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Glider with Under Camber Wings? The Lazier-G

#3
I've built slow-fliers with under cambered foamboard wings like those on the FT mini speedster and they make a plane fly way slower than with a Clark-Y airfoil (I tested both wings on the same plane). If you want to go slow, under camber is the way to go. I expect it holds true for gliders as well as powered planes.
 

synjin

Elite member
#4
Well, I'm going to give this one a try. I did this design based on the Lazy Bee crossed with a simplified J-3 fuselage, and I have two different powered versions. They both fly quite well, one under camber and one with folded wings. When the other two planes are powered off, they have a long glide, and I was hoping this transferred to this one. I used my dwindling supply of 1/4" blue foam to save on weight for this one.

There's aren't many places around here to fly slope, but I'll try this out at a few of them...if it doesn't crash. It still needs servoes, receiver, and BEC...and the nose finished. We'll see.
tempImaget59KvU.jpg
 
#5
Well, I'm going to give this one a try. I did this design based on the Lazy Bee crossed with a simplified J-3 fuselage, and I have two different powered versions. They both fly quite well, one under camber and one with folded wings. When the other two planes are powered off, they have a long glide, and I was hoping this transferred to this one. I used my dwindling supply of 1/4" blue foam to save on weight for this one.

There's aren't many places around here to fly slope, but I'll try this out at a few of them...if it doesn't crash. It still needs servoes, receiver, and BEC...and the nose finished. We'll see.
View attachment 201734
Looks nice. How do you like the blue foam, does it work well for lightweight applications? I've never tried it, but I'm curious.

If you built similar planes that had a good glide slope, this one should be fine, no question. Probably better, since you don't have the weight of a motor! John Woodfield (you can search him on youtube) made a balsa Lazy Bee unpowered slope glider that flew great.
 

synjin

Elite member
#6
Looks nice. How do you like the blue foam, does it work well for lightweight applications? I've never tried it, but I'm curious.

If you built similar planes that had a good glide slope, this one should be fine, no question. Probably better, since you don't have the weight of a motor! John Woodfield (you can search him on youtube) made a balsa Lazy Bee unpowered slope glider that flew great.
This is inspired by John Woodfield's Lazy Bee glider. I love that video! And, I just wish there was a great slope like that around here.

The blue foam is great in certain applications. It's not as stiff, but I've done under camber wings up to a meter...with a brace. Works great in folded FT style wings, though it was a blue foam wing that folded on my Storch at 200'. I only have scraps left and Lowes doesn't carry it any more. Sadly, I can't get Home Depot to ship the pink stuff to Alaska.
 
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synjin

Elite member
#7
Tree landing, and the results of my trying to get it out.
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I assume there is a skill set for slope gliding…that I need to work on. This one needed more rudder and elevator authority. I not sure if I want to try a longer tail boom or larger control surfaces. Since the wing and fuselage are in good shape, I guess I’ll enlarge the rudder and elevator and see how that goes.
 
#8
At least you got it down in one p... oh no. I like to calculate the tail volume coefficient to make sure my H-stabilizers are big enough. Don't know the formula off the top of my head but it's not too bad, no engineering degree required.

I have never done any slope soaring, but as soon as I find a good spot I'll be building a glider. Looks like a lot of fun
 

synjin

Elite member
#9
Rebuilt the tail. The same elevator, but a taller rudder. Both have more throw. My glide testing in the yard was good, but then my driveway kind of funnels the wind. There was a lot more control. Now if I can eke out the time to try this at the bluff when the wind is right.
 

leaded50

Legendary member
#10
Tree landing, and the results of my trying to get it out. View attachment 201808 View attachment 201809
I assume there is a skill set for slope gliding…that I need to work on. This one needed more rudder and elevator authority. I not sure if I want to try a longer tail boom or larger control surfaces. Since the wing and fuselage are in good shape, I guess I’ll enlarge the rudder and elevator and see how that goes.
At least it shows that undercambered wings are slow....... i suppose from you started the flying, till plane was at ground again, you got a very long slow flyingtime? :ROFLMAO:
 

synjin

Elite member
#11
At least it shows that undercambered wings are slow....... i suppose from you started the flying, till plane was at ground again, you got a very long slow flyingtime? :ROFLMAO:
Long flight time…hmmm. Well, 12 to 15 seconds. It wasn’t a great slope, or wind. If the bluff near there doesn’t work out, I’ll try somewhere along Cook Inlet’s Turnagain Arm (Cook Inlet’s Knik Arm is pictured above. Cold gray water, full of glacial silt). With 5 or 6 glaciers at the end of the fjord there’s almost always wind blowing down the inlet. I just need to find the right slope (that I can get to) that channels that wind correctly (that doesn’t have bears…it’s Alaska, we have bears, and they can be…grumpy).
 
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leaded50

Legendary member
#12
Long flight time…hmmm. Well, 12 to 15 seconds. It wasn’t a great slope, or wind. If the bluff near there doesn’t work out, I’ll try somewhere along Cook Inlet’s Turnagain Arm (Cook Inlet’s Knik Arm is pictured above. Cold gray water, full of glacial silt). With 5 or 6 glaciers at the end of the fjord there’s almost always wind blowing down the inlet. I just need to find the right slope (that I can get to) that channels that wind correctly (that doesn’t have bears…it’s Alaska, we have bears, and they can be…grumpy).
you was lucky to it falled fast down from the tree then? Its not at ground landed, when is up in a tre you know :)
Take it as a experience... you newer know or learn without trying!
 
#13
Rebuilt the tail. The same elevator, but a taller rudder. Both have more throw. My glide testing in the yard was good, but then my driveway kind of funnels the wind. There was a lot more control. Now if I can eke out the time to try this at the bluff when the wind is right.
Reviving this old thread.

I’ve watched Woodfelds video more times than I care to admit and want to build a similar plane myself. Did you ever get it to successfully slope? Any special tips or tricks as I approach this?

I was actually thinking of using the Old Fogey plans as a base for this project. From looking at the Old Fogey, it really appears to be a close replica.
 

synjin

Elite member
#14
If I could find a slope that isn't near an airport it might work out, however at this point I've not found one. I even did a new version with a folded wing, and I'm going to try a new folded wing with a little wider wingspan (Not the one pictured below.). Still don't know how I'll launch it or where I'll fly it. But, I still rather like this plane. I'll post the plans as soon as I have them sorted out. Sadly, I did the originals in Pages saved as PDFs (Yes, I'm an Apple user.). The Lazy-Bee has a deeper fuselage than the Lazier-G (Which is the actual name of the glider.).
IMG_1306.jpg

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This glider will fly about 40', tossed from 6'. Still, I don't know if it will slope. I'll put this plan up as well (Though, working, so it will take a week or so.).
 
#15
If I could find a slope that isn't near an airport it might work out, however at this point I've not found one. I even did a new version with a folded wing, and I'm going to try a new folded wing with a little wider wingspan (Not the one pictured below.). Still don't know how I'll launch it or where I'll fly it. But, I still rather like this plane. I'll post the plans as soon as I have them sorted out. Sadly, I did the originals in Pages saved as PDFs (Yes, I'm an Apple user.). The Lazy-Bee has a deeper fuselage than the Lazier-G (Which is the actual name of the glider.).
View attachment 227432
View attachment 227433
This glider will fly about 40', tossed from 6'. Still, I don't know if it will slope. I'll put this plan up as well (Though, working, so it will take a week or so.).
Very cool. I'm also a Mac user so Pages files work for me.;)

That folded wing looks pretty cool and the thickness looks pretty spot on, but I wonder how different that will perform compared to the undercamber of the original Bee series? (From the pic here it looks flat bottom so this remark is based on that assumption.)
 

Piotrsko

Master member
#16
If it flies, it will slope, just needs more wind until the wind exceeds the airspeed of the plane..
I have sloped off walls, apartment buildings, sports stadiums, freeway off ramps, anything solid that's at least 20 ft/ 7meters higher than the ground and perhaps 100ft/35meters long (mostly for ease and turning requirements) and perpendicular to the wind. Sharp edges make more lift, a V shape has more lift in the center inside portion of the V. Unobstructed views make smoother air, but may not be necessary if the obstruction is far enough away.
 

Jade_Monkey07

Well-known member
#17
Sloping is defenitely a different skill set. The pattern is no longer circles but zig Zags always facing the wind along the ridge. I like to do a big u shape along the ridge pulling up at each end and doing a hammerhead turn. Kind of pretending it's a big halfpipe. Switch the hammerhead out with some funky rolls and flips.

Technically the plane can be anything, just pop the prop off or change to a folding prop. I highly recommend a motor glider to start, gets you out of trouble real easy. but the two keys to a better experience I have found are low wing loading and very low drag the more efficient the frame the easier it stays up and also if it can stay in the updraft sometimes you need to speed up"dive" so being able to cut through air is important. Slow wings make this part difficult and I've had my plane get blown away because I couldnt get through the gusts. Had to go searching a forest for it.
In the end though, anything will work and it's one of the best flying experiences when you get a good day, you can fly for hours on a single charge.
 

synjin

Elite member
#18
All right. Here are both of the plans for anyone interested. They're tiled PDFs. The Lazier-G is one sheet of DTFB and the Other-G takes about 1.5 sheets of DTFB. I have yet to put a piece to close the nose in on the plans. To date I've done that by hand, just measure and cut scrap until I get a good fit.

They're both a quick build. I should have put servo placement marks (And pushrod slits in the top rear and side rear fuselage), but I put the servos as close to the CG as possible. Mine both balance with a 2S 900maH battery in the nose. Also, I use the front part of the windscreen piece as a battery hatch. My hatches open forwards, but they pressure fit and haven't opened in flight yet.

If someone builds this and has a good slope to try it out on, let me know if it works!
 

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