That's not a bad idea...Just want to throw out this idea. Make to planes of the same design. One plane from pizza box material and the second from Adam's Ready Board. Compare the two in flight. You are still with in the rules.
EZ Power Pack Pizza Box
- Thread starter BadAir
- Start date
L Edge
Master member
I agree the cardboard is difficult. Here is a lightest sample of the of the best cardboard I could find. Just did a sample to see how it would hold up under flight.
Doing the glide stuff is okay. To actually see it fly, you need to make one and do show and tell. I explored cardboard vrs Adams board and the foam makes better construction(cardboard when hitting the deck bends so easy) and the amount of glue needed with cardboard adds up the weight quickly.
The only cardboard I had hope for was the box that the FT Stem transmitter was sent in. It is really stiff, but not large enough.
Foamforce
Elite member
Ok, it flew! The biggest issue was seeing it. I tried to fly in front of my house at 8pm with only the street lights. Needless to say, I hit every tree in my yard at least once. 😂
So it flies, not great, but it flies. Longest flight was about 100 feet before I hit something.
The weight is 75g, which is porky, but that’s because I had to add a bunch of nose weight to balance it. Also, I did a totally weird reverse Delta wing, just because.
It’s standard corrugated cardboard, skeletonized, with packing tape. Without the added weight, it’s 58g.
So it flies, not great, but it flies. Longest flight was about 100 feet before I hit something.
The weight is 75g, which is porky, but that’s because I had to add a bunch of nose weight to balance it. Also, I did a totally weird reverse Delta wing, just because.
It’s standard corrugated cardboard, skeletonized, with packing tape. Without the added weight, it’s 58g.
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That's awesome!
This is a strange coincidence, but I printed out a Bird of Prey today to see if could get it to fly backwards.
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Mr Man
Mr SPEED!
Interesting.
L Edge
Master member
This is a sample of the strongest/lightest cardboard I could find where I used glue. Notice the small corrugated section and my result was when you went larger, it needs to be re-enforced to prevent bending and destruction.
So weight/strength becomes a major problem. The EZ pack can handle on max weight of about 60 grams but it depends on the shape of the plane. Of the 6 different planes that I fly, my lightest is 39.6 grams and the heaviest is over 70 grams. All are made out of Adams board and if I were to make them out of cardboard maybe 1 or 2 would make it.
Your main goal should have your students be successful and come out of your project to be able to fly and have a handle on the design of planes. Adams board would give you a much higher success rate and would make administration proud to pick your grant.
You also can make a catch devise so students will reduce damage/not destroy the model completely so:
a) the student can see if his model will fly
b) gets to trim the model and set the turn rate (low or high)
b) learns to fly his plane
I was able to get over 40 feet of flying in the cellar.
If you do purchase the FT EZ Pack, please order extra props(A and B) for students.
Piotrsko
Master member
Back in the day there was a thermal cardboard box glider kit called "The box it came in" . had one or three. Yup it was heavy, but NOT heavier than the radio equipment of the time. It did thermal, just not high start without folding wings. Could towline with a good run by a slow runner.
So yuppa cardboard is heavy, relatively. Just like Spruce ain't as strong as aluminum, but that didn't stop Hughes from building the biggest plane of his time out of wood. Arrow shafts are cheap at Wally world, and from my experiences totally recyclable. Super Slowstick on a 36 wingspan ought to do what the OP wants including being resilient enough to train
The key is to make it stable enough to correct turns and stalls so inputs are not normally required for most flights.. Still going to crash spectacularly but hopefully not bend too much
So yuppa cardboard is heavy, relatively. Just like Spruce ain't as strong as aluminum, but that didn't stop Hughes from building the biggest plane of his time out of wood. Arrow shafts are cheap at Wally world, and from my experiences totally recyclable. Super Slowstick on a 36 wingspan ought to do what the OP wants including being resilient enough to train
The key is to make it stable enough to correct turns and stalls so inputs are not normally required for most flights.. Still going to crash spectacularly but hopefully not bend too much
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Foamforce
Elite member
The key is to skeletonize it. The cardboard is strong, so you don’t need so much of it. Mine could be skeletonized much more. Then you can still meet the spirit of the grant, by using an actual pizza box. My very first wacky attempt flew, and that can be vastly improved on by just using a conventional configuration.
L Edge
Master member
One of the goals is they want the students to do is to come up with their own designs. Trials of flying will include nose in, cart-wheels, tail crashes, etc, where it needs re-enforcements which add weight.
So what shape plane would you use to produce some different designs. Heck, while testing, used a warm iron to straighten out wrinkles, etc., using Adams board.
Also found out when designing, a good stable EZ plane needs about 120 square inches to fly nicely and can take a beating.
So what shape plane would you use to produce some different designs. Heck, while testing, used a warm iron to straighten out wrinkles, etc., using Adams board.
Also found out when designing, a good stable EZ plane needs about 120 square inches to fly nicely and can take a beating.
That's a great idea.Just another idea. You can use laminating film instead of clear packing tape. I would think the school has laminating film some where. Use a small iron for your heat source. Please keep us updated.
I don't know about none, but I'm hoping minimal. You need some vertical element to mount the board.
Piotrsko
Master member
Back a couple years ago, the flitetest people were building square plank flat sheet flying wings with just upwards biased flaperons. Differential motor thrust for rudder. They flew like a sheet of plywood in a tornado, but they did fly controlled.
Iirc, pizza box is sometimes rather thin, looking at you Dominoes. I have collapsed the box just holding it.. need to contemplate stressed skin design.
Like the vacuum formed laminating film idea. Think the biggest bet is incremental builds where you start with a large chuck glider and add complexity if it survives ending up with multi surface controls
Iirc, pizza box is sometimes rather thin, looking at you Dominoes. I have collapsed the box just holding it.. need to contemplate stressed skin design.
Like the vacuum formed laminating film idea. Think the biggest bet is incremental builds where you start with a large chuck glider and add complexity if it survives ending up with multi surface controls
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L Edge
Master member
Any object that flies need to control roll, pitch, and yaw. I tried a flat plate UFO (ugly flying object) and had success only when using a FC (first tried manual differential thrust ) along with my control of elevons. Trying to land, I needed time to shut off props so it didn't get destroyed. Was successful. Give it a shot.
I have designed 6 different models(delta, bobcat, bipe, SR-71 and 2 no rudders, a flying wing and a B-2 Spirit) all out of Adams using the EZ Power Pac. Cardboard if used, would eliminate 4 due to weight and wings folding.
I am very impressed with FT simplicity airplanes to learn how to fly. If you look at my sites on EZ's designs, I back Josh's way any day.
Here is my SR-71
By the way @BadAir, feel free to use my catch system to prevent testing accidents when finding 1/2 throttle location for level flight and determining low or high position for turns.
KISS is the way to go. Take cheap tarplin (10 x 8) and hang from ceiling, side view is a backwards J and find bottom to make that shape.
Notice the line that goes up. End part of J shape. So the plane nose hits tarp, fuse/nose slides down into J shape, stops and since off floor, stops and no damage. I used bungy chords for adjustments.
So start 5 ft back, 1/2 throttle and chuck. Make adjustment to battery if nose or tail heavy, try again.
Next go to 10 ft, put throttle 1/2 and chuck level. If minor movement, use minor throttle management or reset battery.
Next go to say 10 ft, do same. Then go 15, 20, 30, 42ft away is all I can get in my cellar.
Now check turns for either low or high
Use in a high school hallway.
Houndpup Rc
Master member
I kinda want to try designing one of those!
