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***FAA Model Aircraft Registration Requirement Struck Down!!!!***

nhk750

Aviation Enthusiast
#3
Refund?

Does this mean I get my $5 back? Or, since we have now ticked off the bureaucrats, does this mean they will drop the hammer on us and the next batch of bull will be really devastating?
 
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rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
#4
I think it means we're safe until congress lets a bill go flying by with a ton of special interest pork attached that changes H.R.658 - FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 or in the 2017 budget appropriations.

So don't let up the communications to your representatives. Don't let up on the education of all the great, positive, and safe things this hobby brings to communities and our young people.

And go fly something really big this weekend without an FAA number plate on it :cool:
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#6
It can be good to play by the rules. I had my $5 back for registering early anyway.

As for where this will go...

We could go to one extreme as the typical conspiricy theorist and suspect all government activity and any silience or denial of any matter is automatic proof of nefarious activity.

We could be ultra-naive and never verify anything.

Obviously, to those of us in neither camp, either of those are problematic. The best thing to do is stay informed and stay active in... yes... political issues. When we don't we will find ourselves steamrolled by the extremists who do. We must discuss the issues so we can have educated opinions and be able to articulate them in a way that helps others better understand the issues.

For now, on this one, we get to fly on.

On that note, what are your thoughts on AMA membership? Is the juice worth the squeeze?
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#7
In all honesty, I trust this as much as I trust legalized MJ.

They want people to feel comfortable...

I trust government as far as I can throw a cheesecake underwater. :)
 

Bricks

Well-known member
#8
AMA would do absolutely nothing for me since I carry a $1,000,000 blanket liability policy. If you have homeowners or other insurance the only time AMA kicks in is if all your other insurance is exhausted.
 
#10
This is only a 1/2 victory

Tear up your FAA registration cards, folks! The requirement has been struck down in appeals court!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngo...tration-rule-for-model-aircraft/#7b7772894238
IANAL, but I read the opinion. Quote:

The FAA’s Registration Rule violates Section 336 of the
FAA Modernization and Reform Act. We grant Taylor’s
petition for review of the Registration Rule, and we vacate the
Registration Rule to the extent it applies to model aircraft.
Because Taylor’s petition for review of Advisory Circular 91-
57A is untimely, that petition is denied.​

So we no longer need to REGISTER and they may no longer fine us for not doing so. But the Advisory Circular 91-57A was not struck down. That circular is where the 5-mile radius rule comes from as well as the "no flying in DC" rule. Personally it is the 5-mile radius rule that is cramping my style more than anything else.

In the city I live in there is literally not a single spot that isn't within 5 miles of some sort of "airport" (as defined within the FAA FlyAware app). Some of these "airports" are hospitals that have a helipad on their roof for life-flight operations, another is a single-runway municipal field for General Aviation. It has all been hashed before, but I totally get not flying within some distance of the hospitals (a mile maybe?) or in the direct approach/departure paths of the small airports. But the rules as written are basically impossible to comply with, so everyone just ignores them.

Anyway, $.02.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#12
I'd be wary as this kind of opens the door to each town or county making their own rules about drones since there is no federal oversight. To be honest I am not sure why we are not in lines already at the DMV for the money grab. I am still waiting for the licence and insurance hammer to fall like any other thing in life they think they can squeeze money from when more then five people do it.
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#13
That's one way to look at it but if the federal lawmakers had their attempt at legislating this shot down (down but likely not out) anyone else attempting to legislate the hobby will need to do it better, not just try at a lower level, or risk the same result.
 
#14
I'd be wary as this kind of opens the door to each town or county making their own rules about drones since there is no federal oversight. To be honest I am not sure why we are not in lines already at the DMV for the money grab. I am still waiting for the licence and insurance hammer to fall like any other thing in life they think they can squeeze money from when more then five people do it.
This doesn't give control of the airspace back to the states and local governments.
The airspace is still federally controlled.

I do think cities and states should be able to make rules that pertain to drones as it relates to general public safety.

For the safety of the football fans attending a game, you shouldn't be allowed to bring your drone to a Big 10 Football Game to fly inside the stadium, or fly over crowded sidewalks and the parking lots of the surrounding area.
The same holds true for high school Friday night football games.
For Manhattan apartments having terraces over busy sidewalks and streets, for the safety of drivers and pedestrians below, I have no problem prohibiting drone flight from off the terraces.

Having said that...every case is unique.
If you wanted to get some long shots of a "rural" high school Friday Night under the lights, I'd have no problem if someone flew a DJI drone out over the adjacent cornfield at a safe distance of 200+ yards beyond all human activity to film the stadium and lights.

"A safe distance" means there are no cars, houses, domestic animals, or people within "the a buffer zone of safety".
It's the density, proximity, and probability of any safety concern that must be weighed in determining "the buffer zone of safety".

In the end...Local, State, and Federal threats to public safety should always trump FAA airspace jurisdiction.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#15
Yeah but you know government does not work that way. They blanket everything but specify nothing so they can manipulate the laws to suit their needs. They will regulate it down to where you can only fly in one or two areas and to do so you will have to have a licence, pay insurance THEN pay at the gate to be able to use the designated areas.

I take serious offense when I get lumped in with all the DJI idiots crashing those pieces of crap into places they shouldn't be in the first place. I make sure where I fly is reasonably isolated and I have a good view of the surrounding area to see people come or go as I fly. I will not fly if there are little kids around as they are too unpredictable.

I fly in the play area where I live but I also have worked with the parents about guidelines and sharing the area. If those guidelines are not followed I simply pack up and go some where else. If the kids want to use the play set and I am out they know all they have to do is let me know they want to use it and I pack up.

I do not NEED nor want regulation as I am smart enough to figure things out on my own. I certainly do not want the government causing me problems because the stupid people are stupid. They cant change that and regulating non stupid people is not going to change anything either other then putting more money in someones pocket.

They need to stop making rules for stupid people and let them do their thing. It will thin the herd out faster in the end. If they want to regulate and designate. Give the stupid people a place to do their thing away from the not stupid people. THEN we can video it and watch it on TV to fund the up keep of the designated area and removal of used up stupid people. The world would be such a better place in a short time.
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
#16
Man... I don't know if this will change anything. I was out just recently walking with a RCExplorer tricopter to the ball parks near my home where I do all my maidens and test flights. Never when there's a lot of people around. This time, it was just me and a park ranger who was loading his trailer with his horse. When I passed him, I greeted him with a smile and a hello. He said hello, but then added "You know, you're not supposed to fly that here." This confused me because I know I've flown these things in open view with other park rangers watching and have talked to them about my RC flying. He added that it's because we're within 5 miles of Logan airport. He added, very nicely, if I walked to the park in the next town over (I'm in Boston, on the border with a town called Brookline where there's a nice large park pretty close, but still a good 15-20 minute walk away), I can fly because it's outside the ring.

Now, I've checked... Heck, even my apps (EZGUI) that warns about proximity to airports tell me that it's ok to fly at this park. I didn't want to argue and figured he wouldn't say that unless his superiors briefed them on it. The fact that he just wanted me to fly at a park that was nearby but further from the airport (by something like .5 to .75 miles) told me it's some some silly regulation people have decided to impose for the purpose of CYA.

Anyway, as PsyBorg fears, I think that even if the FAA can't impose registration requirements, it's really kind of open season for local municipalities to make rules that are roughly based on the FAA rules. I could have gone on about how, I just needed to call the Logan tower to fly my tricopter for the 10 minutes I planned in order to get a tail tune completed. Instead, I walked the 15 minutes (30 round trip) for my 10 minute flight.

BTW, I just used Google Maps to measure the distance from the tower to my closest park... 6.1 miles. Meh... What it could be, and this may be a distinction even he wasn't aware, is that this is a regulation imposed not because of Logan (even though he mentioned it) but because of all the hospitals near me, especially those with helipads on their rooftops. We do get a fair amount of helicopter flights in this area. The state police also seem to use the park area nearby for either helicopter patrols or training because their EC135/145s are quite distinctive and a constant presence.
 
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#17
I think if the previous FAA registration requirement was a serous issue for you, you are VERY lucky. SERIOUSLY. Drop the tin foil. it is messing with your brain. And I truly don't care if this insults you. Get a life. $5? "Oh, that's how it starts." No, no it doesn't. Learn why $5. Learn something. Anything. Seriously. Or go "behind the woodshed" or wherever the challenged go to chat.

Mike
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#18
To the community,

Let's make sure we keep this dignified and not choose our words carelessly. We are a community that surely at times will disagree. When (not if) that happens, we should take much care about allowing our emotions to get the better of us and end up saying something that is undignified.

@Bill, I hear you shipmate but the problem is the knuckleheads seem to not always know who they are. Perhaps I'm one. I have seen indicators. I'm curious how we employ what you suggest. Or maybe it was just a rant, I dunno.

@Mak, I don't know how distance from an airport is measured. The tower might seem like a nice central point but some airports are significantly larger than others. I'm guessing it would make more sense to put the distance to the nearest side of an airfield. When discussing the law with law enforcement agents I would recommend displaying a posture of wanting to comply first, and desiring to understand second so as not to look like we're challenging authority but rather interested in knowing how we can know the truth (where it's written down). If we leave people a graceful way out of their position, many will admit maybe there's more to it than they know.

@All, If we all had common sense and were decent people, we would not need anywhere near the number of laws we have. Some of us need it spelled out. Some need to know they will be held accountable for poor/unsafe actions. How do we keep people safe when there are so many unsafe and sometimes uncaring people out there? Criticizing is easy. Offering workable solutions is another thing altogether.
 
#19
BTW, I just used Google Maps to measure the distance from the tower to my closest park... 6.1 miles. Meh... What it could be, and this may be a distinction even he wasn't aware, is that this is a regulation imposed not because of Logan (even though he mentioned it) but because of all the hospitals near me, especially those with helipads on their rooftops. We do get a fair amount of helicopter flights in this area. The state police also seem to use the park area nearby for either helicopter patrols or training because their EC135/145s are quite distinctive and a constant presence.
Try out this map.
http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/
There is a huge circle over greater Boston.
It's bigger than O'hare's circle.
I love the way there is no legend on the map telling what is what.
Also no scale of miles.
Pretty worthless as a tool.
 
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PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#20
Nah Jim alls good mate.

I was replying to the post above me and realized it was a tad serious and maybe blunt. Instead of typing it all over and losing my focus I THOUGHT I was lightening it up at the end with a sort of "heres yer sign" thing. Too many people take things far too seriously specially in a text based forum where facial expressions and tone are not seen. These days people will get butt hurt and offended if you say hello so I don't worry too much about responses made in haste or anger. If people get me that's cool if they don't I have ZERO worry over it and never let what they say get to me. I learned that sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me when I was like three or four years old.

As far as identification and implementation we can take that up in pm's if you are up for a giggle.