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FT What Did You Do RC Today : Caution Offtopic At All Times

I seem to have a problem, guys. Every time I go to the hobby shop for odds 'n ends an airplane ends up following me home. Last trip it was a 4*40, this time I picked up a Long-EZ 46!


It does, albiet barely, fit inside a '13 Challenger fully assembled. Evo 46 out back swinging an APC 11-6P. This is one of the few applications where I'll be happy to run an APC prop so it gets to stay. Should be a good match for a 46 2c(Either this or my OS 46AX).

Have never run an Evo engine before. I've been hesitant since I see approximately the same amount of people swearing atthem as swearing by them, but this engine doesn't have all the trainer stupidity that the ones in the RTFs did so I will give it an honest, fair chance. People are the same way about Fox Engines and both of those in my stash run like swiss watches after all. If the Evo 46 turns out unreliable I will just swap for my 46AX NBD.

Was sold BnF. Great for a DSMx pilot. I run S-FHSS instead. Gonna replace the AR7010 w/ sat receiver currently fitted with a Futaba unit to match my Tx. If any of ya'll want that receiver feel free to @ me. Won't be able to use my usual R2006GF in this thing either; all 7 ports are used and I'm getting naughty ideas about mixing and rates given all four flight surfaces are on their own servos. To use a 6ch receiver I would have to use a Y-harness on either the wing or the canards which would interfere with my idea...which is as follows:

'Low' rates: Low throws, canards do pitch, wings do roll. Set up for nice and docile cruising, takeoff, landing.

'Med' rates: Same throws as low rates, but now the canards are running full elevon mixing. Bit more pep in its step but still fairly controllable.

'High' rates: Throws jump up and now wings are also running full elevon mixing. This is the full monte aerobatic mode, everything the plane can give. I imagine with wings and canards giving roll as well as pitch I should be able to damn near flip this thing over in its own length, to make it spin like a rifle bullet.
 

speedbirdted

Legendary member
I seem to have a problem, guys. Every time I go to the hobby shop for odds 'n ends an airplane ends up following me home. Last trip it was a 4*40, this time I picked up a Long-EZ 46!


It does, albiet barely, fit inside a '13 Challenger fully assembled. Evo 46 out back swinging an APC 11-6P. This is one of the few applications where I'll be happy to run an APC prop so it gets to stay. Should be a good match for a 46 2c(Either this or my OS 46AX).

Have never run an Evo engine before. I've been hesitant since I see approximately the same amount of people swearing atthem as swearing by them, but this engine doesn't have all the trainer stupidity that the ones in the RTFs did so I will give it an honest, fair chance. People are the same way about Fox Engines and both of those in my stash run like swiss watches after all. If the Evo 46 turns out unreliable I will just swap for my 46AX NBD.

Was sold BnF. Great for a DSMx pilot. I run S-FHSS instead. Gonna replace the AR7010 w/ sat receiver currently fitted with a Futaba unit to match my Tx. If any of ya'll want that receiver feel free to @ me. Won't be able to use my usual R2006GF in this thing either; all 7 ports are used and I'm getting naughty ideas about mixing and rates given all four flight surfaces are on their own servos. To use a 6ch receiver I would have to use a Y-harness on either the wing or the canards which would interfere with my idea...which is as follows:

'Low' rates: Low throws, canards do pitch, wings do roll. Set up for nice and docile cruising, takeoff, landing.

'Med' rates: Same throws as low rates, but now the canards are running full elevon mixing. Bit more pep in its step but still fairly controllable.

'High' rates: Throws jump up and now wings are also running full elevon mixing. This is the full monte aerobatic mode, everything the plane can give. I imagine with wings and canards giving roll as well as pitch I should be able to damn near flip this thing over in its own length, to make it spin like a rifle bullet.
Man. What hobby shop are you going to?? All the ones local to me are just Horizon pawns selling foam crap. No engine catering whatsoever. Not even for cars! They don't even stock fuel, gotta special order it and by that point the extra money defeats the point.

Evo engines are... inconsistent. That's how I'd put it. The good ones run like Swiss watches while the bad ones are little more than nose weight. The 40NXs are really popular for Q500 as they'll happily turn 17,000 (though I have seen them break cranks when pushed hard) but it's very much a matter of just getting a good'un and using it! I seriously don't know what their idea was adding the restrictive collar on the HSN to make it beginner friendly. I've never seen it be of help at all. I recently assisted a guy who had a 46 on a trainer and it kept dying on climbout even though he had it maxed out rich... turns out even that was still too lean so we just took it off and adjusted from there, then it ran perfect.

A feature they have that I do like is the angled plug. Sometimes drivers can wobble around a bit on running engines and I have seen them fall into props before. With the angled plug it'll usually fall backwards. It also helps you not have a finger/prop interaction when pulling the driver off...

A side note on pusher engines: you may not need special pusher props for them if you have an engine with a removable bearing housing (like a lot of older 2 cycle engines have) you can remove it, rotate it 90 degrees and then put it back on so the carb is facing to the side. This will change the intake timing in such a way that it will let it run backwards. I don't know if this works on all engines; I know it works on HP Gold Cup series engines but that's all I've tried it on. What's so bad about APC props though? I like them...

And sure, if it's free, I'll take the reciever ;)
 
Man. What hobby shop are you going to?? All the ones local to me are just Horizon pawns selling foam crap. No engine catering whatsoever. Not even for cars! They don't even stock fuel, gotta special order it and by that point the extra money defeats the point.
A good mom-and-pop, that's what. They sell plenty of the Horizon foamies too, but Billy...the main proprietor...is himself very much a fan of glow and balsa. Loves to fly Saitos and OS's, floatplanes. He and I shot the -beep- about engines for a good half hour today lol.

Runs 30% nitro in his Saitos and says they LOVE it. I don't doubt that in the least.

They also sell all manner of fuel blends for great prices. I get my Omega 15% and Sidewinder 20% there, 25 bucks a gallon either or.
Evo engines are... inconsistent. That's how I'd put it. The good ones run like Swiss watches while the bad ones are little more than nose weight. The 40NXs are really popular for Q500 as they'll happily turn 17,000 (though I have seen them break cranks when pushed hard) but it's very much a matter of just getting a good'un and using it!
Yeah that bares out with the way I've seen people talking about them. Almost perfectly even split of people swearing at them as by them.

but hey. People are also equally divided about Saitos(Camp A loves them to death camp B says they're impossible to tune) and also about Fox engines(Same as Saito really). I have engines from both companies and I have a 100% success rate with getting them to run like sewing machines. I will give this engine an honest chance and see what it will give me.

I seriously don't know what their idea was adding the restrictive collar on the HSN to make it beginner friendly. I've never seen it be of help at all. I recently assisted a guy who had a 46 on a trainer and it kept dying on climbout even though he had it maxed out rich... turns out even that was still too lean so we just took it off and adjusted from there, then it ran perfect.
Yeah that doesn't surprise me one iota. the idea was the factory would have the sweet spot within the limiter's range but that's just not possible with a glow engine. Where that needle utlimately ends up can vary by a turn and a half engine to engine depending on a million different factors. They also put a flywheel on it as well which was there to help them idle better but I've always heard they run better when that is ripped off of the drive washer.

Billy has one of the Evo 46 Trainer Editions NIB on the shelf at his shop fun fact. And he agrees; tells me they're great engines once all that crap is ripped off. My engine doesn't have any of it fitted so no worries there.

A feature they have that I do like is the angled plug. Sometimes drivers can wobble around a bit on running engines and I have seen them fall into props before. With the angled plug it'll usually fall backwards. It also helps you not have a finger/prop interaction when pulling the driver off...
I haven't had that happen but I could see it being the case with smaller engines. My Enya 09, for example; it's so so so smol that the plug is stupid close to the prop. I might put an on-board glow driver on this aircraft though; the engine's canted over 90 degrees and I don't want my glow driver bashing a hole in the wing covering. I still have the SwitchGlo unit I used on my Traxxas Slayer that's currently doing zip.

A side note on pusher engines: you may not need special pusher props for them if you have an engine with a removable bearing housing (like a lot of older 2 cycle engines have) you can remove it, rotate it 90 degrees and then put it back on so the carb is facing to the side. This will change the intake timing in such a way that it will let it run backwards. I don't know if this works on all engines; I know it works on HP Gold Cup series engines but that's all I've tried it on.
Should work fine on any engine you can rotate the snout on. I only have two though; my Enya 09 and my Super Tiger G60-16.

Sometimes you can find reverse rotation crankshafts where the intake slot is clocked opposite side of TDC. I've seen them for the OS 25FX and I'm tempted to get one for my TwinStar so I can have contra-rotating props on that bad boy.

Saitos can be reversed by swapping the pushrods to the opposite lifter they are normally fitted to, but you must omit the pushrod tubes to do this. Enya 4-cycles can be run in reverse rotation by re-timing the camshafts since each valve has its own cam back there. Very easy to do and I'm almost desperate for some Enya 4-c's specifically for pusher/twin applications because they can be reversed so easily. NGL a pair of Enya 36-4c or 40-4c engines would not be a bad idea for the TwinStar either, especially with the pipettes Hobbico put in the nacelles to hold fuel. I have my timer set to just 5 minutes or so because if I fly it much longer I start getting deadsticks because, as it turns out, OS hasn't yet figured out a way to sell an engine which runs on wishes and dreams.

Also goes without saying that any reed valve 2-cycle will run backwards quite readily. The only thing keeping most gassers running in the correct direction is spark timing and those little angry bee simulators Cox sold for so so so so so many years will usually start in the wrong direction the first three or four times haha.

What's so bad about APC props though? I like them...
If your main concern is performance, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They are some of the best performing props money can buy! If I was, say, trying to push the absolute limits of an airframe's top speed to the point I'm shoving car fuel down the engine's gullet I'd be using an APC prop on it.

Thing is, I don't much care for having the absolute best performing prop on the flight line. To me, scale looks matter as much as performance does. And Master Airscrew wins that contest hands down. It's not even really a contest! They often have pre-painted prop tips, the blades have a more scale shape to them, the dark charcoal coloring more resembles a real life composite prop. I love it. 95% of my engines swing an MAS prop, I'd say a good 70% of them are 3-blade because I love the ground clearance gains and the looks when it's not running. And when they are running the MAS props I run perform just fine; tellingly FT also uses them.

If APC made a more scale looking prop that was also available in 3 and 4 blade configurations I'd probably run them more often. But as it stands they're something I only reach for in certain circumstances. And pushers are one of those circumstances; MAS sells pusher props too but APC has so so so so many options for pushers it isn't even funny. And this plane already has an 11-6P on it which is more than perfect for a high performance 46 2c like this Evo or my OS 46AX.

I might drop to a 10-5-3p or 10-6-3p in the future if I have propstrike issues on takeoff, though. But I'm usually pretty easy on my liftoffs so I shouldn't have much issue with propstrikes.

And sure, if it's free, I'll take the reciever ;)
Aaahahahahahahahaha no. The R3008SB I want to put in this plane costs 70 bucks, I paid $300 for the plane as is. I figure I can sell this receiver(they go for 80-90 on eBay rn) and then use the proceeds to buy the R3008SB.

Side observation: The R3008SB has s.bus and telemetry functionality. The AR7010 lacks any sort of telemetry or serial connectivity, yet costs more. What is with that, Horizon? Why does Futaba, a company known as much for their skookum factor as their high price tag, sell more features for less money?!
 
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speedbirdted

Legendary member
A good mom-and-pop, that's what. They sell plenty of the Horizon foamies too, but Billy...the main proprietor...is himself very much a fan of glow and balsa. Loves to fly Saitos and OS's, floatplanes. He and I shot the -beep- about engines for a good half hour today lol.

Runs 30% nitro in his Saitos and says they LOVE it. I don't doubt that in the least.
I had a nice shop like that where I live but sadly the folks that ran it just got too old and had to close it down. It's a shame nobody tried to buy it. I would have tried to but I was probably 14 at the time. I remember seeing the OS and Saito twins for sale brand new then! The guy who ran it also had a real sweet spot for YS motors. Had a little wall just covered in parts for them. When people inevitably clogged the regulators up he would rebuild them for something like 10 bucks. I believe he used to be a serious pattern competitor in the 90s so he knew them in and out really.

I don't get how 30% works in Saito engines though. Personally for me it doesn't but maybe he's running the ones on the smaller end or something. Even running 20% in my FA91S it was chucking props constantly but I think all the hicomp saitos tend to do that. Now it only drinks FAI and hasn't done it since, and I don't much care about the slight power reduction because it's already overpowering the hell out of the plane it's on. The smallest Saito I've ever owned would be a 56 but I didn't see much of an improvement with it either.

but hey. People are also equally divided about Saitos(Camp A loves them to death camp B says they're impossible to tune) and also about Fox engines(Same as Saito really). I have engines from both companies and I have a 100% success rate with getting them to run like sewing machines. I will give this engine an honest chance and see what it will give me.
Fox engines are great. Only owned a few but so far so good. I've got a real nice 40 BBRC in my stash right now, with the spinner that's integrated into the backplate and all. Real good running motor, light too; kinda like 40 power with 32 case size and weight. I don't know what to do with it but it deserves a nice plane to go on...

An area I see a lot of hate directed at pertaining to Fox engines is the carbs, but I don't see why that's justified either. The one on my 40 works perfectly, you can let it idle as long as you want and even if you slam it to full throttle it won't stumble.

I'm not sure if Fox motors are still in production. I know MECOA bought all their tooling, and I've heard Fox plugs are still being made, but engines I'm not so sure about. Judging by the fact that it looks like their website hasn't seen an update in 20 years I would guess no. But maybe I'm wrong...

Yeah that doesn't surprise me one iota. the idea was the factory would have the sweet spot within the limiter's range but that's just not possible with a glow engine. Where that needle utlimately ends up can vary by a turn and a half engine to engine depending on a million different factors. They also put a flywheel on it as well which was there to help them idle better but I've always heard they run better when that is ripped off of the drive washer.

Billy has one of the Evo 46 Trainer Editions NIB on the shelf at his shop fun fact. And he agrees; tells me they're great engines once all that crap is ripped off. My engine doesn't have any of it fitted so no worries there.
For that same reason I don't pay attention to any suggested needle settings specified in the manual for engines. Chances are the atmospheric conditions in the factory where they did the testing to get those results are completely different from where you'll be running the engine. I always go with 3 turns out for 2 cycles and 4 for 4 cycles. Should be enough to get it running sloppy rich then you just play with it from there and move on to screwing with the low speed after you get the high speed down.

I haven't had that happen but I could see it being the case with smaller engines. My Enya 09, for example; it's so so so smol that the plug is stupid close to the prop. I might put an on-board glow driver on this aircraft though; the engine's canted over 90 degrees and I don't want my glow driver bashing a hole in the wing covering. I still have the SwitchGlo unit I used on my Traxxas Slayer that's currently doing zip.
I had it happen with my HB 12 once; I fumbled the driver trying to get it off and it went into the prop. Prop didn't survive, but it was both nylon and 30 years old so it would have shredded itself at some point anyway.

I did see a guy lose a little bit of a finger once when the driver fell forward while the engine was just idling and he tried to catch it. Yeah, don't do that. Just sacrifice the prop, they're like 5 bucks anyway...

Saitos can be reversed by swapping the pushrods to the opposite lifter they are normally fitted to, but you must omit the pushrod tubes to do this. Enya 4-cycles can be run in reverse rotation by re-timing the camshafts since each valve has its own cam back there. Very easy to do and I'm almost desperate for some Enya 4-c's specifically for pusher/twin applications because they can be reversed so easily. NGL a pair of Enya 36-4c or 40-4c engines would not be a bad idea for the TwinStar either, especially with the pipettes Hobbico put in the nacelles to hold fuel. I have my timer set to just 5 minutes or so because if I fly it much longer I start getting deadsticks because, as it turns out, OS hasn't yet figured out a way to sell an engine which runs on wishes and dreams.

Also goes without saying that any reed valve 2-cycle will run backwards quite readily. The only thing keeping most gassers running in the correct direction is spark timing and those little angry bee simulators Cox sold for so so so so so many years will usually start in the wrong direction the first three or four times haha.
Honestly with any twin I hate having separate fuel tanks. I prefer to just go through the trouble of one tank and some pressurization system or pump so that the engines don't have to work harder sucking it through a long tube. Then again the only twin I've ever owned was a very old plans-built Duellist containing lots of construction errors which had a pair of equally old K&B 28s, so maybe the engines themselves were the problem and not the fuel system...

There used to be a machinist in my club who would manufacture reverse rotation cams for basically any engine you could show him. He's dead now, but it was before my time. I myself tried to make a reverse cam for an OS 70 Surpass but quickly found out that I really hate making skew gears. With a Saito it would be a little easier since it's just a normal-ish gear but there's also the problem of making cams which is something I can't really do either.
 
I had a nice shop like that where I live but sadly the folks that ran it just got too old and had to close it down. It's a shame nobody tried to buy it. I would have tried to but I was probably 14 at the time. I remember seeing the OS and Saito twins for sale brand new then! The guy who ran it also had a real sweet spot for YS motors. Had a little wall just covered in parts for them. When people inevitably clogged the regulators up he would rebuild them for something like 10 bucks. I believe he used to be a serious pattern competitor in the 90s so he knew them in and out really.
Ye pattern guys love YS 4-cycles but most others hate them. Either they can't RTFM and don't set up the plumbing correctly, or they use after-run oils incompatible with the pumps and ruin those.

I don't have one yet. Want one. YS63 would be a good one for me given the size of planes I tend to fly. Tower recently restocked the Kaos 40 ARFs too, which would be an excellent place to shove a YS63 4-cycle!
I don't get how 30% works in Saito engines though. Personally for me it doesn't but maybe he's running the ones on the smaller end or something. Even running 20% in my FA91S it was chucking props constantly but I think all the hicomp saitos tend to do that. Now it only drinks FAI and hasn't done it since, and I don't much care about the slight power reduction because it's already overpowering the hell out of the plane it's on. The smallest Saito I've ever owned would be a 56 but I didn't see much of an improvement with it either.
He runs a fairly sizeable variety. Showed me a 62 he was thinking of putting on a 4*40.

I run OMega 15% in both of my Saitos and they love it. Got an Fa-90TS and an Fa-45 MkII.



Fox engines are great. Only owned a few but so far so good. I've got a real nice 40 BBRC in my stash right now, with the spinner that's integrated into the backplate and all. Real good running motor, light too; kinda like 40 power with 32 case size and weight. I don't know what to do with it but it deserves a nice plane to go on...
I have an 049 FAI that I put a Cox airbleed carb/3-fin Glow Head on and a 45 RC Ring. Love them both.

An area I see a lot of hate directed at pertaining to Fox engines is the carbs, but I don't see why that's justified either. The one on my 40 works perfectly, you can let it idle as long as you want and even if you slam it to full throttle it won't stumble.
Some of them are wonky. I had to modify the carb on my 45 RC Ring before it would run worth a crap below 6k. Seems Fox MFG simply omitted that little preload spring that keeps the throttle barrel tight against the cam screw that retains and allows it to move in/out as it rotates which every other TN carb has in it. That, coupled with the tolerances between the end of the screw and the slot in the barrel, meant the LSN was basically useless. I took a bit of spring from a ballpoint pen and shoved that in there; fixed the problem and it suddenly decided it wanted to run like an OS.

That engine lives on one of my Kaos's.


HEre's a run video from before I did the spring mod. It ran okay but you could hear how unstable the idle speed was due to the mixture weeble-wobbling around, hear it warbling lean at some times and chugging rich at others.

post-spring mod. Runs like an OS now. 95% the power of my 46AX too; both engines swing that prop at roughly the same speed on the same fuel. Prolly within 500rpm of one another.

fun fact this Fox 45 was one I got out of my LHS's junk bin for somethin' like 20 or 30 bucks. It was siezed stiff when I got it.

My modified 049 FAI running at night


I'm not sure if Fox motors are still in production. I know MECOA bought all their tooling, and I've heard Fox plugs are still being made, but engines I'm not so sure about. Judging by the fact that it looks like their website hasn't seen an update in 20 years I would guess no. But maybe I'm wrong...
EX Model Engines is selling brand new 049 FAIs(where I got mine) but I'm not sure on anything larger.

I am very much a fan of Fox engines but you do have to mind your Ps and Qs with them. Duke tried some strange things over the years. Some carbs work better than others, he dabbled with running stupid high nitro at some points and FAI at others. But on the whole, they're great engines, once you figure out what your specific Foxxo wants.



For that same reason I don't pay attention to any suggested needle settings specified in the manual for engines. Chances are the atmospheric conditions in the factory where they did the testing to get those results are completely different from where you'll be running the engine. I always go with 3 turns out for 2 cycles and 4 for 4 cycles. Should be enough to get it running sloppy rich then you just play with it from there and move on to screwing with the low speed after you get the high speed down.
I've found that, for most airplane engines, 1.5 turns out is pretty much right where they end up being in my area. 2 in wintertime. I've had a couple cases...my 4*40 with its silvercase 40LA being the most recent example...where 1.5 turns out was so right on the money that I'd actually richen it up a couple clicks from there before I flew the thing.



I had it happen with my HB 12 once; I fumbled the driver trying to get it off and it went into the prop. Prop didn't survive, but it was both nylon and 30 years old so it would have shredded itself at some point anyway.

I did see a guy lose a little bit of a finger once when the driver fell forward while the engine was just idling and he tried to catch it. Yeah, don't do that. Just sacrifice the prop, they're like 5 bucks anyway...
TBH those are engines I'd be prone to using a remote glow adapter on. I already use a few of them on my inverted engines for convenience sake more than anything else. They're also an absolute must for Enya 4-cycles because, for some bizarre reason, Enya canted the glow plug TOWARDS the prop by damn near 45 degrees. You literally can't get a typical glow driver on that thing anyway without fouling the prop much less start it like that.



Honestly with any twin I hate having separate fuel tanks. I prefer to just go through the trouble of one tank and some pressurization system or pump so that the engines don't have to work harder sucking it through a long tube. Then again the only twin I've ever owned was a very old plans-built Duellist containing lots of construction errors which had a pair of equally old K&B 28s, so maybe the engines themselves were the problem and not the fuel system...
I prefer having one tank per engine for redundancy's sake. I just wish they were, yanno, tanks. Hobbico put pipettes in the TwinStar nacelles. Might see a three tank setup though, where the nacelle tanks are mostly just header tanks and the main fuel reserve is on CG in the fuse with pumps nudging its contents out into the wing tanks.

There used to be a machinist in my club who would manufacture reverse rotation cams for basically any engine you could show him. He's dead now, but it was before my time. I myself tried to make a reverse cam for an OS 70 Surpass but quickly found out that I really hate making skew gears. With a Saito it would be a little easier since it's just a normal-ish gear but there's also the problem of making cams which is something I can't really do either.
Mm. Would be something to learn. I plan on making that sort of thing a hobby of mine anyway, including building engines totally from scratch, so making reverse rotation cams and cranks would not be too far off base for me.
 

Ran my Long-EZ's engine today. This seems to be one of the good Evos, 'cause it didn't really give me any grief. Did, however, have a magic smoke release while prepping. Found my old DX-6i silvercase would bind to the AR7010 so I bound it up, was doing some programming. Right elevator servo, which was sitting pretty much centered and idle with no load on it, suddenly fails dead short and stinks up the whole damn house!


Wait wait those aren't supposed to be there...

Uuuhhhhhmmmm hitec? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
 

Wildthing

Legendary member

Ran my Long-EZ's engine today. This seems to be one of the good Evos, 'cause it didn't really give me any grief. Did, however, have a magic smoke release while prepping. Found my old DX-6i silvercase would bind to the AR7010 so I bound it up, was doing some programming. Right elevator servo, which was sitting pretty much centered and idle with no load on it, suddenly fails dead short and stinks up the whole damn house!


Wait wait those aren't supposed to be there...

Uuuhhhhhmmmm hitec? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
Should go buy a lottery ticket :)