FAA Proposals

[LitterBug]

What I believe, have been saying all along, and included as a small part of my comment is that this has almost nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with the commercialization of the < 400' airspace. I've posted up the proposals by the big delivery and communications companies several times and these rules tend to fall right in line with documents/proposals created by the corporations, some close to and over a decade ago.

Here's one by google for example
https://utm.arc.nasa.gov/docs/GoogleUASAirspaceSystemOverview5pager[1].pdf

Money talks....

 

[FoamyDM]

@jsknockoff seemed to be asking how the rules as written might just afford us Some minor allowances. seemed to be aiming possitive

Such as;

• Flying above 400 ft flying
• flying at night,
• Flying BLOS.
• Doing what you want @sub 250g. provided you don't... no, exempt, oh, don't fly in restricted flying spots as ID'd near airports and military bases.

As rockets, weather balloons, and other Uncontrolled craft are not in the proposed rules, set it and forget it Free flight models are expempt.

 

[LitterBug]

What I believe, have been saying all along, and included as a small part of my comment is that this has almost nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with the commercialization of the < 400' airspace. I've posted up the proposals by the big delivery and communications companies several times and these rules tend to fall right in line with documents/proposals created by the corporations, some close to and over a decade ago.

Here's one by google for example
https://utm.arc.nasa.gov/docs/GoogleUASAirspaceSystemOverview5pager[1].pdf

Money talks....

Interestingly Wing which is a sub of Google/Alphabet sounds to be very supportive of hobbyists and had some good talking points.
https://medium.com/wing-aviation/wing-supports-astm-standard-for-drone-remote-id-ffe88095bf1a

Our skies are open to all. Hobbyists are vital to innovation in the United States. However, the proposed rule would make it difficult for hobbyists to build and operate their aircraft. The final rule should recognize alternative ways for hobbyists to identify their drones, including via smartphone, and should avoid limiting their participation in the airspace.​

...snip...

Keeps our skies open to all. The ASTM standard supports all kinds of operators. Compliance is simple and affordable, and operators can identify themselves without additional equipment or infrastructure. Wing believes that the final rule should allow hobbyists with low-risk, basic-capability aircraft to register their flight intent via the USS network on publicly available smartphone apps. This is consistent with the ASTM standard for non-equipped participants, and similar to authorizations for airspace access under LAANC. Further, Wing believes that community based organizations should be permitted to establish and renew exempt flying sites beyond twelve months.​

​

LB

EDIT: Wing's full comment https://www.regulations.gov/content...1100-51456&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=pdf

 

[jsknockoff]

I too am a gun owner. Registered in California 30+ years ago and I now live in Arizona. I can legally carry my .38 concealed but I can't fly my R/C airplane without even more stringent regulations? That's just stupid. No matter the final FAA decision I plan to continue flying safely as I have for several decades. I'll probably fly more and more smaller aircraft so as not to intentionally draw attention to myself but I still have dozens of aircraft that weigh far in excess of FAA 250 gram guidelines and I intend to fly them without any mandated "Big Brother" tracking devices. Screw 'em.

Joe

I considered downsizing also, but flying 2 meter gliders is what really got me back into RC. It’s kind of pointless to try to meet a size requirement when I’m going to exceed the altitude ceiling on every flight anyways. I’m going to wait it out and see what happens. Honestly if the rules go on the books as written I’ll probably sell all of my larger stuff or give it away, and try to purse full scale soaring.

Another idea I had in mind when all of this started happening was to transition over into stick and tissue RC.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

I too am a gun owner. Registered in California 30+ years ago and I now live in Arizona. I can legally carry my .38 concealed but I can't fly my R/C airplane without even more stringent regulations? That's just stupid. No matter the final FAA decision I plan to continue flying safely as I have for several decades. I'll probably fly more and more smaller aircraft so as not to intentionally draw attention to myself but I still have dozens of aircraft that weigh far in excess of FAA 250 gram guidelines and I intend to fly them without any mandated "Big Brother" tracking devices. Screw 'em.

Joe

Joe you know what, that's just the stance people are gonna hafta take. People that have so many more reasons to do the hobby then just to fly, like myself, will have to continue being the safe yet legally irresponsible approach to it. It's to bad it has to go that direction, but we aren't harming anyone. And I don't want to be a passive victim of absurd abusive regulation for the sake of the bleeding hearts who have nothing better to do but outwardly complain that others are enjoying there lives when they don't know how

 

[jsknockoff]

@jsknockoff seemed to be asking how the rules as written might just afford us Some minor allowances. seemed to be aiming possitive

Such as;

• Flying above 400 ft flying
• flying at night,
• Flying BLOS.
• Doing what you want @sub 250g. provided you don't... no, exempt, oh, don't fly in restricted flying spots as ID'd near airports and military bases.

As rockets, weather balloons, and other Uncontrolled craft are not in the proposed rules, set it and forget it Free flight models are expempt.

A big part of complying with any new rules that may be established would be making them simple to follow. I would certainly be willing to abide by new rules if it made the hobby more safe in the eyes of the public in general. I think, assuming safety is the reason for restrictions, that the complaints have to be coming from people who honestly have no clue about the hobby and are just annoyed by a multi rotor hovering overhead.

 

[Hai-Lee]

Sadly it seems that you are trying to play the man and not the ball! The ball, (the object being discussed or perhaps the reasons for their legislative actions), is not totally controlling the skies but rather stamping out irresponsible and dangerous operation of RC aircraft. The legislators are just responding to the plethora of video evidence on the internet that the RC community is dangerous and potentially a training ground for would be terrorists.

If I want to exceed the height restrictions and fly into commercial aircraft or, drop bombs, and even fire a weapon from a drone I need to look no further than the internet for ideas and inspiration. Try You Tube!

It is this plethora of publicly available information that is causing the crackdown! If you have ever posted a video of crashing into something or too close to others especially in a suburban environment then you are part of the real problem. We are all being judged by such posts!

I tried to get a forum user to stop posting information on how to fly at height in the commercial flight areas and lost my mentor-ship on the forum because of it. Later the same user was banned but not for his posted behaviour but rather because he bad mouthed the FLiteTest team! I tried to halt such postings on the forum but it was not deemed as something I was responsible for. So I gave up and help only those who need it. Unfortunately the legal nature of the forum content is our joint responsibility and the new laws are just a result of our collective inaction.

Watching the results of all of the postings considered as adverse to the public image of the hobby that we are trying to espouse has been both humorous and terrifying. The new laws are just a knee jerk result of our collective actions, in-actions or tolerance of those posting that are effectively evidence of unsafe and even illegal activity! That which we do not oppose we must be seen as accepting as normal behaviour.

Even the recommendation of joining a local club which is connected to the national representative body is often discouraged by forum users as the club rules are too restrictive and yet we cry out loudly when the representative body is almost ignored by legislators! The new legislation is effectively a recognition that RC clubs are not truly representative of the RC aircraft users. Clubs can be held to account under previous laws but individual rogue pilots were not unless caught. With the ID system individual pilots can at least be identified at the scene and if no ID the law is being broken and punitive measures can be commenced.

If you fly legal and in a club the new laws will not be too much but if a rogue then the ID system will allow you to be held accountable for your actions. Stop posting illegal and dangerous material pertaining to RC flying is a first step and report illegal antics on YouTube and Facebook as being illegal or dangerous and then they can help us clean up they hobby/sport. Self regulation of the hobby has FAILED!

Have, (safe and Legal), Fun!

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Joe you know what, that's just the stance people are gonna hafta take. People that have so many more reasons to do the hobby then just to fly, like myself, will have to continue being the safe yet legally irresponsible approach to it. It's to bad it has to go that direction, but we aren't harming anyone. And I don't want to be a passive victim of absurd abusive regulation for the sake of the bleeding hearts who have nothing better to do but outwardly complain that others are enjoying there lives when they don't know how

Chris,
very well said. It is weird that at 61 now, so at 64 I may join the ranks of skateboarders and bikers as an outlaw. I'll always be safe as I can and will remain legal for just as long as I can but once it becomes illegal simply to role my own and fly, I'll be an outlaw.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Chris,
very well said. It is weird that at 61 now, so at 64 I may join the ranks of skateboarders and bikers as an outlaw. I'll always be safe as I can and will remain legal for just as long as I can but once it becomes illegal simply to role my own and fly, I'll be an outlaw.

We should get on mopeds and have leather bomber jackets with planes strapped to the rack ridin in packs, really scare the old blue hairs

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

We should get on mopeds and have leather bomber jackets with planes strapped to the rack ridin in packs, really scare the old blue hairs

For some reason, I find your proposal very appealing!

 

[BATTLEAXE]

For some reason, I find your proposal very appealing!

You might need to shave your head though

 

[LitterBug]

We should get on mopeds and have leather bomber jackets with planes strapped to the rack ridin in packs, really scare the old blue hairs

I'm going to be on my bike with a foamboard fairing and BDFs screaming away.

 

[DarkFire]

I personally find the whole proposal pretty dang inefficient and convoluted. Especially owing to the fact that it isn't based on any public studies, as referenced by others in this thread, it just seems like one of those cases where the corporations seem to have deep pockets when it comes to influencing politicians.

I certainly won't implement any changes to my own planes, since I like to fly slow and I dont have the best funding right now for the hobby. I guess I'll have to fly illegally in my normal flying field (i.e. a small field at the front of my gated neighborhood).

I'm pretty lucky when it comes to flying sites, as my normal flying field is surrounded by trees and I know most of the people in my small neighborhood. I also have the option of convincing my friend's parents to let me carve out a grass strip in their cow pasture. I'm concerned about the validity of my secondary flying field, the football field at a local public school, as it's much more open to people reporting me or getting angry at me. I use it for bigger and faster planes, like my eflite P47. I pity and particularly sympathize with the pilots that can only fly at public parks and fields.

Just my thoughts on a hot topic.
Sam