HobbyKing "Spec FPV250 Racing" Mini Quad
- Thread starter Mustang7302
- Start date
Mustang7302
Senior Member
So I placed my order this morning from the International Warehouse using Registered Airmail for the Spec FPV250 Racing Quad ARF Kit and a pair of Turnigy 1000mAh 3S 20C LiPo batteries. I then went to ReadyToFlyQuads and ordered a MultiWii Based Flip 2.5 Flight Controller.
While a KK2.1 would be ideal for this Spec Racer kit, I went with the flip for two reasons. First is that I wanted to give MultiWii/Arduino based flight controllers another chance with a simple setup, but second is that the KK2.1's are out of stock (US Warehouse).
I dont immediately plan on using this mini 250 quad for FPV, rather I plan to use it as a light weight bashing quad for acro training. I will still keep my DJI F330 with Naza M-Lite & GPS as my FPV quad of choice for the foreseeable future.
Updates to come when parts arrive and I put the little guy together. If you order this kit, post in here so we can keep discussion around this kit together for anyone else interested. I see this being a decent first quad too. It is very reasonably affordable, takes a lot of the hard part of picking parts out of the equation, should be pretty resistant to damage in crashes, and it is a great step stone from something like a Nano QX before getting into something bigger and hairier.
While a KK2.1 would be ideal for this Spec Racer kit, I went with the flip for two reasons. First is that I wanted to give MultiWii/Arduino based flight controllers another chance with a simple setup, but second is that the KK2.1's are out of stock (US Warehouse).
I dont immediately plan on using this mini 250 quad for FPV, rather I plan to use it as a light weight bashing quad for acro training. I will still keep my DJI F330 with Naza M-Lite & GPS as my FPV quad of choice for the foreseeable future.
Updates to come when parts arrive and I put the little guy together. If you order this kit, post in here so we can keep discussion around this kit together for anyone else interested. I see this being a decent first quad too. It is very reasonably affordable, takes a lot of the hard part of picking parts out of the equation, should be pretty resistant to damage in crashes, and it is a great step stone from something like a Nano QX before getting into something bigger and hairier.
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Greg2B
Senior Member
Looks pretty sweet. It is at the right price where If it was in the US warehouse I could see my self getting it. I really like the small size form. It's too bad they couldn't ship it with a FC like in some of their other ARF's. (Is this really a true ARF's since you pretty much have to build it from nothing? There just giving you a kit with the parts.)
I like the idea of going to the MultiWii to learn flips and rolls. I am doing it on my Knuckle I quad.
MultiWii allows flips and rolls in Horizon (auto level) mode where the KK2 does not. The KK2 is a MUCH simpler board and I don't recommend MultiWii for newbies, but this copter sure fits the bill for a newbie's small, light copter.
I would have gone for 30C batteries though...
MultiWii allows flips and rolls in Horizon (auto level) mode where the KK2 does not. The KK2 is a MUCH simpler board and I don't recommend MultiWii for newbies, but this copter sure fits the bill for a newbie's small, light copter.
I would have gone for 30C batteries though...
Mustang7302
Senior Member
I would like to think the kit will make it to the US Warehouse, but I am not patient enough to wait for it. I like the smaller quads myself, needed something that would be durable, and price point was the final straw.
Most ARF's do still typically need assembly. This kit though will eliminate all soldering so it is a bolt together and plug in wire operation, which is pretty nice. I am also not upset that a KK2.1 wasn't bundled with it because there are so many options out there, not everyone wants to fly a KK2.
That Horizon mode on MultiWii is precisely why I opted for the Flip 2.5 controller. The Flip is a stripped down board to keep it compact and isn't meant to have all the fancy features of something like a APM or MultiWii Pro; perfect for a 250 size frame.
There is promise for this kit to be a great place to start for a first time builder. And for a first time builder, a MultiWii adds unessisary complexity to setup. If you're looking to build your first quad, after having practiced on a micro quad like a Nano QX, then use a KK2.1 flight controller.
You make a point on the 30C battery. The 20C I ordered might not be enough current capacity. I do plan on watt testing the motor, prop, and ESC combination that comes in this kit before it goes on the frame. Confirmation to come once parts arrive.
I have a bad feeling I'm going to end up with one of these. I would love to have a little "beater" quad that I'm not afraid of balling up.
For the price, with all included, this seems like the perfect fit.
For the price, with all included, this seems like the perfect fit.
Good deal, but having used those multistar ESC's already I know that if I was to build one I'd toss those straight onto ebay and replace them with something that can use simonK instead. They're the single biggest weak link I see and they're a very weak link. Those 10a's are technically capable of being flashed - but in practice it's all but impossible due to the leadless package on the atmega and the lack of pads.
Other than the junk ESC's it looks like a fun little package. (well, I'm not a big fan of 3 bladed props either...but I mainly like to stick with 8x4.5's because I'm cheap and can use the same props on my planes that I use on my multi)
As for learning to flip with MW horizon mode is great. The big trick is to set your "PID Rate" really high (The rate box to the right of the main PID's in the configurator) I'm at 0.95 (it's a 0-1 scale) and can finally do multiple flips. I started at 0.70 and that seemed to be about the lowest PID Rate that would let me flip. The "RC Rate" also helps, but when you're first learning flips keeping it lower (0.60 or so) can help tame the multi overall but the high PID Rate still lets it flip at full stick.
I haven't even messed with the acro trainer mode yet since that requires reflashing the board to enable/disable and horizon makes for a pretty good acro trainer already.
So tempted by this...but the ESC's are just killing it for me. Can't see spending $100 on a kit that I know I'm going to have to toss another $30 at before I'd be willing to fly it. Not sure about those multistar motors either. From the photos it looks like instead of a prop adapter they just have a threaded shaft cast as part of the bell itself. So if it bends...you pretty much have to replace the motor. Not sure I'd trust that design to stand up in a basher or not....
Those motors are also about half the amperage/wattage of the 24g motors I'm running on my knuckle. I'm sure this is a somewhat lighter setup than what I'm running...but I wonder if it's really light enough to get good acro performance off those motors. I'm pushing my 24g motors pretty hard learning acro on my knuckle - last few flights they've been too warm to hold for more than a second or two - and I'm seriously shopping for more powerful motors as I'm not able to regain altitude as quick as I'd like in some situations.
Looks like fun, and I'm all down for the idea of spec class FPV quad racing. I'm just wary of the powertrain options on this setup.
(I did get a "special offer" price of $92.82 sitting on the page a few minutes...even more tempting...but my fears over the ESC's/Motors and my lack of budget are saving me from being impulsive!)
Other than the junk ESC's it looks like a fun little package. (well, I'm not a big fan of 3 bladed props either...but I mainly like to stick with 8x4.5's because I'm cheap and can use the same props on my planes that I use on my multi)
As for learning to flip with MW horizon mode is great. The big trick is to set your "PID Rate" really high (The rate box to the right of the main PID's in the configurator) I'm at 0.95 (it's a 0-1 scale) and can finally do multiple flips. I started at 0.70 and that seemed to be about the lowest PID Rate that would let me flip. The "RC Rate" also helps, but when you're first learning flips keeping it lower (0.60 or so) can help tame the multi overall but the high PID Rate still lets it flip at full stick.
I haven't even messed with the acro trainer mode yet since that requires reflashing the board to enable/disable and horizon makes for a pretty good acro trainer already.
So tempted by this...but the ESC's are just killing it for me. Can't see spending $100 on a kit that I know I'm going to have to toss another $30 at before I'd be willing to fly it. Not sure about those multistar motors either. From the photos it looks like instead of a prop adapter they just have a threaded shaft cast as part of the bell itself. So if it bends...you pretty much have to replace the motor. Not sure I'd trust that design to stand up in a basher or not....
Those motors are also about half the amperage/wattage of the 24g motors I'm running on my knuckle. I'm sure this is a somewhat lighter setup than what I'm running...but I wonder if it's really light enough to get good acro performance off those motors. I'm pushing my 24g motors pretty hard learning acro on my knuckle - last few flights they've been too warm to hold for more than a second or two - and I'm seriously shopping for more powerful motors as I'm not able to regain altitude as quick as I'd like in some situations.
Looks like fun, and I'm all down for the idea of spec class FPV quad racing. I'm just wary of the powertrain options on this setup.
(I did get a "special offer" price of $92.82 sitting on the page a few minutes...even more tempting...but my fears over the ESC's/Motors and my lack of budget are saving me from being impulsive!)
Mustang7302
Senior Member
I remember your rant about the 10A Multistar ESCs. They will fly, but they may not be the most optimal. I do plan on finding replacements for them at one point later, but I will fly it as it comes out of the box with my moderate skill level. The 12A Afro ESCs may be the ideal candidate for this replacement as they come with the 2mm bullet connectors (versus the advertised 3.5mm bullets). Feel free to recommend other options here too!
If you use the link I put in the second post, it has my buddy code which had the kit priced at $87 when I looked; even cheaper than the "you're still lingering and let me sweeten the deal" notification. If you can get even $5 to $6 for each of the Multistar ESCs in the kit, you're well on your way to justifying the kit.
I've considered the threaded shaft integrated into the motor bell issue. Both the survivability in a crash stand point, but also balance out of the box stand point. I figure the small motors should be pretty well shielded by the frame and nylon props do well to absorb energy on impacts. At a glance I don't figure that they're at any more of a risk than most other motors and mounting setups.
This setup should be very light. With the parts it comes with out of the box, with a flight controller, and an RC receiver, I estimate the all up weight to be just under 500 grams. Spinning tiny 5" props is a big sign that this is a lighter setup than anything we're use to with FliteTest size frames. This small weight should also help keep it very durable. Sure it wont survive a plummet from 50 feet, but if you're able to slow its decent at all on the way down you chances of walking away from the crash in one piece goes up exponentially. Plus, when you do break a arm/frame, replacements are $10. Order two when that day comes and you've got a spare in hand.
Your knuckle is probably in the 900 +/- 100 gram range. These 1900KV motor are not a suitable replacement for that size and weight. Consider the NTM 28-26 1200KV motors. You can run a 4S on it for some good punch on an 8" prop, or your can run upwards of a 10" prop for more brute power.
If you use the link I put in the second post, it has my buddy code which had the kit priced at $87 when I looked; even cheaper than the "you're still lingering and let me sweeten the deal" notification. If you can get even $5 to $6 for each of the Multistar ESCs in the kit, you're well on your way to justifying the kit.
I've considered the threaded shaft integrated into the motor bell issue. Both the survivability in a crash stand point, but also balance out of the box stand point. I figure the small motors should be pretty well shielded by the frame and nylon props do well to absorb energy on impacts. At a glance I don't figure that they're at any more of a risk than most other motors and mounting setups.
This setup should be very light. With the parts it comes with out of the box, with a flight controller, and an RC receiver, I estimate the all up weight to be just under 500 grams. Spinning tiny 5" props is a big sign that this is a lighter setup than anything we're use to with FliteTest size frames. This small weight should also help keep it very durable. Sure it wont survive a plummet from 50 feet, but if you're able to slow its decent at all on the way down you chances of walking away from the crash in one piece goes up exponentially. Plus, when you do break a arm/frame, replacements are $10. Order two when that day comes and you've got a spare in hand.
Your knuckle is probably in the 900 +/- 100 gram range. These 1900KV motor are not a suitable replacement for that size and weight. Consider the NTM 28-26 1200KV motors. You can run a 4S on it for some good punch on an 8" prop, or your can run upwards of a 10" prop for more brute power.
Yeah, the 12A Afro's would be perfect for it I suspect. I'd probably be cheap though and look at smaller Plush's or 10A HK's about $2 cheaper than Afro's...but P/N design instead of all N so they're slightly less efficient. Other than the Afro's there don't seem to be many low amp ESC's with pads and all N fet design.
That's even more tempting...But I'm thinking $3-$4 is the best I'd hope to get for the ESC's (And I'm notoriously lazy about actually selling things I've decided to sell
) but that does start to get tempting...Yeah, I'm just unsure. I've been looking at some of the multistar motors but that aspect of the design has left me unwilling to risk trying them until I see how they hold up for more people. On something this small and light they're probably fine...but on my budget I need to be at more than a "probably fine" level of sure of things before I pull the trigger
Yeah I'm really interested to see how it comes out weight wise when fully assembled. I hadn't noticed until just now that they even include a battery at that price which is nice.
I didn't mean to imply that those motors would be an option for my knuckle
I was looking at some of the beefier multistar motors as a possible upgrade path. But I'm concerned about that built in shaft on the bigger ones I was looking at. I do have one of those NTM's I use in my bigger planes and have been really happy with it...but at $15 each they're a bit more than I can justify spending right now. I've been seriously considering the $11 RCTimer motors Cybertactyl has had good success with...but I just really wanted to stick with something with no shaft (though I saw he did say those have the threaded holes to attach adapters.) Only catch is if I do go with bigger motors I feel like I should also just go ahead and build a bigger more stable quad to dedicate to FPV use. So for now I'm still plotting and planning. My build season is coming up soon though since it will be too hot to fly much so I've got time to make plans I think my biggest fear about something like this little 250 is that I'd be WAY too tempted to fly it in my house
kah00na
Senior Member
I saw this on hobbykingracing before they had the kit and was very tempted to buy the parts and start building. I've been trying to get better at FPV but I seem to do more LOS because I can fly outside my front door in my neighborhood and I usually hit mailboxes when I fly FPV. I started thinking that if I bought this now, I may end up just flying it LOS and I really want to enjoy flying it FPV. I think I'm going to sit back and watch other people build theirs and then jump in a little later. I am jealous though that you already have yours ordered. I'm looking forward to seeing your build.
FinalGlideAus
terrorizing squirrels
I don't know if it will fit a 6x3 prop but the Sunnysky 2204 2300kv motor would make that frame go hard. That's what I'm putting my little acro quad about the same dimensions.
Mustang7302
Senior Member
Yeah, the 12A Afro's would be perfect for it I suspect. I'd probably be cheap though and look at smaller Plush's or 10A HK's about $2 cheaper than Afro's...but P/N design instead of all N so they're slightly less efficient. Other than the Afro's there don't seem to be many low amp ESC's with pads and all N fet design.
That's even more tempting...But I'm thinking $3-$4 is the best I'd hope to get for the ESC's (And I'm notoriously lazy about actually selling things I've decided to sell
Yeah, I'm just unsure. I've been looking at some of the multistar motors but that aspect of the design has left me unwilling to risk trying them until I see how they hold up for more people. On something this small and light they're probably fine...but on my budget I need to be at more than a "probably fine" level of sure of things before I pull the trigger
Yeah I'm really interested to see how it comes out weight wise when fully assembled. I hadn't noticed until just now that they even include a battery at that price which is nice.
I didn't mean to imply that those motors would be an option for my knuckle
I think my biggest fear about something like this little 250 is that I'd be WAY too tempted to fly it in my house
Afro 12A's are out of stock in both warehouses. What do you know about the HK BlueSeries 12A ESCs? They seem to be SimonK flashable, an all N FET design, and nearly half the weight of most ESCs in the amperage range. ReadyToFlyQuads appears to have these pre-flashed with SimonK for nearly the same price too.
I quickly learned to justify the price of NTM and SK3 motors when finding alternatives which ran from $25 to $50 each. I know at $15ish each that it hurts, but you have to pay to play.
I already know the Spec 250 will get glown in the house a little
.Ive been pondering a build with a similar setup on a QAV 250 frame, but never could just the cost among other things prioritized. When i saw the ARF kit and price point, I jumped on it. I dont suspect they will have stock for very long, and I hate watching for back ordered items to come in stock again.
I have my DJI F330 for a small FPV quad. I have my Bat Bone Tri for a LOS cruiser. I needed a nimble beater quad for acrobatic training; not sure i could have found a better option.
I got to pondering a 6x4.5x3 prop on this little guy for some extra power. The props will fit, but i don't know if the motors will handle the amperage. Once I bench test the motor/prop setup out of the box, it will give an idea of available headroom.
Afro 12A's are out of stock in both warehouses. What do you know about the HK BlueSeries 12A ESCs? They seem to be SimonK flashable, an all N FET design, and nearly half the weight of most ESCs in the amperage range. ReadyToFlyQuads appears to have these pre-flashed with SimonK for nearly the same price too.
I quickly learned to justify the price of NTM and SK3 motors when finding alternatives which ran from $25 to $50 each. I know at $15ish each that it hurts, but you have to pay to play.
I already know the Spec 250 will get glown in the house a little
Most of what I "know" about various ESC's is just from the shared spreadsheet listing simonK compatibility:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhR02IDNb7_MdEhfVjk3MkRHVzhKdjU1YzdBQkZZRlE#gid=0
The blue series 12A's look good...but lack pads. So you'll either need the overpriced programming socket tool - or you'll just have to solder right to the pins. I'd solder to the pins myself but I generally don't mind soldering very tiny connections.
The NTM motors are a great value at $15...but my budget is really tight and just a few dollars on a motor can make a big difference when you're buying four of them
I've also had my eyes on the D28/26-10 1400kv which is a buck less than the RCTimer motors I've been considering and includes a collet adapter. I'm really happy with the D28/26-6 2200kv that i use on my Versa so trying the 10 wind version is tempting. It's also about 20g lighter than the NTM motor so across four motors that's about 100g and almost $25 savings. The downside of both the D28 and the RCTimer is that they still have shafts - though much shorter shafts....I get in enough trouble for flying my X1 in the house....if I had a "real" quad small enough to fly inside I'd probably be living in my daughters playhouse before I knew it
Mustang7302
Senior Member
I thought there might be pads for the 12A Blue Series. Not going to spend $20 on a socket tool to use so little; don't think there is enough interest in to buy pre-flashed ESCs off of me with enough margin for my time to justify a limited use tool. When the time comes, I think I will go with the RTFQ 12A ESCs. Just not looking to set my self up for more soldering in the near future.
I run the Turnigy D2822/14 1450KV 160W motors with 12A Afro ESCs on my Bat Bone. They're $9 each and fly super well with a 8" prop on a Tricopter. I wish the Bat Bone had a little more punch, so I am considering a move to 9" props which will put these motors at their limits. Yes they use collets, but I haven't had an issue with them to date.
I run the Turnigy D2822/14 1450KV 160W motors with 12A Afro ESCs on my Bat Bone. They're $9 each and fly super well with a 8" prop on a Tricopter. I wish the Bat Bone had a little more punch, so I am considering a move to 9" props which will put these motors at their limits. Yes they use collets, but I haven't had an issue with them to date.
FinalGlideAus
terrorizing squirrels
The blue12A ESC's seem to be the standard esc to use on mini acro/FPV quads. RTFQ 12a blue esc flashed with SimonK at $8 are great value. There is also the new KISS 12a ESC's that are smaller and lighter but they are not in production quite yet.
Mustang if you had 20-30a ESC's on your bat bone then 4s with 8"props might work but I don't know much about the Turnigy. It's insane on 4s with the right motor
Mustang if you had 20-30a ESC's on your bat bone then 4s with 8"props might work but I don't know much about the Turnigy. It's insane on 4s with the right motor
Mustang7302
Senior Member
So the ARF kits are out of stock already, much like I expected them to be. My order is printed, but not yet out the door. I hate waiting on parts...
When I ordered my Flip 2.5 from Ready To Fly Quads, I specified the cover to be added and have them solder on the right angle pins so the servo connectors to the ESCs would plug into the side. I got to looking a little closer at the 250 frame and noticed the flight controller sits down into a pocket, which might make it difficult to get the connectors plugged in. I emailed RTFQ asking to change my order to pre-soldered straight connectors and got a reply back from Paul that he would notate the the update. Let's see if I end up getting right angle connectors or straight connectors...
I also found a thread on RC Groups for the HK FPV250 frame which several people have found alternative motor and ESC options. It's a little scatter brained to follow, but still worth the read if you're looking for options and know the how's and why's of parts selection.
The 12A afro ESCs wont handle 4S LiPos. I've considered it, trust me. My solution I think will be step up to a 9x4.7" prop for more power with the orange Turnigy 1450KV motors. I actually flew a couple of packs today on the Bat Bone and was startled by the sensitivity of input to reaction; I had become too use to the numb limits of the Naza Lite on my F330 quad flying FPV. It was nice to have the Bat in the air again, swooping about with the grace that only a tricopter has.
When I ordered my Flip 2.5 from Ready To Fly Quads, I specified the cover to be added and have them solder on the right angle pins so the servo connectors to the ESCs would plug into the side. I got to looking a little closer at the 250 frame and noticed the flight controller sits down into a pocket, which might make it difficult to get the connectors plugged in. I emailed RTFQ asking to change my order to pre-soldered straight connectors and got a reply back from Paul that he would notate the the update. Let's see if I end up getting right angle connectors or straight connectors...
I also found a thread on RC Groups for the HK FPV250 frame which several people have found alternative motor and ESC options. It's a little scatter brained to follow, but still worth the read if you're looking for options and know the how's and why's of parts selection.
The 12A afro ESCs wont handle 4S LiPos. I've considered it, trust me. My solution I think will be step up to a 9x4.7" prop for more power with the orange Turnigy 1450KV motors. I actually flew a couple of packs today on the Bat Bone and was startled by the sensitivity of input to reaction; I had become too use to the numb limits of the Naza Lite on my F330 quad flying FPV. It was nice to have the Bat in the air again, swooping about with the grace that only a tricopter has.
I wish they had some video of this thing in action...
Mustang7302
Senior Member
Getting video of smaller quads is difficult. You need to keep it close to the camera to see well, which then means there isn't a lot of room to maneuver in. Here is one video that was posted in the RC Groups thready by "glue hand brian".
I Dunno . . .
It all looked like a promising peice of kit, all gussyed up to fly with FPV gear . . . . until in the daily he let slip the stock has a "nearly" 2:1 thrust to weight . . .
meh.
Most people wouldn't notice that means their snazzy "racing" quad is underpowered.
Mustang7302
Senior Member
I caught that too. Not looking to tack on extra weight, but I do want to see how snappy it is out of the box. I fully expect to eventually go to 6x4.5x3 props at one point to make it a little rocket in acro.
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