Good Morning to you too. I always say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Have to say I'm loving the clear gantry plates on your machine. Is there more detail about this machine posted elsewhere? I'd like to see more of it.
Cutting foam sheets... with a needle!
- Thread starter dkj4linux
- Start date
Good Morning to you too. I always say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Have to say I'm loving the clear gantry plates on your machine. Is there more detail about this machine posted elsewhere? I'd like to see more of it.
wild.bill
New member
The laser started life as a Banggood product but it was to small so I cut new rail's to made it 24" x 36" to cut DTFB. It's a very simple design.
dkj4linux
Elite member
Aw... you beat me to it. I was going to suggest a small aquarium air pump... in fact, just asked my daughter to pick up a pump and hose for me on her near-daily run to the superstore this morning. I should think that might make a dandy, relatively-quiet, and cheap air-assist setup for those who are needing it. And I want to play around with it on my current setup to see what additional benefit I might see. I've also got that 3.5 watt Banggood laser on the slow boat -- that could arrive who-knows-when -- and I'll need something quick-and-dirty for it
-- David
Been kind of quiet the past few days. Love the air assist stuff and want to give it a try...was also thinking about trying an aquarium pump...just have to find the one I have laying around
Anyway, reason I've been quiet is I've been working on this: http://www.instructables.com/id/CNC-Needle-Cutter/
Another Instructables contest that seemed like a good opportunity to help spread the good word of the needle cutter I gave dkj4linux a heads up about it some time back so it's probably no surprise to him (though he had probably assumed I ran out of time and wasn't going to finish an entry!) Not sure how long it will take to get approved and accepted, but I'd appreciate votes when it does as both of the contests I entered it in (CNC and 3D Printing) are closing fairly soon and already have a LOT of great entries.
Anyway, reason I've been quiet is I've been working on this: http://www.instructables.com/id/CNC-Needle-Cutter/
Another Instructables contest that seemed like a good opportunity to help spread the good word of the needle cutter
I gave dkj4linux a heads up about it some time back so it's probably no surprise to him (though he had probably assumed I ran out of time and wasn't going to finish an entry!) Not sure how long it will take to get approved and accepted, but I'd appreciate votes when it does as both of the contests I entered it in (CNC and 3D Printing) are closing fairly soon and already have a LOT of great entries.
wild.bill
New member
Aw... you beat me to it. I was going to suggest a small aquarium air pump... in fact, just asked my daughter to pick up a pump and hose for me on her near-daily run to the superstore this morning. I should think that might make a dandy, relatively-quiet, and cheap air-assist setup for those who are needing it. And I want to play around with it on my current setup to see what additional benefit I might see. I've also got that 3.5 watt Banggood laser on the slow boat -- that could arrive who-knows-when -- and I'll need something quick-and-dirty for it
I actually have the older 2.0 watt TTL Banggood laser but have the 3.5 watt on my wish list for the next time I order. When I get my next frame built I will put the 2.0 watt on the new one and put the 3.5 on the existing frame.
The 2.0 watt has a much finer dot which is real nice to etching pictures, and the 3.5 with more power is better for cutting, so I will end up having a rig for each.
And not only did instructables accept me into both contests, but then also chose to feature my article on the needle cutter on their homepage!
Only 8 days left in the CNC contest so I'd really appreciate any votes I can get to help make sure I have a chance of making it into the finals on that one! 3D printing contest has more time left, and I'd rather win a second CNC than a second 3D printer...but votes there are appreciated as well (not that I expect to win either...but at least one more instructables t-shirt would be nice for my closet!)
Only 8 days left in the CNC contest so I'd really appreciate any votes I can get to help make sure I have a chance of making it into the finals on that one! 3D printing contest has more time left, and I'd rather win a second CNC than a second 3D printer...but votes there are appreciated as well
(not that I expect to win either...but at least one more instructables t-shirt would be nice for my closet!)
dkj4linux
Elite member
Been kind of quiet the past few days. Love the air assist stuff and want to give it a try...was also thinking about trying an aquarium pump...just have to find the one I have laying around
Anyway, reason I've been quiet is I've been working on this: http://www.instructables.com/id/CNC-Needle-Cutter/
Another Instructables contest that seemed like a good opportunity to help spread the good word of the needle cutter
Goodness, Jason! I had forgotten all about that. I though you were off testing and writing about quads and flight controllers...
That's quite the Instructable that you've written up... coulda' almost read this entire thread in the time it took to read the Instructable
Is everything submitted and just waiting on word as to whether it's accepted or not? Yeah, we're off into air-assisting our lasers now. I, too, have an aquarium pump around here (left over from a past SMD soldering "iron" project) but it was well-worth the $10 it took to get a new one to not have to turn this cluttered mess upside down looking for it. Daughter's already delivered it to me so I'm ready to go when I decide to add air-assist "boost" (afterburner?) to my setup
Anyway, I hope you're back and ready to start giving us a hand with our current side-project. I'm trying my hand at engraving a mirror right now. Probably start my Eggbot tomorrow...
-- David
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dkj4linux
Elite member
And not only did instructables accept me into both contests, but then also chose to feature my article on the needle cutter on their homepage!
Only 8 days left in the CNC contest so I'd really appreciate any votes I can get to help make sure I have a chance of making it into the finals on that one! 3D printing contest has more time left, and I'd rather win a second CNC than a second 3D printer...but votes there are appreciated as well
Whaa..a..t? You've already heard back? Where's the link... never mind... just found it. And voted! In both categories!
Everybody needs another t-shirt...
dkj4linux
Elite member
Initial laser engraving test on a cheap mirror... I loosely followed the article here
http://www.vicious1.com/laser-engraving-mirrors/
Since I've been playing with the Garfield image that WildBill wow'd us with... using Image2gcode, full power, 3000 mm/min, on a small mirror with a funny white back...
a bit unexpectedly found that, when back-lit, showed up in "negative"...
loaded the image into Inkscape and figured out how to create a negative image... abused a second mirror with darker gray back, again with 100% power and 3000 mm/min...
was shocked to find, when back-lit, a semi-successful greyscale image appeared...
While not an acceptable image as anything more than a "laboratory curiosity", the result was far better than I was expecting. The tutorial above had said that images really should be binary, black and white... not greyscale. And I largely agree... everything would be "fiddly" and have to be spot-on to do greyscale. But based on these results, I'll have to continue trying with better, more meaningful, images for friends and family.
-- David
http://www.vicious1.com/laser-engraving-mirrors/
Since I've been playing with the Garfield image that WildBill wow'd us with... using Image2gcode, full power, 3000 mm/min, on a small mirror with a funny white back...
a bit unexpectedly found that, when back-lit, showed up in "negative"...
loaded the image into Inkscape and figured out how to create a negative image... abused a second mirror with darker gray back, again with 100% power and 3000 mm/min...
was shocked to find, when back-lit, a semi-successful greyscale image appeared...
While not an acceptable image as anything more than a "laboratory curiosity", the result was far better than I was expecting. The tutorial above had said that images really should be binary, black and white... not greyscale. And I largely agree... everything would be "fiddly" and have to be spot-on to do greyscale. But based on these results, I'll have to continue trying with better, more meaningful, images for friends and family.
-- David
wild.bill
New member
I see you have having some success with Garfield and mirrors, good job. I have tried a little glass engraving and have only done one mirror. I use a 12"x12" mirror on my 3D printer and inverted the name and etched the back of the mirror with it so the name looks normal on the print surface. Not great but a starting point. As with most things it takes a lot of trying and testing before we get the best results.
I actually didn't get to the laser today, I spent the whole day replacing 2 sets of lighting in the printer. One set is RGB led and controller. Now that is done it's back to the laser tomorrow. My wife picked up some round coasters today so I have them to play with and had been planning to do some more glass etching to see if I can refine a technique. I have lots of scrap glass left over from picture framing.
I actually didn't get to the laser today, I spent the whole day replacing 2 sets of lighting in the printer. One set is RGB led and controller. Now that is done it's back to the laser tomorrow. My wife picked up some round coasters today so I have them to play with and had been planning to do some more glass etching to see if I can refine a technique. I have lots of scrap glass left over from picture framing.
I haven't been solely focused on the instructable I did manage to test fly a new yet unreleased flight controller in my hex (worked great - can't wait to tell people about this thing when it hits the market hopefully later this month!) and did some more mirror tests of my own.
I found that greyscale doesn't really work well on mirrors. The problem is mirrors are binary. They reflect or they don't. Etching a greyscale into them does remove less of the mirror surface...but that doesn't really make it less "mirrorry". I noticed that areas that have a lot of detail on the back of the mirror still look all mirror on the front. I think a better approach would be to halftone the image and then burn that. Though I haven't tried it myself yet.
I've been focusing on trying to find the fastest highest quality way to do B&W artwork. Using the inkbot plugin in for crosshatching (found the actual hatch plugin - works way better than inkscapes built in hashing!) I found that I was able to do a very nice version of our MGM logo in wood in 7 minutes. The nice tight crosshatch comes across as almost perfect black. It does almost as well on a mirror...but the mirror doesn't come out quite as defined due to there not being any smoke/burning beyond right where the laser hits. So an even tighter hatch is probably needed for best results on the mirror.
I also compared two faster passes to one slower pass. The two faster passes was very slightly quicker overall and was very slightly more "clear" with more of the mirror backing removed. But it was also less precise and the fine details were not as fine. I found that for my mirror tiles full power at a feedrate of 600 seems to give very good results in a very reasonable amount of time.
Please disregard my messy "library" and laundry room reflected in the actual mirror
The quality is kind of easier to discern from the back with no reflections to get in the way:
Clockwise from the top left:
First try from image2Gcode
demo copy of laser etch from jtech (still the highest quality but slower than the vector methods)
Good results from this weekends test with inkscape hatching.
Decent results from pic engrave pro 5 but not quite as nice as laser etch
2 fast passes
1 slower pass
Lower power test to see how little power is needed to remove the mirror backing.
I've got to the point where I think I have a recipe I like enough that I'd be willing to do a full mirror tile with a logo and it shouldn't take a full day to engrave. But the smell of that pain ablating is just so nasty I still want to rig up a better fume extractor before I attempt it.
I also had some more fun testing on wood. Just really loving the laser. Being so much quieter than anything other than the drag knife and pen it's a lot more fun to test with than the spindle or needle cutter And it can do so many neat things!
Really wanted to work on my vac table again this weekend...but enjoying the silence of the laser and had to get that instructable finished. Plus had to do some actual work this weekend working on some new virtual machines for our designers to help improve their workflow. But I didn't let that get in the way of having some laser fun.
Now...where did I put that fish pump...just had it out a month or two ago....
I did manage to test fly a new yet unreleased flight controller in my hex (worked great - can't wait to tell people about this thing when it hits the market hopefully later this month!) and did some more mirror tests of my own. I found that greyscale doesn't really work well on mirrors. The problem is mirrors are binary. They reflect or they don't. Etching a greyscale into them does remove less of the mirror surface...but that doesn't really make it less "mirrorry". I noticed that areas that have a lot of detail on the back of the mirror still look all mirror on the front. I think a better approach would be to halftone the image and then burn that. Though I haven't tried it myself yet.
I've been focusing on trying to find the fastest highest quality way to do B&W artwork. Using the inkbot plugin in for crosshatching (found the actual hatch plugin - works way better than inkscapes built in hashing!) I found that I was able to do a very nice version of our MGM logo in wood in 7 minutes. The nice tight crosshatch comes across as almost perfect black. It does almost as well on a mirror...but the mirror doesn't come out quite as defined due to there not being any smoke/burning beyond right where the laser hits. So an even tighter hatch is probably needed for best results on the mirror.
I also compared two faster passes to one slower pass. The two faster passes was very slightly quicker overall and was very slightly more "clear" with more of the mirror backing removed. But it was also less precise and the fine details were not as fine. I found that for my mirror tiles full power at a feedrate of 600 seems to give very good results in a very reasonable amount of time.
Please disregard my messy "library" and laundry room reflected in the actual mirror
The quality is kind of easier to discern from the back with no reflections to get in the way:
Clockwise from the top left:
First try from image2Gcode
demo copy of laser etch from jtech (still the highest quality but slower than the vector methods)
Good results from this weekends test with inkscape hatching.
Decent results from pic engrave pro 5 but not quite as nice as laser etch
2 fast passes
1 slower pass
Lower power test to see how little power is needed to remove the mirror backing.
I've got to the point where I think I have a recipe I like enough that I'd be willing to do a full mirror tile with a logo and it shouldn't take a full day to engrave. But the smell of that pain ablating is just so nasty I still want to rig up a better fume extractor before I attempt it.
I also had some more fun testing on wood. Just really loving the laser. Being so much quieter than anything other than the drag knife and pen it's a lot more fun to test with than the spindle or needle cutter
And it can do so many neat things!Really wanted to work on my vac table again this weekend...but enjoying the silence of the laser and had to get that instructable finished. Plus had to do some actual work this weekend working on some new virtual machines for our designers to help improve their workflow. But I didn't let that get in the way of having some laser fun.
Now...where did I put that fish pump...just had it out a month or two ago....
dkj4linux
Elite member
I'm really not too broken up about the greyscale thing... there's plenty of binary stuff out there to have fun with. I found a binary image to quickly engrave using the same settings as previous; i.e. 100% and 3000 mm/min...
I can really see why the "skip white" feature would speed things up on an image like this. I also forgot to turn off the outline and caught a piece of tape down in the corner
-- David
dkj4linux
Elite member
Jason, I'm interested in this "fastest highest quality way to do B&W artwork" as well. But I can't find any info on this "inkbot plugin" you mention... did you by chance really mean the *Eggbot plugin* [for Inkscape]? And I assume the disparity between my 3000 mm/min vs your 600 mm/min is because you are doing vector engraving and I'm doing raster engraving? I must just be especially "dull" this morning...
-- DavidAll this laser talk is really making me anxious to get my parts. Unfortunately, I probably have a couple of weeks waiting for the stuff to arrive yet.
On a much happier note, our company had a very good year so bonus checks were handed out. Now the prudent thing would be to put those away for a rainy day, but I think it would be much more fun to buy a new toy. My wife gave me the thumbs up to buy a new toy (Love her) so I will spend some of it.
I am torn between upgrading my CNC or a 3D printer. I still have an issue where I can not get my CNC square. I have determined that my center assembly is the cause of the issue. For most items it is not a big deal, but when I cut out the FT Guinea Pig some of the parts got ugly as they take up a whole sheet of foam board. I had to doctor the parts afterwards with a razor blade to get things to work out. I was looking at switching to the V-rail (openbuilds CNC) and just reusing my steppers and electronics. This would also allow me to make a bigger work area without worrying about rail sag.
Rob
On a much happier note, our company had a very good year so bonus checks were handed out. Now the prudent thing would be to put those away for a rainy day, but I think it would be much more fun to buy a new toy. My wife gave me the thumbs up to buy a new toy (Love her) so I will spend some of it.
I am torn between upgrading my CNC or a 3D printer. I still have an issue where I can not get my CNC square. I have determined that my center assembly is the cause of the issue. For most items it is not a big deal, but when I cut out the FT Guinea Pig some of the parts got ugly as they take up a whole sheet of foam board. I had to doctor the parts afterwards with a razor blade to get things to work out. I was looking at switching to the V-rail (openbuilds CNC) and just reusing my steppers and electronics. This would also allow me to make a bigger work area without worrying about rail sag.
Rob
dkj4linux
Elite member
Okay... here's a vector Batman (top) and a raster Batman (bottom left)... the vector image used Inkscape/JTech laser (100%, 600 mm/min, 1 pass) and the raster version is Image2gcode (100%, 3000 mm/min).
The vector image engraved much faster than the the raster version (5 minutes vs 45-50 minutes) of course but lacks the "fill" in solid areas. Filling/hatching regular geometric areas I should think far easier than the irregular shape/size areas of the of the vector image... I tried using Eggbot hatching on the vector image last night but it appears impossible to set the hatch fine enough to hatch closed areas of a small image such as this. Any ideas?
Jason, you also mentioned trying multiple faster passes vs a single pass to better "clear" the mirror backing. It looks to me on this vector Batman image that the mirror backing was completely cleared and just needed an alcohol/acetone bath afterwards to clear the remaining residue. Are we talking about the same thing? -- David
The vector image engraved much faster than the the raster version (5 minutes vs 45-50 minutes) of course but lacks the "fill" in solid areas. Filling/hatching regular geometric areas I should think far easier than the irregular shape/size areas of the of the vector image... I tried using Eggbot hatching on the vector image last night but it appears impossible to set the hatch fine enough to hatch closed areas of a small image such as this. Any ideas?
Jason, you also mentioned trying multiple faster passes vs a single pass to better "clear" the mirror backing. It looks to me on this vector Batman image that the mirror backing was completely cleared and just needed an alcohol/acetone bath afterwards to clear the remaining residue. Are we talking about the same thing? -- David
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The eggbot hatching definitely doesn't do as well on small areas. One thing I noticed though is that the settings for it were somewhat tricky. Setting hatch spacing to 0 for example results in no hash not a solid hash. It seems like a 0.5 is the smallest hatch I can do...but my examples were with something more like 1.5 which looks solid in wood but does leave a noticeable hatch in the design on a mirror. Very small hatch spacing like 0.1-0.3 often seems to crash inkscape for me.
BTW - inkscape on macOS is kind of...odd. They build it as a x windows app instead of a native macOS app so you have to install a separate xserver for it since apple has modified the macOS x server to the point that it's not a "real" xserver anymore. As a result when you open it it opens an xserver and then your app, and when you close it you have to use the menu option to close it and then close the xserver. Kind of funny that on the supposedly most user friendly OS inkscape is very confusing and tricky to figure out. ( Side note - I've always had mixed feelings about apple. Loved them in the AppleII days when they did things like publish schematics for their boards and encouraged programmers/hackers...thought macs were cool when they first came out but couldn't afford one. But then in the second coming of Jobs I grew to hate them for how closed they became. OS7 you couldn't pay me to use. When they announced OSX and I learned it was unix based my curiosity was piqued...but the way things are locked to their hardware and how expensive their hardware is has kept me from giving it a fair try. However I just got a macbook from work to help me setup dev environments for our designers who are all mac based...and have to say I'm loving the latest macOS. It still does obnoxious things like mouse scroll being backwards by default and using command instead of ctrl in places where I've been using ctrl since before macs existed - but overall I'm very happy with it. And iTerm2 is a great terminal which lets me jump to the command line where it's my nice relatively normal unix I'm used to. Reminds me a lot of Irix from SGI in how it's a somewhat quirky but overall nice GUI on top of a nice normal unix setup.)
That's what I was talking about...and I thought it looked like it was pretty completely cleared as well after a quick clean with windex. But I saw in the mirror thread on vicious someone commented that running the same code twice gave them a cleaner image so I gave it a try. I thought it looked fully cleared before but running two passes definitely resulted in more light transmission even though I lost fine detail.
You should try laser etch from jtech: https://jtechphotonics.com/?product=laser-etch-bw-image-engraving-sw-license For $30 I'm really considering it. It still does a raster style burn, but it does a great job of speeding it up by skipping areas that don't need to be burned even though it only does B&W not greyscale. My best results on our logo were still done with it. It's faster than img2gcode's raster...but still slower than vector.
Still want to do more tests with the eggbot hatch...it's not perfect. But doing a 3" version of our logo in 10 minutes instead of an hour sure makes me willing to look over the downsides so far
Also...did a few air test last night. I'm using this mount/shroud: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1301138 it doesn't create as much of a tunnel effect as the one Ryan designed...but I was curious if it directs enough air to make a difference. I did a test burn on balsa of a 1" star with the shroud off - just open air laser, then with the shroud on, then with the shroud on and tape across the back to make it more shrouded, and finally with no shroud but me blowing on it (didn't get around to digging up the fish pump and it was too late to make noise with the compressor. I considered using some canned air...but worried about it combusting.)
I didn't get any photos...and they weren't full cuts as all I had on hand was some thicker balsa and I only had it setup for 2 passes which only went about halfway through. But I couldn't really see much of a difference between them. Looking forward to trying again with more air volume to see how it does...but I'm wondering if maybe the fan over my laser is already moving enough air that I'm just not going to see much benefit from additional air. Looking forward to testing though, I love burning wood as I enjoy the smell unlike the mirrors which are horrible smelling :black_eyed:
dkj4linux
Elite member
Hey, Rob! Congrats on the nice bonus... and approving wife!
I know that you've had problems, for quite a while now, getting you MPCNC squared up. Are you using the original printed parts... or the new upgraded parts? I found the machine with upgraded parts far easier to square up than the original... but of course every part (except the feet) would need to be upgraded to address your "squaring up" issues
Assuming you aren't using the upgraded parts for your MPCNC and don't have a 3d printer -- I think I'd go for the 3d printer. Then, at the very least, if you decided to give the upgraded MPCNC a shot, you could relatively cheaply print all the new parts, to see if that doesn't yield a MPCNC that will cut those full DTFB sheets more accurately. I've never noticed "rail sag" being an issue on the full-sheet sized MPCNCs I've built (and mid-span supports are readily available if it was...) but "out of square" would definitely be a show-stopper if I was cutting sheet-sized parts, as you often seem to be doing.
If that doesn't get you up and running, the Openbuilds stuff will still be out there for if/when you decide to spring for a more robust and rigid machine. And you'll also have a 3d printer and small-stuff MPCNC (your laser cutter?) to play with in your spare time
-- David
Hey Guys,
Well done on the mirror engraving. Definitely gonna give that a test. I have a nice big mirror that I'd like to do a decent project on but I need to look out for some el-cheapo mirrors to test on first.
Jason: Fantasic work on the instructable. I've just speed read it (and voted in both categories) (for you of course). Looking forward to reading it in depth with a coffee.
No laser for me today 'cause the fedex man turned up with this bad boy.
I'm bowled over with it. Just worked straight out of the box, just minimal setup and levelling required.
This was my very first print with it using the PLA which came with the printer. I just could not beleive how good it came out, very smooth and detailed. I even got as far as drawing and printing a replacement switch for my wifes MP3 player which had been sitting on the shelf gathering dust. Now she can see the value of the printer by the 70euro mp3 player which has just been resurrected from the dead. A couple more little jobs like that and it will have paid for itself in no time at all.
Rob: My advice is don't throw any more of your hard earned bonus cash at the CNC untill you fully understand what the issue is. I'd go for the printer then you can reprint any dodgy parts for your MPCNC, and hopefully get the best of both worlds.
I'll get back to the laser tomorrow!
Cheers
Dave.
Well done on the mirror engraving. Definitely gonna give that a test. I have a nice big mirror that I'd like to do a decent project on but I need to look out for some el-cheapo mirrors to test on first.
Jason: Fantasic work on the instructable. I've just speed read it (and voted in both categories) (for you of course
). Looking forward to reading it in depth with a coffee.No laser for me today 'cause the fedex man turned up with this bad boy.
I'm bowled over with it. Just worked straight out of the box, just minimal setup and levelling required.
This was my very first print with it using the PLA which came with the printer. I just could not beleive how good it came out, very smooth and detailed. I even got as far as drawing and printing a replacement switch for my wifes MP3 player which had been sitting on the shelf gathering dust. Now she can see the value of the printer by the 70euro mp3 player which has just been resurrected from the dead. A couple more little jobs like that and it will have paid for itself in no time at all.
Rob: My advice is don't throw any more of your hard earned bonus cash at the CNC untill you fully understand what the issue is. I'd go for the printer then you can reprint any dodgy parts for your MPCNC, and hopefully get the best of both worlds.
I'll get back to the laser tomorrow!
Cheers
Dave.
dkj4linux
Elite member
Wow, Dave! Congratulations on the new printer. I am sincerely impressed at that hand sculpture you did... that is fantastic! I don't think I've ever done anything that looks that good... makes me want to start thinking I need another 3d printer, one of those Wanhao beasts, maybe? And to have already impressed the wife... priceless. Kudos to you, sir! -- David
David, I take no credit for the CAD on the hand. The file was on the SD card which came with the printer. What impressed me the most was the MP3 player switch it measures 13.3 x 3.3 x 1.5mm and has 3 0.75 x 0.75mm prongs. It's too small to photograph properly, but the fidelty the printer reproduced at was extraordinary. I was thinking "This is never going to work", but it did!
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