choose multi-rotor motors and props (advice) tarot

[techsgin]

Hi All ( and thanks in advance )

I have some multi-rotor parts and I need some help on which direction to go.
My goal is flight time (mixed hover and movements) at reasonable speed with gimbal and gopro.

The parts I have and or plan to buy are:

Radio: (waiting for delivery)
transmitter FRSKY X9D plus (hardware B01 intentional)
receiver FRSKY X8R (intentional) (waiting for delivery)

FC - Fligth controller: (own it, and tested OK)
PIXHAWK + GPS + POWER MODULE + 900MHZ radio modem telemetry + buzzer + switch.

FPV: (own it, and tested OK)
transmitter 5.8GHz 32CH A/V 600mW Transmitter (TS832) (all ready own it)
receiver 5.8 GHz 32 Channel RC832 (all ready own it)
Micro MinimOSD
7 inch screen with no audio

Gimbal: (plan to buy)
HAKRC Storm32 3 Axis Brushless Gimbal W/ Motors & 32 bit Storm32 Controlller for Gimbal Gopro3 / Gopro4 FPV Accessory

2 Frames:
OPTION 1 (waiting for delivery) : Tarot 650 Carbon Fiber 4 Axile Aircraft Fully Folding FPV Quadcopter Frame Kit TL65B01 F05548
OPTION 2 (already own it) : Tarot FY690S Full 6 axle Carbon Aircraft Frame 3K Folding Hexacopter 680mm FPV TL68C01 F07803

Battery (already own them):
2 x Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 4S 25~50C Lipo Pack

ESC (already own them):
4 x AFRO 30A opto
4 x AFRO 30A non opto with bec

MOTORS (I currently have):
4 x sunnysky v2216 900KV (http://www.rcsunnysky.com/html/2014/vseries_0918/23.html)
6 x DT750 (at least one motor is a bit loose)

PROPS (I currently have):
GEMFAN 1045 Nylon Propeller CW/CCW

Now here is where I need your help ( I have spent to much time and money doing the wrong things )

While I prefer to use the TL65B01 (4 Axile) frame with the motors I already have (sunnysky v2216 900KV with 10x45 props), my understanding is that the flight time will be bad.

I am interested In buying proper new motors or additional motors and new props.

option 1: TL65B01 (4 Axile) with sunnysky v2216 900KV and different props.
option 2: TL65B01 (4 Axile) with diffrent motors and different props.
option 3: TL68C01 (6 Axile) with sunnysky v2216 900KV and buy 2 more motors and different props.
option 4: TL68C01 (6 Axile) with diffrent motors and different props.
option 5: TL68C01 (6 Axile) with DT750 motors and different props.

List of motors I was looking at are ( really confused as data is not really available ):
1. Sunnysky X3108S 720 KV
2. Sunnysky X3508S 580 KV or 700KV
3. Sunnysky V3508 580 KV or 700KV
4. Tarot 4006/620KV Multi-axis Brushless Motor TL68P02
5. Rctimer 5010-620KV Multicopter Brushless Motor
6. DJI E600 3508 MOTOR motor and DJI 12*4.2 props
7. DJI E800 3510 MOTOR motor and DJI 13*5.5 props

Any other recommendation will be great.

About the props, above all they should match the motor and frame but I would also like them to be self-lock and quick release ( I really like the DJI E600 and E800 props and motor mount but I am not sure if I can use it on non DJI motors)

Many Thanks TechSgin

 

[techsgin]

Hi All

Well, this is the information I have collected so far.

I can't use the DJI E600 or E800 as it requires 6S 22.2V and i already own 2 new 4S 5000mah.

While the "Tarot 4006/620KV" motors are compatible with 4S LIPO based on the blogs I read on the internet they are weak and tend to get HOT on the 650 (4 axle) or (680 6 axle)

So I am basically left with the "Sunnysky X3508S 580 KV" and "Sunnysky V3508 580 KV" which have the same specifications and they differ in quality and price ( the V series should have better barrings and higher price)


Here is rough calculation for the frames I own:

650 (4 axle):
Total weight: ~2.5 kg
Hover (50% thrust) required: 2.5 / 4 = ~625 g
Hover time required: ~20 min (~0.33 hours)
Given the 5000 mah: 5000
Hover amp calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on 625 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 5000 ma
Hover time calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on625 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 5000 / 5000 / 4 = 0.25 hours = 15 minutes

Note: If I use both LIPOs in parallel which will add 500 g to the weight and 5000 mah to capacity:
Hover time calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on 750 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 10000 / 7000 / 4 = 0.35 = 21 min

680 (6 axle):
Total weight: ~3.0 kg
Hover (50% thrust) required: 3.0 / 6 = ~500 g
Hover time required: ~20 min (~0.33 hours)
Hover amp calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on 500 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 4000 ma
Hover time calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on 500 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 5000 / 4000 / 6 = 0.20 hours = 12 minutes

Note: If I use both LIPOs in parallel which will 500 g to the weight and 5000 mah to capacity
Hover time calculated for "V3508 580 KV" based on 583 g using 4S and 12x38 props yields: 10000 / 4500 / 6 = 0.37 = 22 min




Summary:

based on my calculations ( if they are correct ) I couldn't find a proper motor and propeller setup that will have 20 min hover time.

The only ( that I could find ) reasonable priced motors ( up to 35$ each ) that publish their specifications are the "SunnySky" ones.
There are other motors that might be more suitable but I could't reliably determine their behavior as no reliable specs are available.

In regards to quick release props

I have found 2 solutions that I like but I am not sure if they are compatible V3508 motors ( please share your experience )

OPTION 1:
Tarot anti quick release paddle holder
http://www.tarot-rc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1283

OPTION 2:
DJI E800 1345 Carbon Fiber Quick Release Rotor
http://www.helipal.com/dji-e800-self-tightening-1345-props-cw-ccw-black-with-white-strips.html


DJI E800 Quick Release Rotor Adapter (Dia. 22mm / CW & CCW)
http://www.helipal.com/dji-quick-release-rotor-adapter-dia-22mm-cw-ccw.html


Several other interesting motors that might be used ( please share your experience with below motors on 650 or 680 tarot ):

"Multistar Elite 3508-268KV High Voltage Endurance Motor (AR Warehouse)"
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...gh_Voltage_Endurance_Motor_AR_Warehouse_.html

"Multistar Elite 3510-350kv Carbon Case Multi-Rotor Motor"
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...3510_350kv_Carbon_Case_Multi_Rotor_Motor.html

Multistar Elite 4006-740KV Multi-Rotor Motor
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__63643__Multistar_Elite_4006_740KV_Multi_Rotor_Motor.html

"Turnigy Multistar 4822-490Kv 22Pole Multi-Rotor Outrunner"
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._4822_490Kv_22Pole_Multi_Rotor_Outrunner.html

Turnigy Multistar 4822-570Kv 22Pole Multi-Rotor Outrunner
"http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26959__Turnigy_Multistar_4822_570Kv_22Pole_Multi_Rotor_Outrunner.html"

very cheap - 4x 5010 750KV High Torque Brushless Motors For Multi-axis aircraft Quadcopter
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4x-5...11&btsid=65edeeb3-632f-4c0c-844d-4a537b7f8ac3

Rctimer 5010-360kv/530kv/620kv Brushless Motor for RC Multi-Axis Quadcopter drone
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rcti...11&btsid=65edeeb3-632f-4c0c-844d-4a537b7f8ac3

Regards
TechSgin

 

[techsgin]

Hi All

My near final decision (with a bit of gambling) is to buy the:

Use the 4 axle frame.

"SunnySky V3508" 32$ (should be better than the X series)
http://www.himodel.com/electric/SUN...Brushless_Motor_for_Multi-rotor_Aircraft.html

"SunnySky X3508S" 30$ (Still I like the black color)
http://www.himodel.com/electric/SUN...unner_Brushless_Motor_for_Multi-rotor_4S.html

Tarot 1555 props (TL2831)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Taro...30.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.267.ikGeIj

Tarot positive quick release paddle - TL68B35\TL68B36
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Taro...21.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.273.ikGeIj

I hope you will find this helpful

 

[techsgin]

Hi All

Am I going to burn my motor ?

I will be using 30A afro ESC with 5000 mah 4S (14.8v)

Based on the specs of my motor "sunnysky v3508 580KV" the "Maximum Continues Current" is 18A for 30S (seconds I believe)
But when looking at the specs related to the "DJI 1555 propeller" then it states that the current can reach 18.9A ?!

"sunnysky v3508 580KV" specs
http://www.rcsunnysky.com/html/2014/vseries_0918/21.html

Does this mean that if I push my throttle all they I can burn my motors ?
Is there is a way to place a limit in PIXHAWK ?

Many Thanks
TechSgin

 

[Snarls]

Hey techsgin, I can see you've put a lot of time into planning this build. I can't suggest what motor is best as I have not used any of them. That said, check out eCalc. It probably has most of the motors you listed and if you input the specs you have you can find things like hover time and amp draw. You can play around with many combinations to see what is best.

You probably won't burn out your motor. That current draw is at full throttle which you almost will never use on an AP machine. Hover throttle will probably be much less. In the pixhawk you can adjust the throttle range so that you can never hit max throttle, but again it is unlikely you will ever hit that throttle anyway.

If you want you can check out my TBS Discovery build linked in my signature. It uses Sunnysky X2212 980kv motors with 10" props and a 4s 5200mAh battery. It gets around 18 mins of flight time with a three axis gimbal on board.