer style wing. I had a wing fold right at that spot. I used the sticks from 4th of July rockets I found littering one of the flying fields. They're a 1/4" square, light and straight. I used a small block plane to make them 3/16" thick.



To dihedral, or not to dihedral? That is the question.
I found it best to leave a wing flat during the construction and add the dihedral at the end. All this wing needs is control horns, push rods and dihedral. Never having flown a flat wing airplane, does it make a big difference? I'm not a very good pilot so I'm concerned but curious. Should I leave the wing flat or be safe and add some dihedral?



I shortened the aileron length by 1/2" so there's more room where the rubber bands sit and less likelihood they'll slip into the aileron slots. I found this was a potential problem on my first 4 channel Tiny Trainer wing.

Jon

 

[TooJung2Die]

Aileron wing dihedral

I set the dihedral at 1 inch, a compromise between flat and the 3 channel wing with 2 inch dihedral.



Now if the wind will cooperate I can maiden the new wing.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

I plan to build but really want to give your new larger tails and the the original wing shape w/ ailerons ( with possible tweaking to the undercamber ). I'll let you know if success or failure.

 

[TooJung2Die]

I plan to build but really want to give your new larger tails and the the original wing shape w/ ailerons ( with possible tweaking to the undercamber ). I'll let you know if success or failure.

I sure hope you figure it out! The tapered wing is nice looking but the first three wings tip stalled when turning. It had a bad tendency to bank and dive if anything tighter than a wide turn was attempted. It looked pretty but wasn't fun to fly.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

I've got version 1 built. I decided to skip your wider version becuase really want to see work as swappable with might mini series.

First try, no dihedral. Hoping to be a bit sporty. Gave it a little more undercamber at the wing tips by reducing the length of the flat bottom by 2" on each side. Opted to skip the rudder like I do on most all my small models and to save on tail weight. 1 thickness of foam down thrust for the mini pod. Mini pod is stock with the right thrust angle of the mighty minis.

Hoping the winds will calm down enough at dusk to try it out and report back.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Ranger 4 channel

We finally got a lull in the October wind this morning so I got to try out the 4 channel aileron wing. Faster and more nimble is how I would describe it. Everything happens quicker even with a 2s battery. I didn't crash but I came close a couple of times due to pilot error. I took video of two flights. Maiden flight with a 2s battery and the second flight with a 3s. I'll post them as soon as I get a chance.

I would really like to see what a skilled pilot can do with this little airplane in it's current configuration. Response to input is quite snappy and the 3s battery will climb vertical. I'm not a good 4 channel pilot yet. Flying it definitely got my heart rate up.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

I tried your V1 wing and just didn't have enough control. The ailerons were just too thin so couldn't get enough deflection.

I found a simliar FT wing for the flying boxcar( http://www.stonekap.net/ftplans/ft boxcar_Plans.pdf . Selected just the wing parts and printed as poster at 50%. Came out just the right length and a touch wider but not enough to need any changes to the fuselage . Shape isn't exactly the same as your original but pretty close. Using your original spar must be thinner so very minor cuts to get the bottom part of the wing to clear the ailerons.

I went with 2" dihedral simply becuase that's the width of my tape roll and made for an easy guide. I'm sure it would be fine with less or maybe none at all.

I flew the pants off it with 1804 motor, 500mah 3s, 6x3 prop. Flying weight was 189grams. Plenty zippy enough for the size plane. Vertical was fine, I could get 4-5 rolls while vertical before it lost steam. Again, no rudder just bank and yank. 1/2 throttle it could have used a rudder for cordinated turns but it was acceptable without.

The down thrust of mini pod at 1 thickness of foam was fine, I didn't notice any tendancy to climb on it's own at all even a full speed. Didn't require any elevator trim to fly level.

Was running 70% throw on elevator and thought it could use a bit more. Was doing crazy stuff just to see what the limits would be and didn't have quite enough elevator to pull up in time so I smashed the front. I didn't have a chance to fly around at slower speeds to see how it handled stalls at low speed or to glide speed.

I wanted to do minor tweak to the front to make it more swappable friendly. With the extra thickness of foam in front for the down thrust the bottom of the pod stuck out from the curve just a tad. So I'll post a pic after that is done to see if you think any of it's worthy to make it into your final design.

 

[TooJung2Die]

dgrigor02, That boxcar wing is almost a perfect match. Change the outline of the wingtips to what Goldberg drew and it'll be indistinguishable. It looks like larger control surfaces are crucial to RC on this small airplane. There were no movable control surfaces on the original free flight airplane, it didn't need them.

Your airplane is 2 oz lighter! Did you include landing gear?

What wing incidence did you put on the fuselage? The 2 degrees incidence in the first plan doesn't seem necessary. I think the original airplane plan had 3 degrees.

If you square off the top of nose keeping it the same height as the nose with formers a mini power pod should tuck in there keeping the motor on the same center line as the fixed firewall.

It's definitely more aerobatic with ailerons. I wanted a docile trainer to work on my meager flying skills with. I probably should spend more time flying on the simulator. The four channel Ranger can do things in the air I don't have the skills yet to handle! I'm still practicing doing lazy eights while keeping the same altitude.

I thought about building the FT Storch before I found the Ranger but it is much too big. This little airplane will fit in the back seat of the car and doesn't need a big flying field.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

Everything is your original plans from post #12. I haven't changed anything at this point except the wing and didn't add control surface to the rudder since I'm more of a bank and yank and don't use much rudder anyways. No landing gear as I'm on grass ( soccer field ) and didn't want to spend the time for just a prototype.

So I was thinking more last night and since they are so close only the cord width is wider and the creases aren't in same spots. So what I did for wing version #3 is scale up your original wing 114%. This gives me the same width as the ft wing but now it is 2" longer so I cut the ends with the same tip shape as your original ( also 2" off the bottom part of the wing to match ) . So it's now the the same shape , same length only a wider cord. I also copied the crease lines widths from the FT wing. I'll give the exact details after another test flight.

It's rainy today in Minneapolis so likely won't get to try it today unless it clears up near dusk.

I agree, I don't think the ranger design for rc flight is going to make it a beginner likely you had hoped. The wing shape design I doubt would ever make a good 3 channel ( rudder elevator ) becuase of the tip stalls. Might get lucky and the wder tips may be just enough to reduce tips stalls without ailerons may be worth a try one last time.

I'm pretty confident its going to be a fun intermediate in the mighty mini size. The plus it has going for it IMO is it's more stable, easier to control, and not as twichy as the baby baron or the pun jet on 3s battery but still can do some crazy stuff and zippy for its size.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Four Channel Ranger maiden flight

Here's the video of the maiden flight with the aileron wing I based on the Tiny Trainer wing. First flight was with a 2s battery. It really got zippy on the next flight with a 3s. Wish I was a better pilot so you can see what this little plane can do. Guess you'll have to build one yourself and see. All I can do is bank-n-yank. I don't even know what to do with the rudder yet! Almost bit the dirt at 1:23.

dgrigor02, I'm going to borrow your ideas and make another tapered wing with ailerons. I'm happy the 4th and 5th versions fly well but I prefer the look that Goldberg designed. I really appreciate your contributions.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

Ranger wing version 3 ready ( original wing resized 114% cut tips to length and used ft wing crease marks ) just waiting for wind conditions to improve to test and report back.

For fun I setup my transmitter to use flaperons to see how slow I can get it to fly by using flaps.

 

[TooJung2Die]

That looks sweet! Is that colored electrical tape I see?

Those ailerons should be plenty big enough. I positioned the wing creases by using the ratio from the Tiny Trainer wing. After the first three failures I pretty much narrowed it down to wing design as the problem. It's great you're getting better results using the boxcar wing airfoil.

I gotta find out how to set up flaperons on the FlySky FS-i6 radio. I'm mixing two channels on the ailerons.

I understand why you don't need rudder. I discovered today by accident the rudder servo was reversed. I never noticed because I never use it with ailerons. Bank-n-yank is all I know. I've flown the Ranger a dozen times and never touched the rudder until I decided to try a ground take off.

I flew for an hour today, getting used to the 4 channels. It is much more maneuverable than the 3 channel. The 3 channel is docile. The 4 channel is snappy. I have the elevator set to 60% rate, -76 expo and ailerons 50%, -76. It's still easy for me to get in over my head.

Jon

 

[dgrigor02]

It failed. It was managable enough that I didn't crash but still anything but full throttle and try to turn and it sinks pretty bad. Also looks like a knife edge in the turn not sure what that means. This has the original rudder on it, does that mean it rudder too small or has more to do with wing shape ? I don't really know. After 114% resize the wing surface area is pretty darn close to the ft boxcar wing only the angles are a bit different. I didn't think that would make such a difference.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Sounds familiar. I think you're describing the same odd flying behavior I experienced with the tapered wing and original rudder. It wouldn't turn without crashing. It needs a bigger rudder. 40% bigger according to one person who converted the balsa Ranger to RC. I got the 3rd version three channel to fly poorly by stretching the rudder to 5" and using a KFm2 airfoil, tapered wing. It still had all kinds of unexpected behavior during turns.

I couldn't be happier with the 4th version Ranger. I flew the 4 channel wing for another hour this afternoon during perfect conditions. I actually got brave enough to fly it around close to the ground, practicing head high low passes and turns. I usually fly two mistakes high. It has replaced the Tiny Trainer as my favorite airplane.

 

[dgrigor02]

I still have hope. Last night I built Nerdnics 800mm chipmunk wing resized to 88%. Completely stock no mods and it flew pretty well. Only troulbe was there is just not much meat left on the aileron and didn't have ability to roll. Otherwise it flew well. So the lesson I learned from it, the shape demensions are almost identical to your original resized to 114%. The difference being the spar is taller. So I'm going to do one last version before giving up.

Going back to your original wing 114% ends cut to length but use the spar height and creases from the chipmunk wing.

I did change the rudder to your larger sized and sure that helped in the turns as well, didn't seem to want to knife edge as much in the turn.

Except for the limited turn/roll ability, It flew very nice. I'll shoot a video, if I ever get it to my liking so you can review and see if any of it is worthy of making your the final plans.

 

[dgrigor02]

Bingo ! I don't need to try the proposed version in post #56.

I forgot to retest my wing version 3 ( post #52 ) AFTER replacing the rudder with your larger version. That did the trick, flys great ( 3 channel = throttle, aileron, elevator ).

I'll charge up a new battery and get a video for you and recap the wing changes and fold changes to the front to make it more pod friendly.

Retested today with the larger rudder and a little more nose heavy than prior test and it's flying excellent ( for my tastes anyways ).

 

[TEAJR66]

I just drew one up and built it today. I will get pics tomorrow. Should be able to fly in the morning. So, maybe flight vid also.

I scaled don the HStab span. 14" was crazy long for a horizontal stabilizer when the wing was only 30" span.

I have captured the wing shape, but it looks like too little wing area for a plane this size. The proportions seem funky to me. Like, the nose is really long also.

We will see.

 

[TEAJR66]

Here are two screen shots in sketchup before I scaled down the H Stab.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Except for the limited turn/roll ability, It flew very nice. I'll shoot a video, if I ever get it to my liking so you can review and see if any of it is worthy of making your the final plans.

I don't think of this as my project. It isn't my airplane in the first place. I shamelessly ripped off Mr. Goldberg's design. Think of it as open-source airplane plans.

I'm a bit confused about your last successful configuration. What exactly did you use?

Jon