FT Bronco VTOL

tomlogan1

Elite member
Will do tomorrow. I’m rebuilding now, ordered new drone motors on a sale today to make things lighter.
Another question: What receiver/ports are you using? I figure with 5 servos (ailerons, elevator, VTOL plus 3 motors) the minimum would be 7 ports assuming ailerons on a Y connector. I'm planning on using a 10 port FlySky receiver, but is that enough for all the hardware plus INAV?
 

FlyerInStyle

Master member
Another question: What receiver/ports are you using? I figure with 5 servos (ailerons, elevator, VTOL plus 3 motors) the minimum would be 7 ports assuming ailerons on a Y connector. I'm planning on using a 10 port FlySky receiver, but is that enough for all the hardware plus INAV?
You want to use an sbus receiver if you use flysky, a fs-a8s will work, the flight controller handles all the ports all that the tx has to output is 4 channels normally expected (roll, pitch, throttle, yaw) and then a channel for each mode, like arm, mode, transition, etc. I believe I got to 12 channels on my boomin flerken VTOL due to GPS but it was just too many switches to remember. I used the fs-a8s and it worked really well.
 

tomlogan1

Elite member
NOT trying to get into a flame war here, but just trying to understand why a 6 axis gyro and a receiver with the sufficient number of channels would not work as a VTOL. I DO have a flight controller on the bench and have installed INAV but after watching a number of very detailed INAV videos, the gyro seems MUCH easier. Granted, no return to home, no routing, but with enough power, vertical takeoff should be feasible and landing also, albeit, a little more difficult due to reverse transition. I fully admit such a gyro-based VTOL would be primitive but would it work?

No disrespect to those who've done flight controllers and as I said, I have one on the shelf in the event I can't make the gyro work but I guess I'm stubborn and willing to crash a few to see if I can make it work.

Off my soap box.
 

jpot1

Elite member
@tomlogan1 if you wanted to fly as a drone OR fly as a plane I think a basic gyro could do it. However I don’t think a gyro can pivot the tilt servos for yaw stability in drone mode and pivot A tail surfaces for yaw stability in plane mode. It could do one or the other.

A FC lets you set up both modes and what servos are stabilized in each mode separately.
 

Houndpup Rc

Legendary member
@tomlogan1 if you wanted to fly as a drone OR fly as a plane I think a basic gyro could do it. However I don’t think a gyro can pivot the tilt servos for yaw stability in drone mode and pivot A tail surfaces for yaw stability in plane mode. It could do one or the other.

A FC lets you set up both modes and what servos are stabilized in each mode separately.
NOT trying to get into a flame war here, but just trying to understand why a 6 axis gyro and a receiver with the sufficient number of channels would not work as a VTOL. I DO have a flight controller on the bench and have installed INAV but after watching a number of very detailed INAV videos, the gyro seems MUCH easier. Granted, no return to home, no routing, but with enough power, vertical takeoff should be feasible and landing also, albeit, a little more difficult due to reverse transition. I fully admit such a gyro-based VTOL would be primitive but would it work?

No disrespect to those who've done flight controllers and as I said, I have one on the shelf in the event I can't make the gyro work but I guess I'm stubborn and willing to crash a few to see if I can make it work.

Off my soap box.
Yeah, a FC will allow you to do mixes and adjust the PIDS ect to get a more stable hover 👍
 

Houndpup Rc

Legendary member
NOT trying to get into a flame war here, but just trying to understand why a 6 axis gyro and a receiver with the sufficient number of channels would not work as a VTOL. I DO have a flight controller on the bench and have installed INAV but after watching a number of very detailed INAV videos, the gyro seems MUCH easier. Granted, no return to home, no routing, but with enough power, vertical takeoff should be feasible and landing also, albeit, a little more difficult due to reverse transition. I fully admit such a gyro-based VTOL would be primitive but would it work?

No disrespect to those who've done flight controllers and as I said, I have one on the shelf in the event I can't make the gyro work but I guess I'm stubborn and willing to crash a few to see if I can make it work.

Off my soap box.
Maybe this can help you if you decide to go FC:
 

FlyerInStyle

Master member
Thanks. I have about half a dozen new bookmarks about this. Probably will build one of each just because I'm stubborn.
i also had this idea, its probably not the best, but you could have 2 receivers, or just two outputs with a series of channels to one plane, but one would go to a drone gyro and the other to a plane gyro,a dn so you could turnone off and the other on and the other way around by utilixing a otn of channels.
 

jpot1

Elite member
Photo dump I promised awhile back. Highly recommend writing down what goes where for sanity and attaching inside the plane for reference. My rebuild is done awaiting on new motors.

First two are inav parm’s for drone mode, next 3 are plane.
 

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tomlogan1

Elite member
Photo dump I promised awhile back. Highly recommend writing down what goes where for sanity and attaching inside the plane for reference. My rebuild is done awaiting on new motors.

First two are inav parm’s for drone mode, next 3 are plane.
Thanks a million. Hopefully I can repay the gesture.
 

tomlogan1

Elite member
As I continue to beat a dead horse, the following is how the TX16S is setup to work with the Eagle A3 Super 4 flight controller

Switch B TX16S - Motors on / Off

Switch E TX16S (Controls Modes)
Value 1186 Position 1 (down) Gyro Off
Value 1317 Position 2 (middle) Angle Mode - Maximum stabilization (independent of switch position)
Value 1342 Position 3 (up) Level Mode - (Auto Level Mode) only applies when you release the sticks

Aileron (Channel 1) Controlled by gyro
Elevator (Channel 2) Controlled by gyro
Rudder (Channel 4) Controlled by gyro

Channel 3 Motor 1
Channel 5 Connects Receiver to gyro
Channel 6 Motor 2
Channel 7 Motor 3
Channel 8 (VTOL1) S1 (rotary switch)
Channel 9 (VTOL2) S1 (rotary switch)
 

FlyerInStyle

Master member
As I continue to beat a dead horse, the following is how the TX16S is setup to work with the Eagle A3 Super 4 flight controller

Switch B TX16S - Motors on / Off

Switch E TX16S (Controls Modes)
Value 1186 Position 1 (down) Gyro Off
Value 1317 Position 2 (middle) Angle Mode - Maximum stabilization (independent of switch position)
Value 1342 Position 3 (up) Level Mode - (Auto Level Mode) only applies when you release the sticks

Aileron (Channel 1) Controlled by gyro
Elevator (Channel 2) Controlled by gyro
Rudder (Channel 4) Controlled by gyro

Channel 3 Motor 1
Channel 5 Connects Receiver to gyro
Channel 6 Motor 2
Channel 7 Motor 3
Channel 8 (VTOL1) S1 (rotary switch)
Channel 9 (VTOL2) S1 (rotary switch)
How are you stabilizing yaw during multicopter flight? If given the chance, prioritizes stabilization during vertical mode, you can fly a plane manually, not as much for a drone.
 

tomlogan1

Elite member
How are you stabilizing yaw during multicopter flight? If given the chance, prioritizes stabilization during vertical mode, you can fly a plane manually, not as much for a drone.
Only planning vertical for lift off and landing. Hoping the 6 axis gyro will handle stability. Still going to do the Speedy Bee flight controller on a subsequent build but just wanted to see what would happen with the gyro only. 🤞
 

FlyerInStyle

Master member
Only planning vertical for lift off and landing. Hoping the 6 axis gyro will handle stability. Still going to do the Speedy Bee flight controller on a subsequent build but just wanted to see what would happen with the gyro only. 🤞
Even if you use vertical for just takeoff and landing, you need yaw stablization, any unevenness may cause it to spin in all directions, and realistically it’s good to just have it connected to the gyro (the two motor tilt servos). It may be tough to stabilize that manually. If you don’t want to connect those servos, make it a quad plane, that way the quad motors are in the gyro, completely separate, and the airplane components are int eh plane, completely separate, plus the gyro would use the quad motors to help you turn and bank and everything, as an added bonus.
 

tomlogan1

Elite member
I am thinking differential thrust on the two front motors could resolve yaw. The tilt servos are not connected to the gyro, only the control surfaces. I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions, keep them coming but I still would like to see how it would work out. I admit it is an inferior solution to a flight controller but if it has a remote chance of success it deserves an opportunity to be explored.
 
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tomlogan1

Elite member
For forward flight I am planning to use the settings on switch E to turn off the rear motor so I would be flying like a standard OV-10 Bronco.
E is a three position switch so position 1 (down) all motors OFF; position 2 (middle) all motors ON; position 3 (up) front motors ON, rear motor OFF.
 

FlyerInStyle

Master member
I am thinking differential thrust on the two front motors could resolve yaw. The tilt servos are not connected to the gyro, only the control surfaces. I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions, keep them coming but I still would like to see how it would work out. I admit it is an inferior solution to a flight controller but if it has a remote chance of success it deserves an opportunity to be explored.
ina tricopter with teh front motors tiliting, it is the tilt servos that must control yaw, gfeel free to try it manually, it may potentially work.
 

tomlogan1

Elite member
Photo dump I promised awhile back. Highly recommend writing down what goes where for sanity and attaching inside the plane for reference. My rebuild is done awaiting on new motors.

First two are inav parm’s for drone mode, next 3 are plane.
Still working on two types of VTOL, one with a gyro only (I know it probably won't fly) and one with INAV. Meant to ask you which brand of servos did you get for the tilt? The ones I bought didn't fit and I had to carve out some of the material to make them fit. Thanks again for all of your assistance.
 

jpot1

Elite member
Still working on two types of VTOL, one with a gyro only (I know it probably won't fly) and one with INAV. Meant to ask you which brand of servos did you get for the tilt? The ones I bought didn't fit and I had to carve out some of the material to make them fit. Thanks again for all of your assistance.