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Hey YOU! New girl or new guy, shut up and listen (or: My Simple scout build thread)

hiroshiman

Active member
#1
Yeah... This has to be taken with a grain of salt, and humour.

Sooooo, when you join a forum where people know what they're talking about, you just follow their advice, period. If you don't, you end up scratch building a plane that looks good, and then needs fixing before it even leaves the ground.

I wanted to build the Simple cub, cos it sounded like fun and easy, and ended up building a Simple Scout cos @FDS said it would be easier to fly for a newbie. He also mentioned that the nose should be built something like 3cm longer to counteract the tail weight, especially because I was building it with EU foamboard (5mm), so I took a mental note of that. THEN I started building and got lost into cutting, folding and gluing. I kind of remembered the "make the nose longer" like a ghosty sentence, and thought that it would all be okay because my motor was heavy, the battery was bigger than the one in the kit, and things would just work out anyway. Turns out, the plane is damn tail heavy....

Shut up and listen, *note to myself*, because those who are arrogant enough to give you advice are actually not, they do it because they have a clue, and you don't.... This is now my official Simple scout build thread.

So the plane is built and equipped with these parts, I hope this will help people who are looking for supply and find it a bit confusing when they start (totally normal):
Support Mat Graphic Airplac®, 50 x 70cm - 5 mm
HobbyKing 30A ESC 3A UBEC
HXT900 Micro Servo 1.6kg / 0.12sec / 9g
PROPDRIVE V2 2826 1100kv Brushless Outrunner Motor
OrangeRx R620X V2 6Ch 2.4GHz DSM2 / DSMX Comp Full Range Rx w / Sat, Div Ant, F / Safe & SBUS
PolyMax 3.5mm Gold Connectors 10 PAIRS (20PC)
Nylon XT60 Connectors Male/Female (5 pairs) GENUINE
GEMFAN SLOWFLY ABS PROPELLER 9X4.7 BLACK (CCW) (4PCS)
0.055 Music Wire 36 Inches Pack of 3
1/8 Music Wire 36 Inches
Turnigy Nano-Tech 1800mAh 3S 30C Lipo Pack w/XT60
OrangeRx Tx6i Full Range 2.4GHz DSM2/DSMX compatible 6ch Radio System (Mode 1) International Version
TURNIGY E3 COMPACT 2S/3S LIPO CHARGER 100-240V (EU PLUG)

Things you may want to consider buying
BATTERY MONITOR 2-6S
LITHIUM POLYMER CHARGE PACK 18X22CM SACK
TURNIGY 8S BATTERY CAPACITY METER - BATTERY VOLTAGE CAPACITY CHECKER - BALANCE DISCHARGER/ SERVO TESTER
4 X AA BATTERY HOLDER (RX PACK) (for testing servos using the above product)

The plane is built. Sadly I can't weight it. It looked just like it should have had at the end of the build, and then I ended up having to make the power pod 5cm longer to balance it, that's why you shut up and listen.

This is what your plane looks like when you finish it:

20191029_214136.jpg

This is what happens when you need to make a long power pod:
20191030_203928.jpg

This is what it looks like after installing the whole thing:
20191030_210408.jpg

And this is the coolest thing ever, when you try the servos ^_^
Servo test

So I have a few questions now, and I plan to shut up and listen.
- Will it fly?
- Was slowfly prop a good choice?
- The fact that the nose is so much longer will likely make it easier to tilt it and not take off (from a ground take off perspective)?
- How long can I fly it with the 1600mah battery? Knowing that I naively thought that this receiver had built in telemetry and that I would just get battery information from thin air without an additional sensor/cable.

You guys take care, and big up to @FDS for being so nice and answering my initial questions
Cheers
 

moret

Active member
#2
Yeah... This has to be taken with a grain of salt, and humour.

Sooooo, when you join a forum where people know what they're talking about, you just follow their advice, period. If you don't, you end up scratch building a plane that looks good, and then needs fixing before it even leaves the ground.

I wanted to build the Simple cub, cos it sounded like fun and easy, and ended up building a Simple Scout cos @FDS said it would be easier to fly for a newbie. He also mentioned that the nose should be built something like 3cm longer to counteract the tail weight, especially because I was building it with EU foamboard (5mm), so I took a mental note of that. THEN I started building and got lost into cutting, folding and gluing. I kind of remembered the "make the nose longer" like a ghosty sentence, and thought that it would all be okay because my motor was heavy, the battery was bigger than the one in the kit, and things would just work out anyway. Turns out, the plane is damn tail heavy....

Shut up and listen, *note to myself*, because those who are arrogant enough to give you advice are actually not, they do it because they have a clue, and you don't.... This is now my official Simple scout build thread.

So the plane is built and equipped with these parts, I hope this will help people who are looking for supply and find it a bit confusing when they start (totally normal):
Support Mat Graphic Airplac®, 50 x 70cm - 5 mm
HobbyKing 30A ESC 3A UBEC
HXT900 Micro Servo 1.6kg / 0.12sec / 9g
PROPDRIVE V2 2826 1100kv Brushless Outrunner Motor
OrangeRx R620X V2 6Ch 2.4GHz DSM2 / DSMX Comp Full Range Rx w / Sat, Div Ant, F / Safe & SBUS
PolyMax 3.5mm Gold Connectors 10 PAIRS (20PC)
Nylon XT60 Connectors Male/Female (5 pairs) GENUINE
GEMFAN SLOWFLY ABS PROPELLER 9X4.7 BLACK (CCW) (4PCS)
0.055 Music Wire 36 Inches Pack of 3
1/8 Music Wire 36 Inches
Turnigy Nano-Tech 1800mAh 3S 30C Lipo Pack w/XT60
OrangeRx Tx6i Full Range 2.4GHz DSM2/DSMX compatible 6ch Radio System (Mode 1) International Version
TURNIGY E3 COMPACT 2S/3S LIPO CHARGER 100-240V (EU PLUG)

Things you may want to consider buying
BATTERY MONITOR 2-6S
LITHIUM POLYMER CHARGE PACK 18X22CM SACK
TURNIGY 8S BATTERY CAPACITY METER - BATTERY VOLTAGE CAPACITY CHECKER - BALANCE DISCHARGER/ SERVO TESTER
4 X AA BATTERY HOLDER (RX PACK) (for testing servos using the above product)

The plane is built. Sadly I can't weight it. It looked just like it should have had at the end of the build, and then I ended up having to make the power pod 5cm longer to balance it, that's why you shut up and listen.

This is what your plane looks like when you finish it:

View attachment 146783

This is what happens when you need to make a long power pod:
View attachment 146784

This is what it looks like after installing the whole thing:
View attachment 146785


- How long can I fly it with the 1600mah battery? Knowing that I naively thought that this receiver had built in telemetry and that I would just get battery information from thin air without an additional sensor/cable.

You guys take care, and big up to @FDS for being so nice and answering my initial questions
Cheers
Good luck on flying. You might just add foam "around" the end of the power pod to match the rest of the fuselage. also. If your receiver is like mine, the battery voltage telemetry reported is the voltage into the receiver. This is from the BEC output fof the ESC. This should be about 5 volts. This is not the real battery voltage. You may have a 12 volt battery but you telemetry would show 5 volts. To get true battery voltage you would need a voltage sensor.
It is a good looking build, Hope you get it to fly
 

FDS

Well-known member
#3
Slow fly props are fine. The motor spins a big prop slowly, gives plenty of power.
If you play with the CG you may not need the power pod sticking out like that, it will likely break the first heavy landing you get, so you are going to need to sort that out. The motor is quite capable of twisting the power pod as well.
One way of helping weight distribution is to put a bigger battery on the front, the plane should be able to lift it. You can also add ballast weight in the nose, you have room in the power pod for that. If you use metal like roofing lead, wrap it in tape in case of shorts and be sure to secure it well.
If the plane is balanced it won’t nose down. I always throw launch, ground take off requires very smooth grass or concrete and makes your life much harder since you have more things to contend with on take off. Get a friend to throw it into the wind with a bit of nose up and about 75% throttle. I throw mine myself, with my left hand, set the throttle with your mouth, keep right hand on the sticks.
Be sure to get your rates and expo set properly before you try flying.
Set your TX timer for 5 mins, land, then measure the battery voltage with your meter. You will have to use trial and error to get the flight time right. Your ESC has low voltage protection, it will cut or pulse the throttle at 3.5v per cell. You don’t want to get to that point ideally but you can’t kill the lipo.
Looks great, WELL DONE!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#4
Well written, @hiroshiman! You obviously thought long and hard and recognized a lesson learnt when you saw it. It's not always "shut up and listen" though. Not only new pilots, but all of us should take all advice given, and make the decision we feel works best for us. I would have made the exact same decision you did, based upon the information that you shared. @FDS was correct in this instance. That doesn't mean he's always correct. ;)

You'll even get conflicting advice. @BATTLEAXE and I, for instance, completely disagree as to the suitability of the Mini Scout as a first plane. That's simply because our personal experiences were completely different. We've since agreed to disagree, and even have fun with the disagreement.

In brief, get all the advice and information that you can. Then you can make an informed decision based upon the R/L experience and information of those that have already been there. Sometimes you'll get it right. Sometimes, not. This forum especially, is a bottomless well of opinions, advice, and information from a whole lot of people who honestly just want to help. It doesn't always mean that what worked for others will work for you. :)

To answer your questions, here is my personal opinion: Yes, it will fly. No, I wouldn't fly it that way. The powerpod is pretty strong for what it is, when it's braced by the airframe. Just sticking out like that, it's going to be pretty weak, and could lead to all kinds of trouble, I think. I would either do as suggested, and extend the nose of the plane to cover and brace it, or go with the shorter powerpod and just add some weight to the nose.

My Simple Scout was decidedly tail heavy and I just put some velcro on the back of some lead weight and strapped it to the nose. Less optimal than using that weight for a bigger battery/motor combination, but I just wanted to fly the darn thing, right!?

SlowFly prop? Go for it. Check your temps on the motor and esc when you bring it in. That might even be the optimal prop for your setup.

Ground take off? Again, differing opinions. I prefer a ground take off. To me it's less stress than throwing the plane into the air. My son flies better than I do by a long shot, but he's horrible at ground take offs. He definitely prefers that I launch the plane for him.

I agree with FDS concerning flight time. Just set a conservative timer, and when you bring it in you can check the temps of everything and see how much battery you used. You'll use more when it's windy, or if you're throttle heavy. Flight times will vary.

You're getting it done and doing it right. Happy flying!
 

BATTLEAXE

Well-known member
#6
@buzzbomb is correct, we seem to disagree on a couple things but like he said it comes down to personal experience. It's funny how things work out for some and not others. Any one on here you ask what's the best trainer plane from FT, 95% will say the Tiny Trainer. I myself made the plane twice, once stock and once with the recommended mods to make it easier to fly. 6 attempts between 2 planes and none of it was what could be called controlled flight, the second was slightly better but just wasn't anything to learn from. Seen vids of others build the stock TT and fly it like it they were born pilots, talk about frustrating.

As far as the simple scout goes it is an excellent trainer once it is flying. Mine taught me aileron control. It was an awesome plane once I got it flying. I did have troubles with it being tail heavy the first time out with it and I got it sorted out. There are a few things you could to lighten up the tail. One would be to remove the paper off the inside of the fuse, but I am guessing that's all closed up on the bottom. I would cut an exhaust vent hole on the underside about 3-4 inches long starting just behind the root of the tail edge of the wing for airflow, and to gain access to the paper on the inside. The amount of paper you will be able to remove will be worth a lot of weight savings. You wouldn't think so but it does.

I also used a 2200 mah 3s in mine so it would weigh more then your current battery as well. In the front it will save you from having to put lead weights and will give you a longer flight time. The 2200 will only fit if you remove the landing gear but if you are new to flying, belly landing is the way to go. I know it looks cool to land nicely on the wheels but that takes practice and patience. As a new pilot you will be coming down harder then expected and the landing gear becomes a lever that tears the plane apart for you to fix. Just a thought.

Conclusion, plane will fly, just needs some tweeks. Good Luck
 

Piotrsko

Well-known member
#7
Old timer comments: charge the battery, hang on really hard, run motor full throttle until it stops. That's how long it runs, the motor controller has stops to still fly a while longer. Be careful, those props are great at shredding stuff like arms and fingers. You can stop every so often to check if the motor or ESC is getting too hot if you want.

An ounce (50 grams) isn't too much noseweight, some people use pennies or other small coins stuck on with tape. One glider I built needed 2 pounds (900 grams) noseweight. Your pictures indicate the battery can go behind the motor.

Yes it will fly
 

hiroshiman

Active member
#8
@moret: Yeah I thought that adding foam could stiffen it a bit. I don't mind too much about the visual flaw of the nose right now, it's being able to fly it and not destroy it right away that frightens me. I'll make it shorter and add weight.
Oh, in theory there is built in sensors on that receiver but not much info from HobbyKing.
1572683799541.png
Thanks mate, I also hope I'll get it to fly

@FDS Good to know that the slow props are good, it means that I can focus on this CG issue, it was the one thing I did not ask you guys about when looking for parts.
About ground take off, it's a bit of a dream for me to do it this way. I will not if I don't find a suitable playing ground, but oh boy, I would really love to see it take off by itself. I might not do that at the first flight though.
And about the CG, well everyone seems to agree that weight on the front is the easiest way for fixing the issue. Changing the design at this point seems like a bad idea anyway, it was simply not meant to be built this way.
Thanks mate

@buzzbomb Yeah that was a good life lesson. I tend to be a bit arrogant sometimes, or to think that I'll work things out when I see a flaw. But it's so much easier to do it right right away, right? I'll see what works better for me after flying the darn thing, because I wanna fly it! I'll use some metal, I already have 2 batteries and I'm afraid of these potential flaming bombs, I won't buy another one right now. Plus I already spent a lot of money...
On the flight time subject, I will do as you and FDS say, trial and error seems necessary.
Thanks mate

@BATTLEAXE It's true that many people say the scout is easy to fly, well I guess I'll just find out.
Your tweak is interesting, I might try it after flying the plane, just to prevent from changing the design right away as stated before. And the weight trick is a quick fix. Like you said, my initial thought when reading you was that it would not make it much lighter, but I said I would listen so it's probably surprisingly efficient. The problem with that foamboard is that the paper is quite hard to peel, I wonder if I would be able to work from a hole, but hey, why not? Maybe I also used too much glue (yes, it's all closed up). Belly landing ? But it looks so cool with the wheels!
Thanks mate

@Piotrsko Oh man I'm so going to try what you proposed. I did try the motor at full speed just to feel if it was strong and there was definitely good traction. By the way I did that before putting on the barbecue sticks last week-end... It's only after I realized it could have popped right out... *facepalm. It would have ended up in my aquarium, luckily it was snug enough. :censored:
Thanks mate

Really really big up to everyone guys. You give me confidence that I can carry on with that project and I will try to follow your lead the best I can. I'm happy I made the mistakes I made, I already learned a lot. By the way I really like the atmosphere in that forum. You guys obviously like to share your passion and good mood, I appreciate it.

So, I'm fixing the plane this weekend, and I might start cutting some parts for a Mighty Mini DR1 because it looks crazy cool, an also because the weather forecast here is just horrible, rain for the next days... This is Lausanne for the upcoming days:
1572688085130.png

Right, let's head to the shop, and do some fixing.

Thank you so much guys! You take care and enjoy your weekend!
Cheers
 

Piotrsko

Well-known member
#10
No the motor would not have ended up in the aquarium. It would have proken the prop, spun up a mess in the wires, cut the crap out of everything in the front and bend the pins on the radio. Trust me on that one. Them esc to motor connections are hard to pull apart.

FYI: I guarantee that you'll never get to do all the stupid stuff I survived with RC airplanes. With all the combined "Wow I lived through that? " On this site it will be even harder. "Don't do that at home, trust us, we're experts"
 

moret

Active member
#12
@moret: Yeah I thought that adding foam could stiffen it a bit. I don't mind too much about the visual flaw of the nose right now, it's being able to fly it and not destroy it right away that frightens me. I'll make it shorter and add weight.
Oh, in theory there is built in sensors on that receiver but not much info from HobbyKing

@FDS Good to know that the slow props are good, it means that I can focus on this CG issue, it was the one thing I did not ask you guys about when looking for parts.
About ground take off, it's a bit of a dream for me to do it this way. I will not if I don't find a suitable playing ground, but oh boy, I would really love to see it take off by itself. I might not do that at the first flight though.

Cheers
To me that looks like a place on your receiver to plug in an RPM, AMP and voltage/temperature sensor.
Sometime a person needs the mindset that they are setting up a crash test just to see how the plane holds together. Think boy I want to see a really great crash. You don't feel as bad if you do crash and smile bigger if you don't

I find it easier to ground take off then hand. the Simple cub gets wild sometime but the scout is really good at take off and landing. Hold full up elevator then throttle up slowly. This will keep the tail on the ground and help the plane to go straight. As you learn your plane you may need to hold some right rudder. As you get up some speed let the elevator go back to center. The plane may raise by itself or the tail may come up. If the tail come up pull back on the stick slowly and come off the ground. On a ground take off you start with your hands on the controls instead of trying to jump back on them. A slow throttle up will help with the left roll. I fly off a club's grass field and use 3 inch wheels. But I also mow the field a lot and we cut it short on the runway

I have a scout, mustang, spit, 3D, and timber X they all handle the ground OK. I have a wing and if I can get it in the for 10 seconds ( I am getting better) then I can fly it 10 minutes.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#17
@moret: Yeah I thought that adding foam could stiffen it a bit. I don't mind too much about the visual flaw of the nose right now, it's being able to fly it and not destroy it right away that frightens me. I'll make it shorter and add weight.
Oh, in theory there is built in sensors on that receiver but not much info from HobbyKing.
View attachment 146932
Thanks mate, I also hope I'll get it to fly

@FDS Good to know that the slow props are good, it means that I can focus on this CG issue, it was the one thing I did not ask you guys about when looking for parts.
About ground take off, it's a bit of a dream for me to do it this way. I will not if I don't find a suitable playing ground, but oh boy, I would really love to see it take off by itself. I might not do that at the first flight though.
And about the CG, well everyone seems to agree that weight on the front is the easiest way for fixing the issue. Changing the design at this point seems like a bad idea anyway, it was simply not meant to be built this way.
Thanks mate

@buzzbomb Yeah that was a good life lesson. I tend to be a bit arrogant sometimes, or to think that I'll work things out when I see a flaw. But it's so much easier to do it right right away, right? I'll see what works better for me after flying the darn thing, because I wanna fly it! I'll use some metal, I already have 2 batteries and I'm afraid of these potential flaming bombs, I won't buy another one right now. Plus I already spent a lot of money...
On the flight time subject, I will do as you and FDS say, trial and error seems necessary.
Thanks mate

@BATTLEAXE It's true that many people say the scout is easy to fly, well I guess I'll just find out.
Your tweak is interesting, I might try it after flying the plane, just to prevent from changing the design right away as stated before. And the weight trick is a quick fix. Like you said, my initial thought when reading you was that it would not make it much lighter, but I said I would listen so it's probably surprisingly efficient. The problem with that foamboard is that the paper is quite hard to peel, I wonder if I would be able to work from a hole, but hey, why not? Maybe I also used too much glue (yes, it's all closed up). Belly landing ? But it looks so cool with the wheels!
Thanks mate

@Piotrsko Oh man I'm so going to try what you proposed. I did try the motor at full speed just to feel if it was strong and there was definitely good traction. By the way I did that before putting on the barbecue sticks last week-end... It's only after I realized it could have popped right out... *facepalm. It would have ended up in my aquarium, luckily it was snug enough. :censored:
Thanks mate

Really really big up to everyone guys. You give me confidence that I can carry on with that project and I will try to follow your lead the best I can. I'm happy I made the mistakes I made, I already learned a lot. By the way I really like the atmosphere in that forum. You guys obviously like to share your passion and good mood, I appreciate it.

So, I'm fixing the plane this weekend, and I might start cutting some parts for a Mighty Mini DR1 because it looks crazy cool, an also because the weather forecast here is just horrible, rain for the next days... This is Lausanne for the upcoming days:
View attachment 146933

Right, let's head to the shop, and do some fixing.

Thank you so much guys! You take care and enjoy your weekend!
Cheers
Telemetry sensors tend to vary, but voltage sensors often just end up being a cable with the right connectors and dirt cheap.

A healthy respect for lipos is good, being scared of them is unwarranted. If using a reasonably good balance charger, and not storing them charged, you will be mostly ok. Best to store them in a metal box, cook pot, lipo bag, ect if leaving for long periods. Also best to charge them in a fire proof container like a metal bowl or pot with a lid if charging in the house. That all said. Only pieces of my advise I follow are a good charger and not storing charged (when I remember), and have never had a fire or smoke show. Believe it or not, even shooting one fully charged with a 45 acp round did not cause a fire.
 

bracesport

Well-known member
#20
@hiroshiman - three weeks ago I totalled my sailplane and today it is back with a new 3D printed fuse and a new tail - will it fly - it will of course, as someone told me anything will fly with enough power! It is true I have built a few planes and it is also true my flying time is limited, but what I can say is that if you follow plans, reference other planes that are similar, and generally build to a specification, it will fly!

With props, I have never flown with anything other than a 1000kv motor and a slow fly prop - from the TT to a 1.5m sailplane they have worked for me.

For weight, a light plane will fly easier, but just under a kg has been great for my learning - recently I had some time slope soaring and the opposite was the norm (I had to add 400g of ballast just to stay in the air)!

For balance I have stuck with having the CG at about 30% of the wing from the leading edge and that has served me well!