EDGE 540 help......

[Human]

Sorry for the lack of an update.

I was able to fly my edge, first flight lasted all of 10 seconds, only small damage, next flight was maybe 15 seconds but it hit the ground hard wings in half, firewall bent, motor mount pushed over, and elevator MIA. At that point I thought I had forgotten how to fly and just put everything in a corner. My UMX Yak 54 3D did end up showing up and I took it out for a flight and I was able to hoover/knife edge and really just fly crazy with no issue at all.

So I rebuilt the Edge this time I glued down the wings, tripped checked everything, made it slight nose heavy, took off the 10x7 prop and put on a 10x5, and setup duel rates. I'm not 100% for sure what changed, but I had 4 successful flights today and I love the plane. The fact that I did so much damage to it and was able to fix it for under $2.40 and 2 glue sticks is crazy in my mind.

I do have a few issues from today flight, and hoping for some input.

1- I'm only getting 3-4mins flight times out of a 4S- 1500mAh battery does this seem right? 90% of my time is spend just normal flying at 1/2 throttle, but i was hoping to get around 5mins out of them. ( it does seem like it going around 40mph at 1/2 )

2- At full throttle the plane wants to shoot straight up, its kinda not flyable at full throttle, any clue on what is going on?

 

[PsyBorg]

I would look at the wing and elevator. Make sure they are center lined on the same plane. If you glued your main wing in with any angle of attack or if the elevator is not perpendicular to the motor line it will do that. Everything has to be perfectly straight in line for a 3d plane.

 

[skymaster]

The OG Edge 540 is a tad under powered but fly able. if you have previous skills it probably wont be enough for advanced 3d flying so the choice on the power pack is open. Im not sure what motor to step up to as when I researched motors there is a huge gap between the power pack motor and the next available sizes as far I as found. Im in the same boat now.

One other thing is the nose of the edge is the hardest part to build AND the weakest on the air frame. Its a great design except for that. When I rebuilt my nose I doubled the foam up front and added structural bracing underneath.

View attachment 170901

I wonder if the whole nose can be made out with a 3d printer. strong and durable. designed to be remobable with a few screws

 

[The Hangar]

Sorry for the lack of an update.

I was able to fly my edge, first flight lasted all of 10 seconds, only small damage, next flight was maybe 15 seconds but it hit the ground hard wings in half, firewall bent, motor mount pushed over, and elevator MIA. At that point I thought I had forgotten how to fly and just put everything in a corner. My UMX Yak 54 3D did end up showing up and I took it out for a flight and I was able to hoover/knife edge and really just fly crazy with no issue at all.

So I rebuilt the Edge this time I glued down the wings, tripped checked everything, made it slight nose heavy, took off the 10x7 prop and put on a 10x5, and setup duel rates. I'm not 100% for sure what changed, but I had 4 successful flights today and I love the plane. The fact that I did so much damage to it and was able to fix it for under $2.40 and 2 glue sticks is crazy in my mind.

I do have a few issues from today flight, and hoping for some input.

1- I'm only getting 3-4mins flight times out of a 4S- 1500mAh battery does this seem right? 90% of my time is spend just normal flying at 1/2 throttle, but i was hoping to get around 5mins out of them. ( it does seem like it going around 40mph at 1/2 )

2- At full throttle the plane wants to shoot straight up, its kinda not flyable at full throttle, any clue on what is going on?

Glad to hear you got some successful flights on it! The paint job looks really really good as well. In the crash/repair did the motor have a change in thrust angle? If the motor is pointing slightly up, then it would go straight up at full throttle. Also, flight times sound about right. On my eflite extra 300 I get 2 minutes on a 1500 4s and about 3 on a 2200 4s. On my edge I’ll go for about 5 minutes on a 2200 3s.

 

[PsyBorg]

I wonder if the whole nose can be made out with a 3d printer. strong and durable. designed to be remobable with a few screws

3d printed would look great but if you fly anything like me all you would produce of value is more dramatic explosions for any video that may be happening when you nose in. Just double up the flat plate under the motor mount and do a few structural supports underneath of that like the op has done.

The cowl is the hardest thing to do on this build so my suggestion would be to improvise a more simple boxy type like normal FT planes at least until you get to the point your skills progress to infrequent crashing.

 

[Human]

I would look at the wing and elevator. Make sure they are center lined on the same plane. If you glued your main wing in with any angle of attack or if the elevator is not perpendicular to the motor line it will do that. Everything has to be perfectly straight in line for a 3d plane.

I'm going to have to take a look at it, and bust out the tape tape measure lol.

Glad to hear you got some successful flights on it! The paint job looks really really good as well. In the crash/repair did the motor have a change in thrust angle? If the motor is pointing slightly up, then it would go straight up at full throttle. Also, flight times sound about right. On my eflite extra 300 I get 2 minutes on a 1500 4s and about 3 on a 2200 4s. On my edge I’ll go for about 5 minutes on a 2200 3s.

I did have to make a new firewall/motor mount so all of that is new, but I could of cut it wrong lol. Right now I'm on a 10x5 prop would going to a 9x6 or something else help with longer battery life? or is the best option going with a bigger batter? I could order a 2200mAh 3s or 4S, if you think that might get me 4-5mins of flight time..


As always thanks everyone for all the help.

 

[The Hangar]

I'm going to have to take a look at it, and bust out the tape tape measure lol.



I did have to make a new firewall/motor mount so all of that is new, but I could of cut it wrong lol. Right now I'm on a 10x5 prop would going to a 9x6 or something else help with longer battery life? or is the best option going with a bigger batter? I could order a 2200mAh 3s or 4S, if you think that might get me 4-5mins of flight time..


As always thanks everyone for all the help.

A 2200 pack (either 3s or 4s) will definitely give you linger flight times.

 

[herbertjalarcon]

I fly the Edge 540 nearly every day with the Power pack C and a 4S and I have plenty of power...I'm not an expert 3d flyer, but I can throw it around well...you just have to remember this is a full fused plane...most 3d planes I see are the profile type, which are way over-powered for any kind of realistic 3d flying... Just my 2 cents...

 

[Human]

Small update and more questions.

I have been able to fly the plane 8 more times since the last update, and I'm a huge fan of it. I was able to fix the plane from shooting up at full throttle, I added a small washer behind the top motor mount screw and that took care of it.

I had a buddy 3d print the RedBull wings tips, and I really like them, the plane flies a lot better in the wind in my own opinion now.

Now onto my questions
1- I can only touch the motor for maybe 2-3 seconds after a flight, is that normal? I'm using a 10x5e APC prop, I do have a 9x7.5 on order, but should I try a 9x6 or 9x4.5?

2- I can't get this plane to knife edge at all, it just wants to roll back into level flight, any clue on what I'm doing wrong? I thought It could have been the RedBull wings tips so I took them off, same issue, tried to even put on the side force generators that come in the kit and it does the same thing.

As always thanks for the help.

 

[PsyBorg]

back when I was gearing up to learn to fly mine I did a lot of research to see how to fix various bad tendencies of air planes. specifically 3d. I had trouble getting my FT 3d to not tip stall all the time before I found out I am just to chicken on the throttle. Anyways I came across this check list to set up / trouble shoot a 3d plane that may be of help.

Test for

Procedure

Results

Adjustments
Control Neutrals test response to each control Adjust trims for straight & level flight adjust clevises to center xmter trims
Control Throws
Apply full deflection of each control
Check for response; Aileron hi rate 3 rolls in 3 secs. Elevator, square loop corners Rudder, 35 to 40 Deg.
Change control horns, ATV, and Duel Rates as required
Center of Gravity Method 1
Method 2
1. Roll into a vertically banked turn
2. Roll into inverted flight
1. A. Nose Drops 1. B. Tail Drops
2. A. lot of down required to hold level flight
2. B. up elevator needed to hold level flight
A. Add tail weight
B. Add Nose weight
(see Note A at bottom)
Up/ Down Thrust, test 1
Fly model straight & level, then cut throttle Note Either change B or C requires retest of Decalage and Verticals
A. Model continues level flight with a gradual drop
B.Model abruptly dives
C. Model abruptly climbs
A. No Change
B. Increase down thrust
C. Reduce down thrust
Up/Down Thrust, test 2
Fly model straight & level, then pull up Note Either change B or C requires retest of Decalage and Verticals
A.Model continues straight up
B.Model pulls to canopy
C.Model pulls to belly
A. No Adjustment
B. Increase down thrust
C. Reduce down thrust
Decalage, Angle of Incidence
Power off vertical dive from high altitude (neutralize elevator) (see Note B at bottom)
A. Model continues straight down
B. Model pulls to canopy
A. No change needed
B. Increase wing or stab incidence
Page 1
Trimming Chart
Incidence
(see Note B at bottom)
C. Model pulls to belly C. Reduce wing or stab incidence
Knife Edge Pitch
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not change pitch
B. Model pitches to canopy
C. Model pitches to belly
A. No adjustment needed
B. Either move CG aft; or increase wing incidence; or mix down elevator with rudder
C. Reverse of B;
Tip Weight - Test1
Fly straight; level, roll inverted, release aileron stick
A. Model does not drop a wing
B. Left wing drops
C. Right wing drops
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to right tip
C. Add weight to left tip
Tip Weight - Test 2
Fly model towards you / away from you, pull tight inside loop, repeat with outside loop
A. Model comes out with wings level
B.Model comes out with right wing low
C. Model comes out with left wing low
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to left tip
C. Add weight to right tip
Side Thrust Fly model away from you and pull up to vertical
A. Model continues straight up
B. Model veers left
C. Model veers right
A. No Adjustment
B. Increase Right thrust
C. Reduce Right thrust
Aileron Differential
Fly model toward you, pull into a vertical climb before it reaches you. Neutralize controls then half roll .
A. No Heading Changes
B. Heading change opposite to roll command
C. Heading change in direction of roll command
A. Differential settings OK
B. Increase differential
C. Decrease differential
Dihedral
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not roll
B. Model rolls indirection of rudder
C. Model rolls opposite to rudder
A. Dihedral OK
B. Reduce dihedral
C. Increase dihedral
Page 2
Trimming Chart

Note A:These two methods for determining the C.G. of a model will give approximate results only. Start out with the C.G. where the Designer suggested, or somewhere between 25% to 35% of the Mean Aerodynamic Cord. The optimum C.G. for your model will require further testing while performing maneuvers. The results will only be an approximation at best.
Note B:This portion of the trimming chart may be unclear for the following reason; In order to maintain level upright flight, the wing of a plane with a symmetrical airfoil wing needs to have a positive Angle of Attack (AOA, usually less than 1 degree). This positive angle provides the lift required to cause the plane to fly level. If the plane is balanced slightly to the nose heavy side (required for pitch stability), it will require a slight up elevator trim to hold level flight. A plane with a zero/ zero wing to elevator angle will also need a slight amount of up elevator trim to hold level flight. Therefore, a plane trimmed in this manner will have a tendency to pull to the canopy on a straight, thumbs off, down line because the elevator is controlling the AOA of the wing.
This positive AOA may also be achieved by a positive incidence change, which requires an offsetting down elevator for level flight. Thus, a power-off down line should fall straight down, with neutral controls. There are significant interactions between wing incidence changes and CG, therefore it is most important that the C.G. of the airplane be established first.
In the final analysis, flight trimming an airplane is a personal preference issue after you have taken care of the basic essentials

 

[PsyBorg]

According to that list you have dihedral in the wing.

Dihedral
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not roll A. Dihedral OK
B. Model rolls indirection of rudder B. Reduce dihedral
C. Model rolls opposite to rudder C. Increase dihedral

 

[Human]

According to that list you have dihedral in the wing.

Dihedral
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not roll A. Dihedral OK
B. Model rolls indirection of rudder B. Reduce dihedral
C. Model rolls opposite to rudder C. Increase dihedral

That is a great list, I'm going to save it. I think I have B, when I try to knife edge it, the top of the plane is facing me and it wants to roll to upright itself. It also feel like the rudder is just over powering the plane, like maybe I need to take some throw out of it or try to add less rudder. I'm not sure 100 sure yet, its such a fast small plane you can get into trouble easy, so I need to fly it a lot more.


Here is a video of one of my flights.

 

[PsyBorg]

@Human Im going to say that is not the 3s 2200 recommendation for the plane hehe. The way that prop sings I have to ask if it is a slow fly prop or not. You got the power but it seems your RPM is wayy too high. What kv motor you running. I would think much over 900 kv is to much rpm not enough torque. You should be able to high alpha the edge slow enough to walk next to it as you go.

Also I THINK I see some thrust angle issues going on as well. When you roll fast the tail drifts out of line pretty fast.

I would go right down that list and test fly each condition and solve the issues in order. I forget who the pilot was I copied that from but he was a big name sponsored pilot if I remember correctly.

 

[Human]

@PsyBorg its not slow for sure lol. I do think my prop is wrong, because after a flight I can only hold my fingers on the motor for a few seconds before it becomes too hot. The motor specs says it needs a 10x7 to 11x7 Electric Prop, and the plane say it needs a 9x4.5 on 4S. (Could moving to a 10x7 help cool off the motor? I would think it would make it hotter)


https://www.apcprop.com/product/10x5e/
Prop is a 9X5E

http://www.greatplanes.com/motors/gpmg4505.php
Motor -Rimfire .15 35-36-1200 Outrunner Brushless
kV1200
Constant Watts-500
Burst Watts-650

https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMXAE1060
ECS- Spektrum RC Avian 60 Amp 3-6S Smart

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-1500mah-4s-75c-lipo-pack.html
Battery 4s, 1500mAh

 

[PsyBorg]

The motor you are using is way bigger then the stock motor. These are designed with the power pack C in mind.
https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-power-pack-c-radial-edition-flt-3061/p983487

That is only a 2218 with a 10x4 on 3s. I think someone has used that set up on 4s with a 9x6 reliably and got the power needed to do full on 3d. I built mine on the original power pack C and mine seemed to do Ok power wise but Im not a fixed wing pilot yet. Still need to break that first full pack barrier. Next time I take it out I will go 4s on the same set up. I just need to acquire the right props first.

The only way to really tell about power is a watt meter. I would think since you went smaller on the prop your heat is bearing heat due to over speed. I see that on my quad motors if I go too small. I have spun the props so fast they go super sonic and loose thrust but still suck massive amperage. You can hear when they transition as they go to a super high pitch scream but the Doppler effect changes drastically.

the big fixed wing guys could tell you more and give a better recommendation for what combo to use and be safe but they will say same about the watt meter.

 

[The Hangar]

The motor you are using is way bigger then the stock motor. These are designed with the power pack C in mind.
https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-power-pack-c-radial-edition-flt-3061/p983487

That is only a 2218 with a 10x4 on 3s. I think someone has used that set up on 4s with a 9x6 reliably and got the power needed to do full on 3d. I built mine on the original power pack C and mine seemed to do Ok power wise but Im not a fixed wing pilot yet. Still need to break that first full pack barrier. Next time I take it out I will go 4s on the same set up. I just need to acquire the right props first.

The only way to really tell about power is a watt meter. I would think since you went smaller on the prop your heat is bearing heat due to over speed. I see that on my quad motors if I go too small. I have spun the props so fast they go super sonic and loose thrust but still suck massive amperage. You can hear when they transition as they go to a super high pitch scream but the Doppler effect changes drastically.

the big fixed wing guys could tell you more and give a better recommendation for what combo to use and be safe but they will say same about the watt meter.

For hardcore 3D flying the C pack is way too small for the edge. The rimfire .15 1200kv is the sweet spot IMHO. I personally am running a 12x3.8 on a 22003s. The power is amazing. @Human try using an 11x3.8 or 12x3.8 prop on 3S maybe. My motor gets a little warmer than I’d like with the 12 inch so I bought an 11 inch to try on it. As far as knife edge goes, it just takes a lot of practice. I haven’t done much with my edge lately but if I remember right it does great knife edges.

 

[Human]

Well I think I'm done.

I put an 11x7E prop on, flew for about 2mins at half throttle, till I saw a big puff white smoke and the motor stopped turning. I don't understand if I am using the prop the motor say to use why it would burn up.

 

[whackflyer]

Well I think I'm done.

I put an 11x7E prop on, flew for about 2mins at half throttle, till I saw a big puff white smoke and the motor stopped turning. I don't understand if I am using the prop the motor say to use why it would burn up.

Hmm not cool. Could be the the ESC? Or maybe the Rimfire isn't as good as everyone claims it is 😂

 

[SOB Racing]

back when I was gearing up to learn to fly mine I did a lot of research to see how to fix various bad tendencies of air planes. specifically 3d. I had trouble getting my FT 3d to not tip stall all the time before I found out I am just to chicken on the throttle. Anyways I came across this check list to set up / trouble shoot a 3d plane that may be of help.

Test for

Procedure

Results

Adjustments
Control Neutrals test response to each control Adjust trims for straight & level flight adjust clevises to center xmter trims
Control Throws
Apply full deflection of each control
Check for response; Aileron hi rate 3 rolls in 3 secs. Elevator, square loop corners Rudder, 35 to 40 Deg.
Change control horns, ATV, and Duel Rates as required
Center of Gravity Method 1
Method 2
1. Roll into a vertically banked turn
2. Roll into inverted flight
1. A. Nose Drops 1. B. Tail Drops
2. A. lot of down required to hold level flight
2. B. up elevator needed to hold level flight
A. Add tail weight
B. Add Nose weight
(see Note A at bottom)
Up/ Down Thrust, test 1
Fly model straight & level, then cut throttle Note Either change B or C requires retest of Decalage and Verticals
A. Model continues level flight with a gradual drop
B.Model abruptly dives
C. Model abruptly climbs
A. No Change
B. Increase down thrust
C. Reduce down thrust
Up/Down Thrust, test 2
Fly model straight & level, then pull up Note Either change B or C requires retest of Decalage and Verticals
A.Model continues straight up
B.Model pulls to canopy
C.Model pulls to belly
A. No Adjustment
B. Increase down thrust
C. Reduce down thrust
Decalage, Angle of Incidence
Power off vertical dive from high altitude (neutralize elevator) (see Note B at bottom)
A. Model continues straight down
B. Model pulls to canopy
A. No change needed
B. Increase wing or stab incidence
Page 1
Trimming Chart
Incidence
(see Note B at bottom)
C. Model pulls to belly C. Reduce wing or stab incidence
Knife Edge Pitch
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not change pitch
B. Model pitches to canopy
C. Model pitches to belly
A. No adjustment needed
B. Either move CG aft; or increase wing incidence; or mix down elevator with rudder
C. Reverse of B;
Tip Weight - Test1
Fly straight; level, roll inverted, release aileron stick
A. Model does not drop a wing
B. Left wing drops
C. Right wing drops
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to right tip
C. Add weight to left tip
Tip Weight - Test 2
Fly model towards you / away from you, pull tight inside loop, repeat with outside loop
A. Model comes out with wings level
B.Model comes out with right wing low
C. Model comes out with left wing low
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to left tip
C. Add weight to right tip
Side Thrust Fly model away from you and pull up to vertical
A. Model continues straight up
B. Model veers left
C. Model veers right
A. No Adjustment
B. Increase Right thrust
C. Reduce Right thrust
Aileron Differential
Fly model toward you, pull into a vertical climb before it reaches you. Neutralize controls then half roll .
A. No Heading Changes
B. Heading change opposite to roll command
C. Heading change in direction of roll command
A. Differential settings OK
B. Increase differential
C. Decrease differential
Dihedral
Fly model on normal pass, roll to knife edge, left and right, use rudder to hold model level
A. Model does not roll
B. Model rolls indirection of rudder
C. Model rolls opposite to rudder
A. Dihedral OK
B. Reduce dihedral
C. Increase dihedral
Page 2
Trimming Chart

Note A:These two methods for determining the C.G. of a model will give approximate results only. Start out with the C.G. where the Designer suggested, or somewhere between 25% to 35% of the Mean Aerodynamic Cord. The optimum C.G. for your model will require further testing while performing maneuvers. The results will only be an approximation at best.
Note B:This portion of the trimming chart may be unclear for the following reason; In order to maintain level upright flight, the wing of a plane with a symmetrical airfoil wing needs to have a positive Angle of Attack (AOA, usually less than 1 degree). This positive angle provides the lift required to cause the plane to fly level. If the plane is balanced slightly to the nose heavy side (required for pitch stability), it will require a slight up elevator trim to hold level flight. A plane with a zero/ zero wing to elevator angle will also need a slight amount of up elevator trim to hold level flight. Therefore, a plane trimmed in this manner will have a tendency to pull to the canopy on a straight, thumbs off, down line because the elevator is controlling the AOA of the wing.
This positive AOA may also be achieved by a positive incidence change, which requires an offsetting down elevator for level flight. Thus, a power-off down line should fall straight down, with neutral controls. There are significant interactions between wing incidence changes and CG, therefore it is most important that the C.G. of the airplane be established first.
In the final analysis, flight trimming an airplane is a personal preference issue after you have taken care of the basic essentials

Where did you get this list....the formating is messing with my head. Looks like it should be in a table format.

 

[The Hangar]

Well I think I'm done.

I put an 11x7E prop on, flew for about 2mins at half throttle, till I saw a big puff white smoke and the motor stopped turning. I don't understand if I am using the prop the motor say to use why it would burn up.

Hmm, that’s really too bad! It might be under warranty though, so you might be able to get a free replacement - it should not have done that. Was it 3s or 4s you were running? I’ve run a 3s and a 12x6 without any overheating...