FAA Transponders?

[Merv]

...What is the consensus on the viability of fixed wing RC aviation in the remote ID world?

With the approval of multiple CBO’s, Im hopeful there will be widely available FRIA’s and there will be a reasonably priced remote ID, less than $25.
I see no reason why a remote ID could not be incorporated into a Rx.

If there is a data base of FRIA’s, it may make finding a spot to fly much easier when traveling to a new area.

 

[CappyAmeric]

I just started in RC aviation last year after careers in the USAF and engineering. I haven't had a lot of luck getting started and now I see remote ID will be required by September of 2023. Nothing I bought last year has remote ID. I am personally interested in fixed wing models so I guess I will need a remote ID module(s). Thus far, I've only found "promises" that these modules will be available. I am sorely tempted to list all my gear on ebay and write is all off as a bad experience. What is the consensus on the viability of fixed wing RC aviation in the remote ID world?

IMHO, very few people who are flying in their back yards or parks today are going to know about Remote ID, or comply with if they do. Likewise, unless it within 5 miles of an airport or a national monument, it is doubtful anyone with any assumed authority will care whether these toys are violating some rule (remember, Remote ID rules are not laws, they are administrative rules).

When you can see that Horizon Hobby and others are clearly selling planes today without Remote ID that were manufactured after September 2022 - and the fact that the FAA does not even understand their own rules regarding manufacturers' responsibilities vs users' responsibilities; you will understand that R/C aviation was really not the focus of whatever nonsense for which the Remote ID rules were intended.

It's almost as if the FAA created all these rules, and lost interest, but are still implementing them because "we're the government and we can, so there."

 

[Piotrsko]

In the fifty years I have been doing RC, EVERY so often I experienced an episode where some government agency was going to kill the hobby by enacting some sort of horrendous restrictive regulations. The hobby is still active in spite of those regulations. They just did a reg where you had a 250 gram limit. Suprise all of a sudden you can buy a 249 gram craft. Cant see it very far, but you can FPV it for a mile or so. @CappyAmeric nailed it.

 

[XSrcing]

This is the US where the govt likes to tell us what to do while we just give them the finger and continue to do as we have done.

 

[CappyAmeric]

Bruce Simpson (XJet) has uncovered the fact that the US gummint has awarded a contract to a firm that aims to identify flying drones in realtime using ground-based sensors that are networked - it appears to use Remote ID and other means. Read the news about drones in Ukraine and the drone attacks throughout Iran yesterday and you might be able to see that the technology has already outgrown the FAA's Remote ID. Remote ID cannot protect the national airspace, just like "gun control" cannot keep baddies from doing horrible things with firearms. The gummint knows this, which is why they are moving on from Remote ID to other means.

Eventually, recreational fliers may be caught in the web of big brother's overreach - but I do not think Remote ID is where that will happen - it will be much further down the road and using centralized passive sensor technology (not Remote ID), IMHO.

 

[CappyAmeric]

This is the US where the govt likes to tell us what to do while we just give them the finger and continue to do as we have done.

It seems they need to be reminded occasionally that the government does not give rights - it is constrained from infringing upon them, and exists solely to protect our rights. We've got the proof - recorded on our hearts and preserved on 247 year-old parchment.

 

[MacClarkNC]

This feels more like commercial entities getting the ear of the government for their own desires to more cheaply control the below 400 feet airspace in case technology makes drone deliveries profitable. Seems it is our own lazy fault. We are now so lazy we wait in long lines burning expensive fuel to buy artery clogging meals to stuff down our throats, you can believe UPS, Amazon and others want to drone that cheeseburger to us.. No government conspiracy, just economics. Capitalism doing what capitalism wants to do, nothing like some campaign finance to have em feeding at the trough

 

[CappyAmeric]

This feels more like commercial entities getting the ear of the government for their own desires to more cheaply control the below 400 feet airspace in case technology makes drone deliveries profitable. Seems it is our own lazy fault. We are now so lazy we wait in long lines burning expensive fuel to buy artery clogging meals to stuff down our throats, you can believe UPS, Amazon and others want to drone that cheeseburger to us.. No government conspiracy, just economics. Capitalism doing what capitalism wants to do, nothing like some campaign finance to have em feeding at the trough

That is how it all started 5 years ago - but all the entities have figured out that the dependability and hence the liability are still at least a decade out. The first Amazon drone dropping from the sky on a suburban neighborhood will end it all and they know that.

I see drone delivery like I do electric air taxis. Possible, of course. Practical, efficient, and safe - nope.

 

[CrashRecovery]

That is how it all started 5 years ago - but all the entities have figured out that the dependability and hence the liability are still at least a decade out. The first Amazon drone dropping from the sky on a suburban neighborhood will end it all and they know that.

I see drone delivery like I do electric air taxis. Possible, of course. Practical, efficient, and safe - nope.

Well, it's happening with Wal-Mart. They are already delivering by multirotor.

 

[MacClarkNC]

Holly springs NC , drones, will deliver your jersey Mike's sandwich, also Panera bread, but you have to be close by. And it is too late tonight for you to order.
https://www.wral.com/food-falling-from-the-sky-holly-springs-expands-drone-food-delivery/20244531/

Not a sleepy little town anymore, it like all of wake county is booming

 

[CappyAmeric]

https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-starts-prime-air-drone-053730523.html

"In April, Insider reported that it costs Amazon at least $484 per delivery made via its Prime Air trial. But the retail giant hoped the cost of each drone delivery would come down to $63 per package in 2025 – the year when it aims to deliver 1 million packages by drone."

Cost of the equipment is very high, but the liability insurance is likely driving costs even higher. Like I said, when the first Amazon drone drops on a neighborhood, the insurance costs will get higher, and the public will wonder why they should pay $63 for delivery in a few hours, when they can get 6 hour delivery by a person for free. In ten years, maybe.

It took commercial aviation many decades to make domestic air travel common and cheap.

 

[Piotrsko]

Reported above

 

[Piotrsko]

It seems they need to be reminded occasionally that the government does not give rights - it is constrained from infringing upon them, and exists solely to protect our rights. We've got the proof - recorded on our hearts and preserved on 247 year-old parchment.

My heart's in the right place but my lawyer needs pictures of Ben Franklin in large quantities delivered in packets of less than $10,000 each until the problem goes away on it's own.

 

[Andy.T.]

I don't plan on remote ID being a factor in whether I fly or not. I might not comply until forced to; if it's too inconvenient or expensive, I won't be complying until officially forced to. I've been flying for years w/o even doing the silly FAA registration thing. I've loved planes my entire life; stupid government pukes aren't going to affect me playing with cool toys.

Another consideration, @F4vet, is if anyone even cares enough to enforce remoteID related things. Or maybe there won't be widespread enforcement for multiple years. In a lot of places, I would bet that if you're not harassing anyone, and/or you don't live too near a high concentration of "Karen's" or other obnoxious losers (or other worse L/W words) that are not "mind-your-own-business" types, no one will bother you.
My point is mainly, I don't think remoteID nonsense should be a factor in staying in the hobby or not. It's a lot of fun, and airplanes are just too cool to not do this.

 

[FishbonesAir]

Bruce Simpson (XJet) has uncovered the fact that the US gummint has awarded a contract to a firm that aims to identify flying drones in realtime using ground-based sensors that are networked - it appears to use Remote ID and other means.

Eventually, recreational fliers may be caught in the web of big brother's overreach - but I do not think Remote ID is where that will happen - it will be much further down the road and using centralized passive sensor technology (not Remote ID), IMHO.

I've been watching this guy in Africa somewhere, who uses gummed sticks to catch birds. Lots and lots of birdies. https://www.youtube.com/@bezehunting1192
I had this image of catching starlings, an invasive species numbering in the billions, and attaching foiling, old propellers, and whatnot to them.

If each hobbyist caught two starlings a day, turned them into a "drone" (just enough to set off a sensor, but not so much that they can't take care of themselves) and turned um loose again...

I have this mental image of whole flocks of starlings, flying around wearing little tin hats.

 

[synjin]

Not that I really want one, but is anyone actually making a Remote ID module that does everything that the FAA wants it to do?

Also, does this kill the fun for the mid and long range terrain surfers? I built my 10" quad just for that (though I'm not a very good quad flyer).

And, is it one module enough, or are they going to ask for a module for each aircraft?

 

[Thomas B]

You will be able to swap an RID module around from aircraft to aircraft. One should be enough.

Weight is expected to come down to 15-20 grams and price is projected to (eventually) be somewhere around 30-35 bucks.

Cheapest approved RID module is currently around $115

 

[JasonK]

Not that I really want one, but is anyone actually making a Remote ID module that does everything that the FAA wants it to do?

Also, does this kill the fun for the mid and long range terrain surfers? I built my 10" quad just for that (though I'm not a very good quad flyer).

And, is it one module enough, or are they going to ask for a module for each aircraft?

one of the ELRS devs made one in a few hours, the problem is that it has to be FAA approved which includes some requirements and expensive "verification" to be approved, so you can't just make one yourself. you have to make the design, then get the FAA to approve it.

IIRC parts cost was in the range of <$30 for single units [ELRS RX - has the needed nonGPS hardware on it and more + GPS module], so could should be able to be done parts even cheaper then that. big issue with cost is going to be related to spreading out the development and "verification" costs across the number of likely to be sold units. I could easily see those costs far outweighing the actual hardware itself.

 

[JasonK]

Also, does this kill the fun for the mid and long range terrain surfers? I built my 10" quad just for that (though I'm not a very good quad flyer).

I suspect that is going to end up BVLOS and your sending out your location info, which will make it that much easier to catch you doing it.

And, is it one module enough, or are they going to ask for a module for each aircraft?

hobby use - 1 module that you move
commercial use - per craft

 

[CappyAmeric]

I suspect that is going to end up BVLOS and your sending out your location info, which will make it that much easier to catch you doing it.

Which shows how illogical the whole regulatory scheme is if we incorrectly assume the goal was for compliance (it wasn't). The federal government is always motivated by the "just because we can" mentality. The boot on the neck is their favorite posture.

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” ~ Ronald Reagan