F-100 Super Sabre 1/8th Build (70")

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
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I will continue with this as is simply as i want to see how the craft paper does and holds up. Its stupid cheap if i like how it turns out. That idea of using dye though i will definitely implement immediately. White glue on white foam made it very hard to see where i had added glue.
 

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
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Last night i got out a sharpie, straight edge, and a carpenters square (triangle!!) and started mapping out the location of parts and wires on the main wing. Although this is going to be a great big plane in the sky and will be easier for my friends to chase in fpv i still wanted some lighting to help out. I plan on putting a couple red and green leds on the wingtips so i ran paths out to them and i cut out the holes and path for the servos. I like to have the servo wire coiled up right next to the servo and use extensions on the wing in case you have to replace. I tried using a rotary tool and depth attachment instead of my usual modded soldering iron. Well, it went great. Im sold. never going back. Its nosier with a vacuum going, but much less setup, no fumes, no mess, way faster than melting as well. I have used shaped wire in the past as well to cutout boxes, but i just like this better. Makes an amazing sharp looking cut. I guess with EPP this process pulls chunks out and you need to cut the perimeter first with a razor but this insulation foam just makes a perfect cut right away.

For servos i am using some 51g hobbyking servos. They are analog metal gear but have crazy 9-12kg torque and are $7. I have 16+ of these i have used in various projects with no failures yet.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk15288a-analog-servo-bb-mg-9kg-0-20sec-51g.html
 

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
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Servo leads, servo holes, and wingtip lighting wires installed.
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Using my bendy straight edge i marked and cut out the fuselage under the wing. This piece will be permanently glued to the bottom of the wing.
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This piece of 1/8 basswood fits perfectly with 1" of overhang on each end for nylon screws in each corner.
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I thought about the size and shape of the anchors for a while. In the end i decided on these small pieces as they will only have significant force on them in strong negative g (nose down) movements. The hole for the wing is a rectangle and the center section fits in perfectly so front to back it will be pushing on the fuselage and the same with yaw movements it will be locked in place. Positive G climbing will also push the wing up into the fuselage. I am not a crazy fpv pilot i like smooth flight for video so i think this will be enough. 4 nylon nuts epoxied into the 4 corners.

Also i cut out a half inch box for the aileron and lighting wires to hide while attached. The large hole is right at CG and will allow me to add more battery in the future for longer flights without adjust cg much.
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bstanley72

Member
Maybe you mentioned it before, but are you going to be able to sand the fuse with all of the Gorilla glue? I'm not sure about the brown stuff, but I've tried sanding the white version before and had no luck. I'm trying some Titebond PU glue which they claim is "highly sandable" but not having the best of luck with it either.

I would love to find and expanding/foaming glue that will sand like wood glue!
 

thenated0g

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Maybe you mentioned it before, but are you going to be able to sand the fuse with all of the Gorilla glue? I'm not sure about the brown stuff, but I've tried sanding the white version before and had no luck. I'm trying some Titebond PU glue which they claim is "highly sandable" but not having the best of luck with it either.

I would love to find and expanding/foaming glue that will sand like wood glue!


Yes it sands. Its hard when completely cured so its sands alright. Still have to be careful as the foam sands very very easily. I have a long sanding block, kind of like a surfboard. This way it will be over a big chunk of the plane at the same time and not dig into any one place.

I have taken my long blade and cut all the high areas already.
 

thenated0g

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Actually the one place the gorilla glue has been giving me trouble is the rotary tool. It does not like the glue sections. has a real hard time going thru it. Almost cut some big chunks on accident as it went sideways when i hit that layer.
 

thenated0g

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knofusion8 - youtube

Ok this maybe a stupid question, but where do you get plans from that provide sections at the same interval as the thickness of your foam for the fuse? I know most plans have formers is it just a case of glueing up a number of pieces of foam to get the right depth between former a and b or do you re draw the plans?

When i wanted to start building this i went back and watched the videos of David Windestal's Viggen and another video he has online. And it seemed apparent that you had to break the shape up into chunks and hot cut between them and so i started looking for any online plans that i could find. Before i found any i went to one of the plans databases for balsa planes. I like to look thru these plans for ideas of what to build next. As i was looking thru the plans i came to realize that the way balsa planes are built is very similar to hot wire cutting. Hot wire cutting follows the edges of two shapes. Balsa building also follows the edges of two shapes. But its wood sticks connecting the two shapes and than its covered with iron on material, but still the end shape is the connection between those two things.

Taking already made plans and modifying would save me a ton of time in design and testing. It is already a working model. The end shape that the air is going to travel around is what matters, not the material that is inside to create it. The balsa designer has already done things like testing cg and modifying the plans from scale to make sure it flies even though it is much smaller than the full scale plane.

I like to use Inkscape as i have been using it for years and its free, but any vector based program that gives you 1:1 printing is going to work. Meaning if i set something to 1 inch in the program and than print it out its going to measure 1" on a real ruler.

By building everything in software in its real world size you can plan ahead. I knew which motor and prop i was going to be using and so i took those deminsions and made a virtual box that size. Than i imported the pdf balsa plans into inkscape and scaled them up to size that made sense for a motor and 16" prop. Than i would draw a line across an area and see what that was in inches and right it down. I measured the spaces in between the "formers" and documented this on the plans. I measured how far from the "ground" they were in the air and marked this down. Since the plane was the actuall real size in software (70") i could make real world measurements. In a lot of cases i would round up or down the measurements to 1/4" or 1/8" increments as you cant really make super fine cuts anyways, at least i cant.

So just like balsa building i had two former's separated by a set amount of space. I simply filled that space with foam instead of connecting them with wood sticks.
***edit i added the picture of the formers in the same order as the plans. You can see the shape pass thru all the formers.
Capture.JPG
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Here are the original plans:
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5940
 
Last edited:

Geeto67

Posting Elsewhere
Actually the one place the gorilla glue has been giving me trouble is the rotary tool. It does not like the glue sections. has a real hard time going thru it. Almost cut some big chunks on accident as it went sideways when i hit that layer.

wood workers have this same problem when routing two soft wood pieces joined by glue or epoxy. I know some wood workers will pin and clamp the pieces together rather than glue them to work the routing and then once they are done they glue it all together. Might not be a bad technique going forward for working on smaller sections.
 

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
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Knowing that its going to happen i can work with it, but it did surprise me the first couple times. Its not just the tool skips but the entire 70" fuselage screeches lol.
 

flitetest

Administrator
Admin
Nate Dog my dude... you are CRUSHING this build my man! How are things coming along? How many hours you think you got logged and do you see the light at the end of the tunnel yet or still quite a bit of ways to go? haha Enjoyed looking through this thread and KEEP UP the great work my dude! Hope to see you sooner rather than later my friend!

Blessings,
Stefan
 

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
Mentor
Nate Dog my dude... you are CRUSHING this build my man! How are things coming along? How many hours you think you got logged and do you see the light at the end of the tunnel yet or still quite a bit of ways to go? haha Enjoyed looking through this thread and KEEP UP the great work my dude! Hope to see you sooner rather than later my friend!

Blessings,
Stefan

Are you supposed to be working on flitefest south right now !? :)

Not really sure on hours. If you could tell me when the next flitefest west is i could tell you when it will be done lol
Thanks for the encouragement. Who knows if it will survive maiden but i am enjoying the time spent on the project. Have safe travels to florida.
 

flitetest

Administrator
Admin
Ha ALWAYS Workin on FF stuff ALL DAY ERR DAY!;)

Thanks for the kind traveling mercies and keep on keepin on my friend... not sure WHEN and WHERE FFwest stuff is happening... but WHEN I KNOW... youll know! ha

Stefan
 

thenated0g

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I am not really sure if i will ever need a second battery. The max amp draw on my setup should be 65amps on 6s and that is giving 5,100g of thrust. Thats over 11 pounds. But figuring out the low cruise speed...i will have to wait and see. I am putting in a 5200mah 6s pack, even at 30amps average draw, which seems really high, that would be like 10 minutes of flying. But if i do find i want more battery in the future it will be a lot less work now to put a spot in.
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A few weeks back i needed a break from the assembly so i hot cut this little wing to test my covering process. I had heard that the the shrinking process of the glue and paper sticks to the shape much like fiberglassing something. Meaning it will not hide defects in the surface. I decided to sand and fill the bottom of the wing and NOT sand the top. As you can see in the pics below, the unfinished surface is very obvious after drying.
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It is kind of hard to see in these pictures of the bottom as i have some dried glue flakes on it, but the bottom is just perfectly smooth.
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And so i decided that i really liked the finished surface with light weight Spackle better. It really doesn't add any noticeable weight to the finished product but is noticeably better looking.
The idea is to make a mechanical bond by pushing it into the foam and than get as much of the Spackle off as you can. Than i went back and put extra amounts in areas that were low. I will come back and sand these areas.
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F106DeltaDart

Elite member
Looking good man! Can't wait to see it fly. I can't help but think about how cool it would be to do one with a ducted fan and retracts, such a cool looking jet!
 

thenated0g

Drinker of coffee, Maker of things
Mentor
Just a few comments on the above video. The process was pretty easy and straight forward. I mixed Elmer white glue with about 40% water. Added a few drops of black paint so i could see the glue mixture on the white foam.

I painted the glue on the paper first to allow it to soak in and become easier to bend. Than paint the wing surface and a put the paper down. At first it does not look very well. It is bubbly, and not flat. Slowing using my hands and tools i worked the excess glue out and got it in position. It is easy to move and doesn't dry quickly so you have time to adjust. The glue also doesn't come thru the paper so it is not sticky. I had a wet rag nearby to wipe off any glue and this worked very well. Even wiping down the plane with it worked well.

I covered the wing without the bottom part of the fuselage so that i could weigh it down and keep it straight while drying. After only 3 hours of drying the paper had tightened up enough to make it look really good. Very very nice surface. Very flat. It does cover up some imperfections but not all. It seems to cover low spots very well but high spots stand out. This makes since as it is pulling tight as it dries. After drying for a couple days it settled around 920g. Not sure on starting weight as i lost my notes. I will do better on the fuselage.

The dried craft paper is very hard and rigid. In the holes for the servos it was almost cracking off, but not quite. I had to use a razor blade to cut it clear.
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After drying for a few days i put the wing in the fuselage and put the bottom piece on for fitting. I had to so some sanding to get it all flush again. I sanded extra off in fact as the paper going over it will raise it slightly. This is also why i am getting the wing completely finished before starting on the fuselage. Everything else will be based off the wing being done and in place correctly. After it is completed i will mount it in the fuselage and make sure that it is level in all directions, lock it down, and start mounting the tail section.

In the pic below i have added Spackle to the bottom piece. Now it just needs to dry, be sanded, and than paper covering to connect it to the wing. I placed the 51g servos in place to make sure everything was still flush. Still debating if im going to cover them or simply glue in place. Considered gluing in place and paper covering to make it seamless.
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I have had a few comments on facebook and other places about why i am using this and not something else like fiber-glassing. I feel like this process is really sticking true to the flitetest way of using common materials. Paper, when pulled in the horizontal plane, has a ton of strength. Try and pull just a regular piece of office paper apart with your hands. And this is craft paper, like grocery bags. When glued down to a rigid surface it is crazy strong. It is also really cheap. Here is the costs so far:

8'x4'x2" insulation board from home depot: $20
Half a bottle of Gorilla glue: $6 ?
Roll of craft paper: $8
Basswood sheet: $2
Hot glue in a few spots : $2 ?
Gallon of elmers glue: $12 (half for this build maybe)
Light Weight spackle: $20 (using not even a quarter of it for this plane)

And for a huge plane. I think the cheapness of this building style outweighs the benefits of "better" process's. Assuming it flies of course :)