Club is trying to launch a drone program!

[FL_Engineer]

So let's talk about rules for a minute, since that seems to be the biggest "negative".

When you fly, whether it's at a park, your backyard, or a club flying field with a runway, there are things you don't want to do - you don't want to hit people, you don't want to hit property (whether it's a car, home, etc.). That's a rule right there. DON'T HIT ANYTHING.

Why?

You don't want to hurt anyone, you don't want to do damage to property, whether it's your own or someone else's.

That's what the rules are about - keeping people safe by NOT flying directly overhead, by NOT flying towards people, by NOT buzzing cars in the parking lot. We have the requirements of having a spotter to fly because we want to make sure the drone pilots are aware of people coming up behind them, out of view, or of the occasional full scale aircraft that flies overhead (we've had several instances recently of medical helicopters flying over our field en route from an accident to the nearest local hospital - hikers who have fallen and injured themselves or been bitten by the overabundance of rattlesnakes in the area this year).

If it's all about "screw the rules", then you won't mind if I intentionally fly my cheap foamboard plane into your drone, right? Or launching my plane directly behind you, and over your head?
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Yes, I'm being ridiculous to make a point - we keep with rules to keep people safe. The reason we don't have bigger incidents is because we try to follow the rules at our field. We go out there to have fun, and that's what our club is about - which is going to bring me back to my original point of this post:

What would be attractive to drone pilots to get them to come fly at a field instead of constantly having to dodge Johnny Law, the "Karens" of the world, and have fun?

I agree on the rules front, personally I agree with the premise of safe flying and not doing stupid crap because it's funny. My thought is that it can be intimidating when you join a group that has a preconception of what "safe" flying is based on what was available 40-50 years ago. That leads to the underlying image of the AMA as a bunch of old guys flying balsa planes that have no interest in things like FPV or race quads. Not saying it's like that with every field but the image is out there.

I spent Saturday morning watching a guy fly his quad in an open field and my take away was that without trees or buildings to fly around there didn't seem to be much excitement for him. Maybe if your club setup a gate course with obstacles it could entice the multi rotor crowd?

 

[Timmy]

the underlying image of the AMA as a bunch of old guys flying balsa planes that have no interest in things like FPV or race quads.

yep i get that impression.

 

[clolsonus]

In my experience, the scene of the crash is almost always very close to the point of the original problem. (Flyaways can happen, but I've never actually seen one myself, but I have seen lots of scenes.) So long story short, if you aren't flying over people/property, there's a pretty small chance of harming people property. If you do take chances and fly over people, yours and theirs risk levels go way way up. If someone gets flown over, they have every right to raise a stink and complain ... maybe to the city, maybe to the property owner, maybe to the country sheriff, etc. Most of my club rules center around safety and keeping a clear margin between people and airplanes; avoiding potential situations in the air and on the ground. Some of the older rules are more focused on 72 mhz frequency management which is less of a thing these days.

 

[sprzout]

Find some of their events and show up. Talk to them and get their input. Fly a drone or two and put yourself into their boots.

LB

That's the problem - I'm trying to create events at our field. The drone guys aren't flying at any particular location because they keep getting kicked out

I agree on the rules front, personally I agree with the premise of safe flying and not doing stupid crap because it's funny. My thought is that it can be intimidating when you join a group that has a preconception of what "safe" flying is based on what was available 40-50 years ago. That leads to the underlying image of the AMA as a bunch of old guys flying balsa planes that have no interest in things like FPV or race quads. Not saying it's like that with every field but the image is out there.

I spent Saturday morning watching a guy fly his quad in an open field and my take away was that without trees or buildings to fly around there didn't seem to be much excitement for him. Maybe if your club setup a gate course with obstacles it could entice the multi rotor crowd?

We have them, but they're not immediately visible from the parking area - you have to go to where the chairs are, and look down into a pit area (it's the way the terrain is at our field - short of getting thousands of pounds of fill dirt to put in and bring it level, it's not gonna happen LOL).

The biggest problem that I have isn't stuff at the field, it's getting people to come out to the field and then come back. I'm trying to find something to get people to come out and KEEP coming out. Events are one way, having a dedicated field is another. Maybe we need some signs at the field as well, indicating where they can fly...

 

[PsyBorg]

Maybe drop off flyers at local stores and businesses to promote the field and organized events? oh yeah and school activities boards as well specially if they have stem programs.

Maybe make a note that prizes may be offered if enough regular pilots start flying there? usually races are for prizes and people could use things to keep their gear in the air.

Dam more ideas.... maybe some kind of concession stand like at ball fields with simple snacks nothing cooked due to health codes and such? Bulk sodas and chips type things can be steady income to help finances as long as the people in charge can be trusted.

and again... How bout a 5 dollar per session non member charge to come fly... 5 to 10 people a day is money that would have never come at all is better then empty field

 

[JasonK]

So let's talk about rules for a minute, since that seems to be the biggest "negative"

it depends on the rules.

• you have the FAA rules
• you have the AMA rules
• you have your local club rules

do quad pilots have issues with the FAA rules -> some do and I can understand not wanting these at your park.

As they currently stand (spotter required for FPV), I find them reasonable and understandable (if not sometimes anoying... for example there is a [basically unused] dirt road off the side of some of the parks I fly at that I would love to fly down... but that would take me out of LOS of my spotter - so I don't do that)​

Do quad pilots have issues with the AMA rules -> I can't see how they wouldn't if they understand them (see prior post)

To me this one is a killer for quads + any AMA airfield​

Does quad pilots have issues with your club rules -> no idea, have you asked any of the quad pilots why they don't want to come back?

that last point is a good one... have you followed up with any of them to ask why the don't want to come back? Because, while we can all provide you our personal thoughts as to why they aren't coming back, your airfield's situation sounds better then my local one(s) from a first pass.

From what I have seen, there seems to be some level of anomosity between quad FPV flyers and the AMA and that might be the extent of it.

 

[JasonK]

@sprzout - I looked at https://www.palomarrcflyers.com/ and don't see anything that tells me that this site is quad-FPV friendly. it looks very fixed wing and maybe heli orientated. Everything on the page points out all the fixed wing benefits of the site. Slideshow seems to be all scale model fixed wing (I don't even see anything like foamy combats or anything like that).

if I was going to go by that main page of the website alone, I would see 'old school AMA club, probably not quad-FPV friendly'.

I haven't been at your field, so I can't comment on if the field itself feels welcoming or not.

 

[LitterBug]

@sprzout - I looked at https://www.palomarrcflyers.com/ and don't see anything that tells me that this site is quad-FPV friendly. it looks very fixed wing and maybe heli orientated. Everything on the page points out all the fixed wing benefits of the site. Slideshow seems to be all scale model fixed wing (I don't even see anything like foamy combats or anything like that).

if I was going to go by that main page of the website alone, I would see 'old school AMA club, probably not quad-FPV friendly'.

I haven't been at your field, so I can't comment on if the field itself feels welcoming or not.

LOL.... I remember the fun I went through when joining the field I'm at now. I wasn't very good at anything, and everyone around here didn't have time for noobs. I showed up for my flight check with a plane I probably had no business flying at that point, and ended up putting it down in a field behind a line of trees. Needless to say, they were not impressed. They referred me to the field safety officer who flew drones, and I went back another day to fly my A450 for him and promptly ejected my battery. LOL. But here I am 4 or so years later, and we are a very open minded but very small shrinking club trying to get anyone to show.

LB

 

["Corpse"]

I wish our local club would do more quad racing. That's really all I fly nowadays.

Racing would really get me into our local club, and I would gladly spend a yearly membership fee for that! Also maybe host a freestyle competition with a panel of judges if you have enough people to accomplish that. You'd also need a monitor that could see multiple fpv feeds at once. If our club did that OMG I WOULD LOVE IT.

 

[sprzout]

@sprzout - I looked at https://www.palomarrcflyers.com/ and don't see anything that tells me that this site is quad-FPV friendly. it looks very fixed wing and maybe heli orientated. Everything on the page points out all the fixed wing benefits of the site. Slideshow seems to be all scale model fixed wing (I don't even see anything like foamy combats or anything like that).

if I was going to go by that main page of the website alone, I would see 'old school AMA club, probably not quad-FPV friendly'.

I haven't been at your field, so I can't comment on if the field itself feels welcoming or not.

Good point - I'll definitely make changes with that. I will put words out to the webmaster to put focus on our drone area. I was also trying to figure out how to set up a drone training program for those who want to learn to fly drones; we're currently doing fixed wing flying on Monday nights, so maybe I'll gauge interest in that and see if we can't work something out for it.

 

[PsyBorg]

Hit me up outside an open thread for ideas about a training program if you are serious. There are many pit falls and traps that come with the typical you tube pro pilots teachings that are simple and easily avoided with any semblance of non cookie cutter life.

 

[cranialrectosis]

I fly FPV quads because they don't require a field so they don't require a club or a park.

It is harder to build a copter and much easier to learn to fly one on your own than a fixed wing foamie so again copters require far less space. I can hover in my living room and learn at my own pace. I do not require speed to make lift so I can take however long I want to learn to fly.

I charge 4, 75C 1300 4S lipos to fly a copter. I burn them in under 30 minutes to maintain 'the zone'. I am not going to drive all the way out to a club and put up with traffic and FCC stupidity to fly for 30 minutes and then head home without a VERY compelling flight area. I am not charging 4 lipos with 20 minute each flight times for an all-day experience. It takes me 2 hours to recharge. I may fly 4 sessions in a day. This is much simpler to manage close to home and my own bathroom.

The FAA successfully divided the RC community with a campaign of fear. What used to be a welcoming community of people has become a group of scared, old guys trying to hang on to something the FAA has already destroyed.

It is safer for clubs and the AMA to blame copter pilots than to deal with the government that did this. So, all the newbies left.

They are done with the never-ending, always-changing regulations, the fear, accusations and anger and the big, expensive fields that we don't need or use. I can flip my 4" Alien in my shower stall and I launch (and sometimes land) off a 5 gallon paint barrel (snow). Why would I join AMA and a club and pay for part of a $5,000 runway?

So the government will accept me as a pilot? They NEVER will. No matter what I pay, learn or certify. It's a lie. Control, not safety is the purpose of registration.

Smart people already left the hobby or went underground.

IMO club membership will decline regardless of fixed wing or copters. Membership is expensive, buys things I have no use for and FAA threats make other club members suspicious or outright hostile. Registering as a pilot with the government is hazardous to your health regardless of how you fly. Gatwick proved that.

If you want to get people to your club, end the FAA reign of terror and make clubbing fun again.

It's how kids ended the Soviet Union.

 

[Timmy]

I fly FPV quads because they don't require a field so they don't require a club or a park.

It is harder to build a copter and much easier to learn to fly one on your own than a fixed wing foamie so again copters require far less space. I can hover in my living room and learn at my own pace. I do not require speed to make lift so I can take however long I want to learn to fly.

I charge 4, 75C 1300 4S lipos to fly a copter. I burn them in under 30 minutes to maintain 'the zone'. I am not going to drive all the way out to a club and put up with traffic and FCC stupidity to fly for 30 minutes and then head home without a VERY compelling flight area. I am not charging 4 lipos with 20 minute each flight times for an all-day experience. It takes me 2 hours to recharge. I may fly 4 sessions in a day. This is much simpler to manage close to home and my own bathroom.

The FAA successfully divided the RC community with a campaign of fear. What used to be a welcoming community of people has become a group of scared, old guys trying to hang on to something the FAA has already destroyed.

It is safer for clubs and the AMA to blame copter pilots than to deal with the government that did this. So, all the newbies left.

They are done with the never-ending, always-changing regulations, the fear, accusations and anger and the big, expensive fields that we don't need or use. I can flip my 4" Alien in my shower stall and I launch (and sometimes land) off a 5 gallon paint barrel (snow). Why would I join AMA and a club and pay for part of a $5,000 runway?

So the government will accept me as a pilot? They NEVER will. No matter what I pay, learn or certify. It's a lie. Control, not safety is the purpose of registration.

Smart people already left the hobby or went underground.

IMO club membership will decline regardless of fixed wing or copters. Membership is expensive, buys things I have no use for and FAA threats make other club members suspicious or outright hostile. Registering as a pilot with the government is hazardous to your health regardless of how you fly. Gatwick proved that.

If you want to get people to your club, end the FAA reign of terror and make clubbing fun again.

It's how kids ended the Soviet Union.

How optimistic

 

[cranialrectosis]

How optimistic

I am very optimistic.

We really do have the power.

"If you will excuse me, Your Excellency, it is our view that matters have gone beyond legislation. We think it is time you recognized that you are masters in someone else's home. Despite the best intentions of the best of you, you must, in the nature of things, humiliate us to control us. General Dyer is but an extreme example of the principle. It is time you left.

...
Yes. In the end, you will walk out, because 100,000 Englishmen simply cannot control 350,000,000 Indians if those Indians refuse to cooperate. And that is what we intend to achieve: peaceful, nonviolent, non-cooperation -- till you, yourselves, see the wisdom of leaving." -from the movie Ghandi

Peaceful, nonviolent, non-cooperation requires optimism and faith in buckets. Buckets you can learn to build and fill by RC flying!

 

["Corpse"]

How optimistic

How sarcastic

 

[sprzout]

I fly FPV quads because they don't require a field so they don't require a club or a park.

It is harder to build a copter and much easier to learn to fly one on your own than a fixed wing foamie so again copters require far less space. I can hover in my living room and learn at my own pace. I do not require speed to make lift so I can take however long I want to learn to fly.

I charge 4, 75C 1300 4S lipos to fly a copter. I burn them in under 30 minutes to maintain 'the zone'. I am not going to drive all the way out to a club and put up with traffic and FCC stupidity to fly for 30 minutes and then head home without a VERY compelling flight area. I am not charging 4 lipos with 20 minute each flight times for an all-day experience. It takes me 2 hours to recharge. I may fly 4 sessions in a day. This is much simpler to manage close to home and my own bathroom.

The FAA successfully divided the RC community with a campaign of fear. What used to be a welcoming community of people has become a group of scared, old guys trying to hang on to something the FAA has already destroyed.

It is safer for clubs and the AMA to blame copter pilots than to deal with the government that did this. So, all the newbies left.

They are done with the never-ending, always-changing regulations, the fear, accusations and anger and the big, expensive fields that we don't need or use. I can flip my 4" Alien in my shower stall and I launch (and sometimes land) off a 5 gallon paint barrel (snow). Why would I join AMA and a club and pay for part of a $5,000 runway?

So the government will accept me as a pilot? They NEVER will. No matter what I pay, learn or certify. It's a lie. Control, not safety is the purpose of registration.

Smart people already left the hobby or went underground.

IMO club membership will decline regardless of fixed wing or copters. Membership is expensive, buys things I have no use for and FAA regulations make other club members suspicious or outright hostile. Registering as a pilot with the government is hazardous to your health regardless of how you fly. Gatwick proved that.

If you want to get people to your club, end the FAA reign of terror and make clubbing fun again.

It's how kids ended the Soviet Union.

Here's the thing with our club:

1) We're actually growing. We've had new people joining every month since March. And not just older guys, but younger kids. Just, not quad pilots.

2) The government sucks. PERIOD. I don't care which side you're on, Dem, Republican, Libertarian, Green Party, etc. We all want them to do more for us, at the expense of screwing someone else over.

3) Not everyone can fly in a shower stall, so they try to fly at the parks. Then the "Karens" and/or law enforcement show up and chase them out. Offering a flying site (which has a charging station onsite, BTW), and camaraderie of events, auctions, goofing around (in a safe manner, and I know you understand the line of safety and danger, so we don't need to discuss that), is something they SHOULD experience, but many don't because they have the attitude that everyone in the club is a bunch of stuffed shirt old guys, so they don't want to give them a chance.

Honestly? Our club will probably burn up in the next few years because of its flying site being sold off and a Walmart being put in its place instead. But I want to try and keep the hope alive, rather than just giving up. Otherwise, what's the point of even going out to fly?

 

["Corpse"]

I was sitting on the Berlin Wall the night it came down. Kids dancing really did end the Soviet Union. I am very optimistic.

We really do have the power. I have seen it first hand.

I am also practical. The state will retaliate so long as it is permitted to do so. I have seen that first hand too.

I ride a motorcycle but I also wear a helmet. Enjoy life. But don't throw it away on something dumb.

Exactly. I'll fly kwads as much as I can, but I'm not throwing away my or others safety!

 

[Timmy]

How sarcastic

HAH!

 

[Timmy]

This thread is making me too sad! I'm leaving.

 

["Corpse"]

This thread is making me too sad! I'm leaving.

That's the exact opposite of what @sprzout wants you to do! Go build a quad and join his club!