Help me? Chronicals of a guy who can't fly very well...

[xunedeinx]

Well, have flown a TT, mini scout, nutball, cant keep any of them in the air except the TT. The scout and nutball last maybe 5 seconds before i make them eat dirt. The TT I can keep in the air ok, but honestly the extent of my flight is postponing the crash until I try to set it down somewhere near me. I seem to do better with the TT sport wing extended 4 inches esch side. The TT poly wing is awful, cant seem to grasp only rudder and elevator. The extended wing seems more controllable than the stock sport wing. I have the CG perfect 1.75 in back.

Running a 2206-2600kv with 6045BN props, 30a esc, 4 channel, 800mah 3s. Expo is at 40 with rate at 80, and throttle limited to 70%.
Thing still blazes alkng even w the throttle limited. I just got in a 2306-2200kv im thinkjng of trying.

Any help or advice? Have yet to break or fold a wing, but im on my 3rd fuse due to my "landings"

 

[PsyBorg]

Sounds like you may have the same things going on I usually do.

I have kind of figured out most of my issues start with improper balance and lack of experience to fine tune that from the given spec's. The next thing for newer pilots is not enough expo to smooth out the travels until you get more finese with the radio and learn how your plane handles. Mine I think goes on to over confidence as I can fly quads fine and "THINK" I am a better pilot then I really may be. Finally the other issue is in the throws you use. If you are new don't be afraid to shorten throws by a lot from recommended base set up as they are refined for the experienced pilots.

If you want an example to make yourself feel better about how you are doing watch my last attempt at fixed wing hehe. Feel free to poke fun at me if it helps you mate.

 

[xunedeinx]

Watching that video was like watching my mini scout and nutball repetitively end their own lives!

Good idea on the throws and expo. How much more do u think I should cut them back? My biggest worry is with higher expo and shorter throws, I would be unable to save myself from the near misses I seem to work myself into.

What kills me is I years of flight sim time, almost 20 hrs of scale flight in a 172, and am great at rc buggys. I feel like this should be easier than it is.

My wife thinks its hysterial. Im an engineer by trade, and she says Im great and design and building, just leave it to someone else to operate it! It kills me!

 

[PsyBorg]

I'm a quad guy mate. I just relay my own problems with fixed wing flight to inspire others that are struggling like I do. I will be addressing that very shortly here at Flite Fest. I am going to fly a full pack on a plank if it kills me.

Since you are an engineer I would suggest you hit up Ben Harbor (Mid7night) or Dan crews (CraftyDan) as they are both major maths based thinkers. They could explain things to you much better and are just great guys to have in your "I know that dude" list. I think they could get you on a good path rather quickly. If you prefer an actual teacher type brother then Patrick Murphy (Earthsciteach) is an excellent teacher as well as a presenter of things. You could look up some of the build videos over on FTCC YT site as they have regular build nights that include set up and all that goes with a build.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6c-kIBn1Bp-SnOZpJ5aSeA

 

[Hai-Lee]

Sadly you appear to have fallen into the somewhat usual trap of listening to advice and then finding that it doesn't work for you the way it does for others. I used to follow advice blindly and all I managed to do was to burn through planes and motors like they were free.

For a real beginner the TT is quite ok BUT you should not fit big motor, big ESC, and big Battery because if you do it will require such speed that you might as well try to learn on a warbird. Ideally your power should be around 100 Watts MAX. For my TT and those of my son and other family members I use the HK 2205c 1400Kv, HK 12A ESC, on a 800 3S. This is as heavy as you really would want it. With a small prop the TT can stroll all around whilst you get used to the handling and flying in general. The motor can handle up to a 9x5 SF prop and it still can turn is good turn of speed when required.

Even with the control surface deflections turned down the higher speed will mean far greater roll rate Etc. Start off slow and the problem will not occur. Heavy planes land fast or crash! As for the Expo settings a slow TT cna be flown and mastered without Expo with a little difficulty but again fast and heavy needs expo to dampen the control responses to your finger movement. Just a note of caution TOO MUCH Expo and you are effectively stick banging to fly it. I recommend no more than 30% unless configuring a 3D for sport flying.

The Polyhedral wing flies quite well but you should ensure that you fit the rudder servo into the Aileron channel. Doing that will make the aileron channel the turn channel and so it is easier to learn. How it reponds, (turns) whilst slightly different it is still quite manageable.

There is a NON-FT polyhedral wing of increased span that can almost hover in a breeze but as is usual when you crank on the rudder it will dutch roll. Technically a disadvantage but a thrill when done deliberately. See https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/building-hai-lees-tiny-trainer-slow-wing.33350/

For further and somewhat interesting TT add ons you should see https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/ft-tiny-trainer-mighty-mini.17059/page-6#post-353001

Have fun!

 

[Namactual]

Don't get discouraged bud. We have all been there.

I would not let the flight sim and full scale experience even enter any part of the equation. Those are both operated with a direct connection to your aircraft. Other than basic flight, none of that experience will translate with the complete disconnect standing on the ground and trying to pilot a little RC plane.

Hai-Lee hit on one point. The slower your aircraft can fly the more time you have to react to wind and such. Or more importantly, the wrong stick inputs when facing your plane head on. That is the biggest hurdle IMHO.

Trying to correct a heading with the wrong stick input is bad enough, but after you realize your mistake it usually is countered with a stick slam in the opposite direction which now turns into a waffling back and forth before you either crash or give yourself a heart attack. Sometimes both.

Once you jump that hurdle you will be golden. Just keep at it.

 

[cranialrectosis]

More power just gets you to the crash site faster.

I run an 1806 with a 5030x3 or 6040 prop on my TT with the sport wing. It does loops and rolls just fine, but it also flies slowly enough that I could learn without having to pick it up in a bag every weekend, unlike my first P51...

I'm with HaiLee on this one. Tone it down a bit on the motor so you don't have to fly so fast.

 

[xunedeinx]

Im stuck w the motor and props for the moment. I think im going to slap in the 2306 2200kv in place of the 2206 2600kv, and limit the throttle throttle range some more. At least itll be a slower motor.

Thats a issue though, hard to judge orientation.

 

[DamoRC]

Agree with previous posters. Lighter / slower is better.

I would add one point regarding expectations. I have read a lot of posts where folks are frustrated or concerned by the fact that a plane that is supposedly "a trainer" is so hard to fly, or crashes within seconds of launch etc. But the fact is, this is an an absolute truth for a beginner. You are going to crash - repeatedly and after that your are going to crash some more. When you stop crashing you will try to fly more advanced maneuvers and guess what - your going to start crashing again

I think the fact that you can keep the TT in the air, even if you feel it is not flying but "postponing the crash" is real progress - well done!. And the fact that you can build well (per your better half) means that you can just keep replacing those airframes.

Stick with it - you are getting there.

DamoRC

 

[cranialrectosis]

Im stuck w the motor and props for the moment. I think im going to slap in the 2306 2200kv in place of the 2206 2600kv, and limit the throttle throttle range some more. At least itll be a slower motor.

Thats a issue though, hard to judge orientation.

IMO, use whichever weighs less since both are adequate to power the craft. Downprop when you can. It will help reduce torque as well as thrust with one alteration.

I found painting patterns on wings helps me with orientation. I think it also enhances the build.

Post video from a hat cam. Vertical video is the worst. Well lit, in focus, hd video is best if you can manage it.

If you crash, we may see something that helps you tweak your craft to fly better. When she flies, we can all cheer with you.

 

[Jeeper]

Hey X! Welcome to the hobby! I've been flying/crashing all manner of planes for about 35 years. The very first thing that jumped out at me from your post is that you have too much motor and weight. I think the A motor weighs about an ounce lighter than the motor you have and if you drop down in battery to a 500mah, that should knock around another ounce. On a 10'ish ounce plane, that's 20% weight savings and that's huge. You could also maybe drop down to a 2 cell and go up in prop diameter to save even more weight and swinging a bigger prop gives some more grunt at slower speeds. Keep it light and slow. Most of my smaller, lighter planes ( 8-10 ounces ) I fly on 2 cell packs. If you have a Watt-Meter, you can play around with props and batteries to see what performs best at a given amp draw and really fine tune your motor/battery/prop combo.
Also just know this. ALL planes will crash at some point. I've had planes last 10 years and 100's of flights before pounding them spectacularly and I've splattered a Helcat that took me six months to build on its maiden flight right at show center on the middle of the runway like I meant to do it. It happens. I LOVE building/flying with balsa, but have just come around to the foam thing for fun and to try new stuff. I've seen pilots lose sight of the fact that we're grown men playing with toys. Remember, this is fun!!!

 

[xunedeinx]

Thanks for the advice! Ill get some sort of camera on once i start and finjsh the new fuse.

As per colour, i had the top side painted dark blue to contrast w the light sky. Seems to blend just as well as the silver on the bottom and the lught blue sky.

As per motor sizes, im hindsight the a pack motor and small 2 cell would have been better. But, thats why I extended the wing 4" each side. Figured less of a wing loading and more lift would compensate. If I had a scale, Id do the match, but I reckin its less wing loading than stock w the 18 size motor and 2s. Need to invest in a scale.

2206 2600kv pulls 24 amps at 11.3v full throttle w the 6045bn, around 270w and motor gets quite warm.

The 2306 pulled 19.5w at 11.7v full throttle w the same prop, around 230w. Still hugely overpowered, but less than the 2206. Also, bsrely gets warm.

Also have no thrust angle or down thrust. Didnt seem to have much of an issue w the first one I built (forgot to add it) so I left it out so I can swap 2 wires and use cw and ccw props.

I also have an old Flip hd camcorder I stripped and soldered a 3 pin servo lead on so that it can draw it power from the rx instesd of 2aa batteries. Ill strap that on next flight.

I know adding MORE weight is against all rational advice, but hell, the video might be epic. Also might tell more than a camera on the ground.

The flip dont weigh but half of what the 800 3s weighs.

 

[xunedeinx]

And wow my spelling sucks on mobile. I apologize for any bleeding eyeballs!

 

[Hai-Lee]

Camouflage. First thing you will learn is the colours that look sweet on the ground often look Black at height or fade to become the same colour as the sky. For a beginner I always recommend that Yellow white or red be used as a the base colour scheme. (Red can still fade to black if there is no contrasting colour added). Dayglow colours are highly recommended.

It is important to have a contrast strip or strips on the wings to aid with orientation and additionally a colour difference between the top of the wings and the bottom can be very helpful.

My normal colour scheme recommendations for a newbie, (where possible), is a yellow wing upper surface with a white undersurface, Black contrast strips on the wing underside make it easy to determine which way the plane is flying, (right way up or upside down). Additionally I use a bright red wing tip on the Port side, (left in direction of travel), and a bright green on the starboard side. The horizontal tail is recommended to be all yellow with a Black vertical tail. This extreme contrast helps identify the rear of the plane. The fuselage colour scheme is actually not that important as it can be almost a single line at height.

In profile the only real visible element is the vertical tail so I often recommend that winglets be fitted to the planes wingtips painted red for port and green for starboard. The winglets should be shaped so that they point towards the front of the plane. When the plane is flying directly away from you or towards you the visibility is at its absolute minimum. There is little area that can be utilised for visibility purposes with the possible exception of a coloured spinner, (not always fitted). Here I tend to get a little tech in that I recommend the embedding of a few LEDs in the LE of the wing. A Red led in the port wingtip, a green LED in the starboard wing tip, and a pair of white LEDs in the wing LE close to the fuselage, (fake landing lights). (Flashing LEDs are the best of course). This way if it is coming towards you you will see the LEDs and if going away you see no light, (a black silhouette).

Just what works for me!

Have fun!

 

[cranialrectosis]

Put the cam on your hat. Show us the control surfaces in action. Keep the plane as light as possible. Put your expensive cameras on new airframes after you learn to fly them. It's cheaper.

Did you similarly extend the nutball's wings and did you similarly mount the motor straight on with the nutball?

With motors that large, I would wonder if the motor is spinning the prop or spinning the plane.

It is VERY common with new planes to reverse the controls for one or more channels. For example, I had a problem where my plane would roll right as soon as I launched it. I would try to counter with left roll but I could never stop the right roll and into the dirt it would go. I had my motor tilted the wrong way and had my roll channel reversed in my transmitter. I thought I was sending left roll, but I was sending even more right roll.

Video of your craft in flight may give us a better understanding.

 

[xunedeinx]

No. Nutball was a pod made for that and the scout. I dont believe the channels were reversed, checked then on the ground. Nutball was just insanely squirly. Could have been the motor tbh. Ill get yall a vid once i finish this fuse. Full time job being a dad of 2 while mommy is out selling houses!

 

[xunedeinx]

And nutball was a bog standard 20" diameter also. No mods on scout either.

 

[Jeeper]

Wow!!! 270 watts and 230 watts!! I would think that's hugely overpowered and I'm guessing well overweight as well. The TT should weigh about 8-10 ounces all up weight? Am I correct on this from what I'm reading in the specs? I haven't built one yet, but I have one on the way and a tiny scout as well. I also got the "A" power pack for them. After I build mine, I'll weigh it all up ready to fly and share some watt-meter readings with different cell counts/prop combo's.
A trainer shouldn't need more than 75-100 watts per pound to fly nicely. A hugely overpowered plane will also have a tendency to roll to the left upon hand launch due to torque of the motor until it picks up some speed. That adds another level of complexity to the launch. Remember, light and slow for a trainer. You can always add more power later after you learn to fly. I'll bet right now you're trying to hold onto a tiger by the tail with that all that power.

 

[xunedeinx]

Yup your right based on the specs. I really need to get a video up for yall with the new fuse.

I dont think its as heavy as yall think. The wing is paperless, with a layer of thin tape on the outside and a 1/16 spwr 2/3 of the span right behind the spar. Feels lighter with 2 9g servos than the stock sport wing servoless.

Also, have yet to break it as well. Used two strips of adhesive backed teflon coayed fiberglass for the LE. Seems to hold up well.

 

[Jeeper]

How much does your TT weigh all up? Battery and everything, ready to fly?