Disservice to customers

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Kingbird

Posting Elsewhere
Hey FT guys! Why do you sell stuff with absolutely no instructions how to use it? I'm talking about the servo centering device and the low voltage alarm. Have you read the reviews of these items that all your potential customers are reading? One review after another complaining that there are no instructions included with these devices. I have bought both of these items thinking that I could figure out how to use them. Wrong! The servo centering tool is a waste of money. I was able to find some help from another member on the forum for the low voltage alarm.

There's a whole lot of vendors out there who don't give a crap about their clients...just what they can sell and make a buck on. I know this isn't what makes you guys tick but from your treatment of us on these items I can't help but wonder. Take a clue here please. Print up a little instruction sheet and put it into the package with these items when you ship them out. If you've gotta raise the price a buck then do so but don't sell stuff that way ... you're blowing your credibility.

Thanks!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Whilst I understand your frustration I feel you are being a little harsh towards the FT crew. You would be better venting your wrath at the actual cause of your issue which is the manufacturer.

The manufacturer doesn't supply the instructions and FT supplied all of the parts and information it comes with. If the manufacturer supplied instructions then the prices of the units at a wholesale level would be equal for every re-seller and so they could all compete on a level playing field. If FT was to suddenly incur the additional cost of printing and supplying instructions then they would either be too expensive or possibly even make a loss on each item sold and we all want things as cheap as possible.

If I buy anything without instructions and that sadly is a lot of things nowadays I ALWAYS look on line for details, instructions, or manuals. Your beef whilst legit in its own way is GROSSLY misdirected and when your anger dissipates I hope you will revisit this post and correct your error.
 

moebeast

Member
I remember seeing Josh explain the use of a servo tester on more than one video. A link to one of them on the item page would be helpful, but a quick search on YouTube also provides plenty of help.

The first time I used a servo tester was at FliteFest 2015 while building my daughter's Tiny Trainer. I absently grabbed a 3S battery based on the JST connector. That is a quick way to remove all the insulation from your servo wires.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
The removal of the insulation from the servo wires made me smile, it also reminded me of the time my son discovered a surefire method of removing the insulation from the ESC battery leads when he FORCED the JST equipped battery onto the ESC connector the wrong way around.

He saw the smoke rising up and turned to me and asked what had I done to his plane, (it had just been put back together the night before). I saw the smoke and quickly ripped the battery from the plane and it flew a few metres and hit the ground still smoking. The fuselage was still hot to the touch.

After a fair while we retrieved the battery and added some insulation tape to the ESC and Battery wires. When we tested the battery is was still about half charged so we plugged it in and everything was still working. Some people have more luck than IQ points. He is not allowed to plug batteries in any more without supervision. :rolleyes:
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
The beauty of FliteTest is not the store. The beauty of FliteTest is not the show. The beauty of FliteTest is not the forums or the articles.

The beauty and magic of FliteTest is the whole community together. Without the other parts, no single part is self sufficient. Together we are FliteTest.

I totally get your frustration and have been there myself many times. I think the more you buy parts made in China the more you will experience poor (Chinglish) or no instructions. Chinese value comes at a cost.

Thankfully, here at FliteTest, we have these forums. When you have a question, please post your question on these forums. If/when that question gets answered, EVERYONE world wide gets the answer in a format searchable and translatable by Google.

For every question you have, there are 3 newbies out there still winding up the courage to post and ask. Asking a question is not a burden here. Asking a question here is an asset to the community.

Dear OP,

How can we help you get the value out of the parts and tools you have purchased?
 
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Liam B

Well-known member
I believe that there are instructions on the back of the low voltage alarm (the side without the screen). Mine had them, but China seems to change their minds daily, so yours might not.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
My advise is to simply be smarter then the inanimate objects you are working with. If for some reason you are not maybe a bit of research BEFORE trying to use it. I am betting it took longer for the op to post the rant then it would have to do a google or even a you tube search.

I try to be smarter then the things I am working with by reading up and researching it before I even purchase it. Then again as I install it and or use it the first time.

When things do not go as planned I walk away grab a fresh cup of coffee and start posting my questions here. Most times I have replies before that cup of coffee is done and on more then one occasion had the answer in that time frame. (which reminds me FT we REALLY need a "Coffee" emote here) I don't proverbially bite the hand that feeds us after all they freely give to this community. If you change your mindset you will find they normally bend over backwards to try and resolve issues with their products if you respectfully ask for the help.
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
The beauty of FliteTest is not the store. The beauty of FliteTest is not the show. The beauty of FliteTest is not the forums or the articles.

The beauty and magic of FliteTest is the whole community together. Without the other parts, no single part is self sufficient. Together we are FliteTest.

I totally get your frustration and have been there myself many times. I think the more you buy parts made in China the more you will experience poor (Chinglish) or no instructions. Chinese value comes at a cost.

Thankfully, here at FliteTest, we have these forums. When you have a question, please post your question on these forums. If/when that question gets answered, EVERYONE world wide gets the answer in a format searchable and translatable by Google.

For every question you have, there are 3 newbies out there still winding up the courage to post and ask. Asking a question is not a burden here. Asking a question here is an asset to the community.

Dear OP,

How can we help you get the value out of the parts and tools you have purchased?
I'd like to echo this. The value of the community is indisputable.

Kingbird, thank you for your critique and suggestion. I've been there and will surely be again. May we, the FT community who stand by our name and the creators of it, assist you?
—Jim
 
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Kingbird

Posting Elsewhere
Thank you all for the posts above and, for the most part, I completely agree with your sentiments. I have absolutely no issue with the FT team and I admire almost everything they do and stand for. However, as I stated in my original post, there are a lot of vendors selling stuff without any care for their clients. I hate to see the FT crew lumped in with those vendors. In this case their inaction in response to the negative reviews of these items indicates that they either, A) don't read the reviews about the products they are selling or, B) don't care what their clients are thinking.

To illustrate the point I am making: I continue to order my servos from FT store even though I can save a buck by buying a similar servo from HK. I do this because of the very fact that I believe in the FT team and believe they won't sell something they can't support and don't believe in. I would pay a buck more for a low voltage alarm to cover the cost of providing some instructions. I mean they could even make a couple of short videos and post them on YouTube. Then put a sticker on the packaging directing the purchaser to the appropriate video. I can't imagine that would cost all that much.

The bottom line to this is responsiveness to a bunch of negative reviews. FT needs to let their clients know that they care about what they are selling and what their customers think about those items.
 
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FlyingMonkey

Bought Another Trailer
Staff member
Admin
Hi there Kingbird.

Have you figured out how the tester works yet?

If no, I'll be glad to help you.

If yes, then feel free to make your own video and shoot me a link. I will use that video whenever someone asks for assistance with the servo testers.
 

Kingbird

Posting Elsewhere
Hi there Kingbird.

Have you figured out how the tester works yet?

If no, I'll be glad to help you.

If yes, then feel free to make your own video and shoot me a link. I will use that video whenever someone asks for assistance with the servo testers.

Nope, no clue how to connect it and make it work. I don't know how, nor do I intend, to spend my time making a video to help another business sell its products. I know your intentions are good but understand that I am a businessman too. I am responsible for making sure my products and services meet the needs of my customers. As much as I may like what y'all are doing FT is still a money making capital enterprise and it is responsible for meeting the needs of their clients. Its not their customer's responsibility to do their job for them.

I have shelved the servo tester. Now I simply hook up my Rx to the servo and that centers it just fine. Little gizmo looks cool but IMO is just another gadget of about zero value. I appreciate the offer of help but it's become a small paperweight now and a waste of a couple bucks.
 
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moebeast

Member
From the reviews on the servo tester: "Plug a 5V power source into the pin group marked S4 on the left side of the tool. Red cable to +, black cable to -, and nothing on the third pin. I use a variable power supply on my workbench. I also have a 5v wall plug with a 2 pin JST connector soldered onto the wires. You can also run this off the receiver cable coming from your ESC if its hooked up to a lipo battery. Your ESC generally provides 5V on those wires via it's BEC (google this). DONT hook up your LIPO battery directly!!! Once you have power, you can plug a servo onto any of the three other pin sets. Manual lets you rotate the servo. Neutral automatically moves the servo to center. Automatic moves the servo back and forth continuously. Generally you use this tool to find neutral so you know where to center the servo arm.
— Adam Watts on 1st Dec 2016 "

I use mine for controlling motors more than servos. Just plug the lead from the esc into any channel (s1-s4), put the switch in manual, turn the knob to 0 and apply power to the esc. After it arms, turn the knob to control motor speed. This is useful for checking rotation, running motors an the thrust stand, and mostly for my cnc mounted needle cutter.
 

moebeast

Member
Hi there Kingbird.

Have you figured out how the tester works yet?

If no, I'll be glad to help you.

If yes, then feel free to make your own video and shoot me a link. I will use that video whenever someone asks for assistance with the servo testers.

Fred, Josh's instructions are in the Mighty-Mini Mustang build video at 39:00 if you want to pass that along. He shows how to use the balance connector to power the tester from any lipo.

Moebeast, (You may remember me as Gretchen's dad)
 

FlyingMonkey

Bought Another Trailer
Staff member
Admin
(Note, the views in this post are purely my own and may not reflect the views of Flite Test, or the members of Flite Test.)

I'm sorry Doug, then I'm confused.

I thought the point of your post was that you were concerned with the well being of Flite Test the company and that's why you had raised the point that there was room for improvement, and you were offering a solution to that situation.

You clearly took the time to search out reviews, because you pointed out that there is "one review after another". You also took the time to post your comments here. So you have invested time in this device.

The other option is that you're intent is merely to try to do harm to Flite Test for some reason. Which, as a business owner, you should see the irony that you claim you don't want to take the time to "help another business sell it's products" yet you want to use that company's resources (this forum) not to offer help, but instead try to slander them (associating Flite Test with "vendors that don't give a crap about their clients"). You try to imply that Flite Test is mistreating customers. And you conclude your post with the opinion that Flite Test is "blowing their credibility".

While this is the "suggestion and complaints" section, you're taking your own frustration at yourself for not being able to figure out how to use a rather simple device, and taking that anger out by hurling baseless insults at Flite Test. Instead of using this forum in a positive manner, and taking advantage of the access to the shared knowledge here that Flite Test provides, you waste that resource by instead hurling insults in a misdirected rant.



This forum isn't the best fit for everyone. We encourage people who are here to seek assistance when needed, or to provide assistance if they can. This forum is populated by people who remember how challenging it was for them to get into this hobby. Many received assistance and encouragement from other people on this forum and take pride in being able to help the next generation by taking the knowledge they gained here, or through their own experiences and passing that on to the people who come where looking for aid.

Trolling, or just negativity is not something that we want promoted here. People who have difficulty with this will be asked to go elsewhere.




All of that said, Flite Test as a business and as a community is a strongly DIY driven group. Maybe your frustration stems from the fact that you provide a service based business, home pest control. It's not a business model that is meant to put the product into the customer's hands and let them try to explore the use of the product on their own. Considering the potential danger of the materials you use, that would be highly irresponsible. So to see a company do that exact thing may be what bothers you, I don't know.






The lack of printed directions for what I would argue is a relatively self explanatory device is what you decided to break out your soap box for.


So, let's take this servo tester for example. In my personal opinion the people in this hobby need a certain level of deductive skills to be able to be successful, and the tester does offer the information a user needs to be able to use it, printed right on the housing of the device. If this device proves too difficult to operate for someone, then this is a hobby that is likely going to be a long and frustrating struggle for that person.

There's a series of pins that accept the connectors from servos. The knowledge of what +, -, and "servo" or signal represent in regard to wiring is needed.

There's a dial.

There's a 3 position switch.

+ and - are dual purpose here. Those pins can either accept the input of power, from a source like a battery or an ESC (electronic speed control, but it needs to be one equipped with a BEC battery eliminator circuit which will provide 5v of DC power). How do you know what voltage? Well, there's labelling there that tells you 4.5 volts to 6 volts.

+ and - are also indicating that those pins accept the red and black (red is the representative color for + power supply, and black is the representative color for negative when using a DC power source)

The 3 position switch is a little more tricky. There's 3 values there, Manual, Neutral, and Automatic. The manual setting allows you to move the servo, manually. Automatic will cause the servo to travel from one extent of it's range to the other without manual input from the user. Neutral will set the servo to it's center point.

View attachment 83525

servo tester guide.jpg

Now, I'll agree that many of the audience (and customers) are new to the hobby. Instead of merely providing printed instructions that may not be as easy to follow as the labels on the servo tester, Flite Test has several instructional videos, an articles section where a person could go for the needed information. Flite Test also provides a forum, and an email based customer service team that can provide one on one assistance.

I would argue that there's few companies in this hobby that does as much to service their customers than Flite Test. This is reflected in the community of people who choose to support Flite Test. Which is why I am impressed at the community here once again at their grace and restraint. In the face of anger and negativity they have offered guidance and assistance. You continue to refuse to accept it. In once sentence you claim respect for Flite Test, and then follow it with accusing FT of not caring about it's clients. I can only conclude you don't actually have any interest in using the product, getting assistance with the product, or using the tools Flite Test provides at their expense to help their customers help themselves. This thread reminds me of a video about trying to provide assistance...

 
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FlyingMonkey

Bought Another Trailer
Staff member
Admin
Fred, Josh's instructions are in the Mighty-Mini Mustang build video at 39:00 if you want to pass that along. He shows how to use the balance connector to power the tester from any lipo.

Moebeast, (You may remember me as Gretchen's dad)

Thanks Gretchen's Dad!

Did you make it down to the Perry swap meet this year? We need to have an unoffical FT meet up for those of us living here in the south east. Summer is out for me, but maybe something this fall?
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
It's not about the nail... LMAO.

Gonna bookmark this video and keep it like the Vertical Video Syndrome one. :)

FM has a good point. I also cannot speak for everyone here. What follows are just the ruminations of a self avowed butthead.

FliteTest is a collaborative effort. Our hobby is just too big for just the show or the store. The FliteTest crew is fantastic but they constantly defer to viewers, buyers and these forums for expertise and ideas. Many of the items in the store are the result of requests from us. When I came here, most of the store didn't exist. We asked, they built it and still, today, the plans for the foamie kits FT sells are available online for free.

IMO it is this collaboration with an ingenious and diverse group of selfless, altruistic people that makes FliteTest special.

So many of us have been where you are. Please take the responses here as an olive branch. Recognize where you are and the role you are being invited to play because throughout all these posts, I see invitation after invitation.

They say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Dear OP, you are invited to, IMO, the best watering hole in the entire RC flight world. It isn't perfect. The beauty of FliteTest is that we embrace that fact and encourage participation to make things better for everyone worldwide.

My first FliteTest build was a disaster. I ranted and raved and was offered this same olive branch. The FliteTest family opened my eyes with an offer. I took it and it has made me a better man.

It's not about stuff. It's about being part of something larger than yourself with high and altruistic goals and being surrounded by people who have overcome their own problems and want to help you help others to overcome problems too. It is when we forget ourselves and work together to help others that we become the best people we can be. It isn't easy. It's hard. That is the point.

This thread is full of examples of what FliteTest truly is, a chance to take yourself and others to new heights and to be better than you were. This is the invite. Flying stuff is just the excuse.

Come on in, man. The water here is fine. :)
 
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Kingbird

Posting Elsewhere
Thank you for taking the time to reply and for the thorough explanation. I especially appreciated the attachment that showed a nice red box containing instructions as to the use of the servo tester. Would it be too difficult to include a link to that image in the FT store's description of the unit? This goes to the root of what compelled me to start this thread. There are a large number of negative comments in the reviews of the unit, and although most purchasers ultimately did figure it out, nearly every negative comment cited this lack of instructions. The very existence of the attachment illustrates how incredibly simply and quickly these complaints could be addressed and those frustrations averted. But no one is doing that.

And yes, we could all watch build videos and eventually learn what we need to know - but who knew it was mentioned at minute 39 of one of the multiple videos FT has put out there? Really? I certainly don't have time to dig out answers to questions that should have been included with the item I purchased. It would be such a simple thing to add a link to the image you posted in the item description in FT store. Simple problem and a very simple and easy solution.

Almost every response to my post seems more directed to blunting my point than in honestly listenting to what I am trying to say and addressing it. I have been involved in a customer service related industry for nearly 45 years. If I kept getting negative comments about one of the services we offer you can bet I'd jump on that in a heartbeat and fix it. I would not blow off the clients as cranky complainers.

What this thread is all about is that I am trying to help FT here by taking them to school on customer service. It would be to their benefit if they would listen instead of blowing me off as a cranky old fart who's frustrated. Quite frankly I don't give a hoot for the couple of bucks that gizmo cost me. As stated above I've learned to bypass the unit and don't really care about its value or lack thereof. What I do give a hoot about is a disconnect in how the FT team appears in their videos compared to their business practices. Understand that in no way do I believe this is intentional. But to receive numerous negative comments about something they are selling and to do nothing about the source of those comments is a customer relations problem. Periodic monitoring of the reviews of their products should be included in someone's job description. Image is everything in business and attention to details like this helps a small business become a large business.

I do wish you well.
 
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PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Seriously?

Sir I gotta say.. if you are in the customer support business I feel sorry for your clients. Not one person here has berated you in any way. You came to us and made the statement how bad Flite Test is at what they do.Most have tried not only to let you know that if you have an issue that Flite Test as a company WILL aid you should you decide to contact them and present your problem in a respectful manor. Instead you came here spewing false and VERY unwaranted rantings.

There is not one place here or on their show that they don't and we don't repeatedly state this is all done for new people. I am sorry if the VERY basic of things has set you for a loop but everything sold, mentioned, or talked about for the most part is basic RC things that one should already know before buying into the hobby or at the very least have the sense to research even the tiniest bit before spending money on something. ANYTHING for that matter not only RC stuff.

You are now saying we don't get what you are saying. We do.. you are regurgitating statements proving that you are either not ready for the hobby mentally as well as emotionally or that you are here to instigate things intentionally.

This community bends over backwards to help people and most will not be provoked into a pissin contest which is what at this point I (me myself and I, NOT Flite test or the people who run this forum) think you are doing. You sir are not "Schooling" anyone on customer service. You are only making yourself look like a jerk at this point so on behalf of the community I ask you to please stop. Continuing this path of the whiny child does not cut it any longer.

If you feel you have a legitimate problem stop posting in here and write a detailed respectful email to FT proper and let them decide from there what to do.
 
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Liam B

Well-known member
Any more negativity on this and you might need to move to the behind the field shed! :p
 

Kingbird

Posting Elsewhere
Sir I gotta say.. if you are in the customer support business I feel sorry for your clients.
If you feel you have a legitimate problem stop posting in here and write a detailed respectful email to FT proper and let them decide from there what to do.

We have the most highly rated company in our industry in our service area. That service area covers a population base of approx. 1 million people. Our customers have done a fine job of reflecting how well we deal with them and respond to their concerns.

This thread is Site Suggestions/Complaints. I would assume FT didn't create this unless they wanted to receive honest suggestions or complaints about how their site is operating and/or serving their clients. I assume they are reading this and hope they understand my comments contain a clear description of a specific problem and very specific suggestions for rectification of that problem.

I hope that is the case. I do understand the connection their team has made with the community and this certainly explains why so many here are taking my observations as a personal attack on the FT team, A careful reading of what I actually have written (rather than knee-jerk reactions to a fast skim and then conclusion jumping) would probably put an end to this.
 
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