FT Bloody Wonder - Scratch Build

Eugene king

Senior Member
I'm making the replacement plane now that I've got a few days off. I'll make two right away since I'll be setup for plane building.

Since the HP laser printer also printed random size pages I folded the wing plan in quarters and made the wing plan square. Also noticed that the servo slots were off center by 1/8 inch so I corrected that as well.

Oh yea, then I expanded it to make the wing a full 30 inched across.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
The smaller one is ready to fly. Just waiting for wind to die down.
 

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Bolvon72

Senior Member
Mentor
For my 4 month anniversary of getting the flying bug I mounted a Suppo 2212/6 2200kv on my Wonder. I am taking the incremental approach to speed and this setup is keeping me on my toes but not out of reach. Looking forward to the next upgrade already. I am looking at going with a permanent mount rather than the pod as I will have to keep moving the skewer to new locations because this combination is trying to rip it out. It is the toughest plane of the bunch so far, no other signs of degradation.

 

Eugene king

Senior Member
I have a 2215 1300kv and swing a 9*6 prop it goes strait up and appears the torque wants to make the plane twist. That's one of the reasons I made the longer wing span.

I'm going to shim that motor down 3 degrees and put a 8*6 prop and see what happens.
 

coffeebean56

Junior Member
Hi guys! Just finished but have not flown mine yet. (2 feet of snow doesn't help) The center/neutral spot on my aileron servo doesn't let me put the control arm pointing at 3 and 9 o'clock more like 3:30/9:30. I have used the speed clevis at the servo and z bend at the aileron. Is there going to be a problem with the control arm not being at 3 and 9?
 
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MrClean

Well-known member
Did you try turning the arm half way around? You will get un-equal control movements but you might not even notice it on this plane.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
Maiden flight went in the dirt. It went out and up, did a loop went past me upside down. I reacted slowly and it went in the dirt upside down. Ripped the power pod out of the main air frame. I can make a new one and glue it to the old base since the sides got wrecked.

I put a strait edge on the firewall and the top was about 1mm back. With a flat elevator would that cause the plane to loop out that quick? It also knocked off a fin.

I must do repairs. And figure out what happened.

I have two different brand of servos and both will not let the arms be at 3 and 9 o clock.
 
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MrClean

Well-known member
What radio? I am assuming it doesn't have sub trim capability. Sounds weird that you can't get near center. I've noticed the 180 degree trick before where one way it will be a tad off the other centered or close but frankly if you can't do it on multiple servos it would mean the transmitter was off. You are sure that you didn't have the controls backwards on the elevator? What were your control throws. With the plans CG it is very sensitive and doesn't need much throw. it could have just been less the delicate thumbs on an overly delicate airplane. I know I pulled more then one 4 foot loops by accident, pretty exciting I tell ya.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
My sub trims are all zero. So yes I could have sub trimmed mine to 3 and 9.

It looped out emideatly after the hand launch. Backwards or not it was on its own with a flat trimmed elevator.

Only 3mph winds. And around 35 degrees.
 

MrClean

Well-known member
Well, up thrust isn't going to help anything. It is a flat bottomed airfoil and I know that our spad planes with a flat airfoil on a flat rail with neutral elevator at stall would also pitch up. Man have I seen enough of those loop back over. It's possible that if you had caught it with down elevator till it picked up speed that it would have been a different story. Also, I imagine you launched full throttle? Nothing wrong there but it does make things happen pretty fast. In combat I'd launch full throttle but I'd also give it one heck of a javelin throw. That did several things for me. First, it got my ship over the pitch up speed. Second, I looked AWESOME with my hand catapult style. Third, it really helped me physically get rid of too much adrenaline. Oh, my knees would be knocking in a couple minutes just from the excitement but with the throw, some of that anxiety went away.

Things too look for. First off, elevator straight. You've looked at that. Second, Ailerons drooped any? How about dialing them up just a little? Trust me on this. If those rons are dropping just a bit you've got a pitch happy bird on your hands. Folks that fly with flaperons are used to this. Drop the rons and you can make some steep, slow approaches but get close to the ground, decide to go around and nail the throttle, you'll swear the thing was the seat of a swing it pitches up so quickly. Then chop the throttle and guess what, you stall, your nose drops and you've just planted your firewall. On the other hand if you get a couple degrees of up on the ailerons and you've got Spoilerons. Your air speeds increase and your pitch sensitivity decreases. That helps smooth out the flight characteristics of a flat bottom wing a bit.

But my guess, wish I could have seen it, is that you let go without enough throw, with the nose up a bit, the low wind gets under the wing along with the upthrust and it simply pitched up and over and you didn't have enough speed or forethought to fly it out inverted. If I had a nickle every time I did that with a SPAD Dogfighter, I'd have eight nickles.

Rebuild it with the firewall neutral. Check those rons and sub trim it even. Don't launch full throttle, half will get it away from you and fly it fine on this design. Try try again. This is a wonderful flying plane from a bunch of different reviews. You've just gotten bit somehow but circumstance.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
Thanks dad you make me feel better.

Hand launch was at 3/4ish throttle and slightly pitched up.

I already held the first build vertical on the wing and gave full power and let go and it went up and horizontal all by its self. Looked really cool.

I'm going to glue a new main frame on today and shim the motor mount.

I can't believe I haven't broke a prop yet.

I also can't believe the dynam A21 motor still works.

It's definatly a learning curve going from my hawk sky to this.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
MrClean can you school me on the upwards pitched stalling a little?

I do know it was hand launched around 30 degree up angle.............as soon as it left my hand it went out and up steeper till..............

Are you saying it did a stall and thats what I saw as a loop? Cause I can see that in my head......

Now explain why at half throttle on my 2215-1300kv with a 8*6 prop it flies level and as soon as I give it throttle it goes strait up? Its even worse with a 9*6 prop.
 

MrClean

Well-known member
On my dogfighters (this by the way is a SPAD combat design for frame of reference but it was the same with all of them) if I brought it by slow, barely flying and gave it full power they would pitch up steeply. You have flying speed but now you've got a force pulling on the nose and more air going over the wing, this picks the nose up but doesn't increase the airspeed. Without an increase of airspeed the wind helping to hold the tail in the correct angle doesn't create enough force to overcome the tilt and so it just keeps up and over. Downthrust helps to neutralize this a bunch. Right thrust will help neutralize the torque effects that will want to pull the nose to the left. But in the simplistic nature of combat plane I generally just built the motor mounts 0-0 on thrust angles. When I launched the plane, if I didn't throw it hard, as it started to pitch up I'd simply push down elevator on it till it was climbing at the angle I wanted. As the speed increased I wouldn't worry about it. This causes problems in the furball, of sorts, as when you pull too many loops and bleed off all your speed you'll end up with an airplane that will pull up and hang on the prop rather in appropriatly and at odd times. But fear not, you can have someone have to divert to keep from hitting you then and with the properly chopped throttle you can flop over, nail the throttle and be off chaising bunnies in another direction. I had one time where a very competent pilot with an all over better bird came in on me. I was holding my own with the other targets and knew that all I had to do to keep from being cut by him was to drop him off behind an easier target. It really was a race to get the easy pickins. He came diving in on me and all I had going for me was the wind being in the right direction. So there he was looping tighter than I could loop BUT I was flying next to stall, bumping the throttle and going through exactly the pitch up problem we're discussing. I'd pitch up, chop the throttle, flop over and hit the throttle and complete the cycle tighter then his plane would loop. And his plane didn't want to stall as quickly as mine. 6 times through the loops we went and luckily some pidgeon came by that he peeled off and went after, and got, and i ducked out towards another unsuspecting fool. End of the match I was high and he had just got a kill and I came diving in on him. He didn't see me till the last minute and I got his streamer, over flew and the jerk pulled up and took mine. Oh well, alls well that ends well. We both did well that day.


My firewall is set at neutral. I probably have less power then you're flying. Don't launch 30 degrees up, the bird is too light and too overpowered with a gentle launch. Throw it flat with the right wingtip a little bit down. It will probably torque left a tad and climb a bit. If it starts to go over 30 degrees, lean on the stick and hold it straight. But check those ailerons and make sure they are flat or a bit up. If holding down on the elevator bothers you, shim the motor down a bit and that will help.

Dang, should have put the last bit first.
 

Eugene king

Senior Member
Many thanks on the insight. I'm performing surgery as we speak.

That 2215 also wants to twist the plane. Under power I need to apply aileron to try and keep it level. That's one of the reasons I stretched the wing to 30 inches.

I was at hobby lobby this afternoon for razor blades and piano wire. They have their own Adams style foam board but instead of paper it has a old mono-coat type of covering. It also comes in larger sheets and 2mm 5mm and 10mm thickness

May try some of it. May be use the 2mm stuff on my little champ for wing replacements. Bella grabbed the wing tip of it and wrecked it again during puppy exercise.

Edit. The A21 dynam motor is a 1300kv and about 12-15amps. Not too big. The 2215 motor is 35a
 
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