Confused about motors for Mini Arrow

[Chilie]

Hi - I'm about to start building a Mini Arrow as my first ever RC plane, im in the UK so wanted to try and get all the items locally.

I'm ok with most stuff but the motor selection is really confusing me.

The EMaxx 2204 (Power pack F) is available here in the UK but all the info suggests its for quad copters. Is a single one of these really going to be up to the job pushing a mini arrow or are these different some way?

Second point of confusion is they are sold as Clockwise and Counter clockwise and you use 2 of each on a quad copter. If I buy one of these does it matter which I choose - can in not just swap the leads if it goes the wrong way??? if its in pusher config which would be the best to go for?

I have possibly made a mistake in buying a Turnigy 2200KV motor :-
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28403__D2826_6_2200kv_Outrunner_Motor_UK_Warehouse_.html

This seems has max 39 amps so im thinking the flight time on my 1000mah battery is going to be tiny?

Can anyone help me understand whats going on - have I messed up with the Turnigy motor? Will it go into orbit if I use it on the Mini Arrow?

 

[notreallyme]

the 2204 is normally used as a quad motor, yes you can just change 2 of the wires to change direction but the cw and ccw are the directions of the threads so that the nut try's to tighten when ran and not loosen, you can use either but that changes if you use a "normal" or "reverse/pusher" prop so the motor spins the correct way to tighten the nut when giving forward thrust.

i can't comment on the motor in the link as i have no experience with it.

the arrow is a small wing and the 2204 will have plenty of power for it.

 

[Chilie]

Thanks for your help

That clear things up - so I guess I need a CW version as this appears to be a description of the thread rather than the direction of the motor.

Am I right in thinking most regular props need to turn CCW so I need a CW threaded version.
The motor will be in pusher config with a regular prop not a pusher prop.

I am sat here drawing arrows on tubes and trying to orientate things - I think I have it sorted out in my head now but its so confusing - steep learning curve in this hobby for sure.

 

[notreallyme]

if you use a ccw thread you can use "normal" props

 

[akarmy]

The EMaxx 2204 (Power pack F) is available here in the UK but all the info suggests its for quad copters. Is a single one of these really going to be up to the job pushing a mini arrow or are these different some way?

Yep the 2204 pack F motor is perfect for the Mini Arrow. It goes VERY fast with that motor on a 3 cell battery.

 

[Swanno]

I personally use power pack A for my mini Arrow and it flies relatively fast. Power pack F would give it that extra kick for high speed flying, if you don't want to go fast you can just cruise at a lower speed.

 

[Norlin]

if you use a ccw thread you can use "normal" props

Are you sure? I think you mean "normal" props are referred to as CCW (like you say) even though prop spin direction is usually referenced from the point of view of the pilot, which is CW (this is super confusing). But a CCW thread is a left hand tighten thread. If the shaft is pointing away from the pilot, you'd want a right hand turn nut on it to tighten as the prop spins, a right hand turn nut is tightened by spinning it clockwise. So would I be wrong saying that you want a CW motor (given that on a brushless motor, the CW and CCW nomenclature refers solely to the thread and not the rotation of the shaft, since it rotates both ways equally well)? All of the motors I have received have been right hand turn to tighten.

I found this link helpful as it has pictures:
http://blog.oscarliang.net/propeller-shaft-adapter-nuts-cw-ccw/

 

[cranialrectosis]

FT Minis usually have a tilt to the motor mount. I haven't built this one yet, but the other minis I have built (trainer, P51) have a tilt to the motor mount to offset the torque.

Unless you wanna get into changing the motor mount, go CCW with a standard prop. FT has already made that decision 'simple' for you.

That motor is HUGE! A Cobra (arguably top of the line) 2204 weighs about 25g. This motor weighs 50g. A 2204 is 22mm wide and 4mm tall. The one you linked to is 28mm wide and 14mm tall... HUGE. It may not fit the motor mount and will be very heavy if it does.

Cobra motors come with 5mm nyloc stop nuts. With stop nuts you don't have to care about thread direction. I carry a small nail in my flight bag for tightening prop nuts that are not nylocs. Don't use loctite around props. Just tighten the nut and fly.

It's simpler than it looks.

 

[notreallyme]

Are you sure? I think you mean "normal" props are referred to as CCW (like you say) even though prop spin direction is usually referenced from the point of view of the pilot, which is CW (this is super confusing). But a CCW thread is a left hand tighten thread. If the shaft is pointing away from the pilot, you'd want a right hand turn nut on it to tighten as the prop spins, a right hand turn nut is tightened by spinning it clockwise. So would I be wrong saying that you want a CW motor (given that on a brushless motor, the CW and CCW nomenclature refers solely to the thread and not the rotation of the shaft, since it rotates both ways equally well)? All of the motors I have received have been right hand turn to tighten.

I found this link helpful as it has pictures:
http://blog.oscarliang.net/propeller-shaft-adapter-nuts-cw-ccw/

remember a "normal" motor on the front of a plane turns CCW the same motor on a pusher turns CW and needs a reverse/pusher prop, so if you put a CW motor on the front you need rev props but on the back as a pusher it now rotates CCW so you can use "normal" props

 

[notreallyme]

FT Minis usually have a tilt to the motor mount. I haven't built this one yet, but the other minis I have built (trainer, P51) have a tilt to the motor mount to offset the torque.

the arrow mini powerpod has no offset since it is a pusher

 

[cranialrectosis]

Thank you notreallyme. I haven't built that one yet.

 

[nebulous]

You can use either motor, but the type of prop will vary. If you get motor with regular thread (righty-tighty), then on a puller plane you use regular props, and on a pusher plane you use reverse props. These are in good supply thanks to miniquads.

If you get the reverse thread, the reverse applies. For most FT puller designs the thrust angle will be wrong with a reverse-thread motor. The Arrow has no thrust angle, so you're golden with either.

To test whether it'll work out, loosely screw the nut on the motor, then rev it up. If it's spinning the right way for the nut, it'll self-tighten. Then pick the prop that goes with the proper spin direction.

And if all else fails, just use a locknut (or two) and use whichever prop you like.

 

[Chilie]

Thanks all for all the replies - I am impressed by all the knowledge and advice. I thought I had this straight in my head an then someone mentions rotation is normally viewed from the pilots position!!! ARRGGHHH!

Anyway I think I have found a sure fire way to take the stress out of this - Many of the 5" props I am looking at are for Quad copters and come in sets with both CW and CCW props so in buying these im safe whichever way the thread runs I can just swap the prop / motor direction as needed to suit. I think once I have all the bits in my hand it will become clear.

Seems my initial motor is way too big so a lesson learned there. I am going to get the one from the power pack A as a starter as I had a try on an RC flight sim today (Real Flight) and flying these is way harder than I ever imagined. I am also thinking a trainer AC with rudder etc. is a better way to go to learn the controls first instead of the Mini arrow with just elevons. Arrow will have to be my second build though.