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Josh ,chad

#1
Hi Guys

Question???? why went you my make a scratch build Rc plane you guys use speed build kit ? before you use to start from scratch and my opinion it was better for us cause we learn more about how it works .dont get me wrong your speed build kit are awsome . but for learning it has a lack .
 

CrashRecovery

I'm a care bear...Really?
Mentor
#2
honestly, once I get into the more advanced planes i will use the speed builds as a build guide. other wise i just want to build and fly.
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
Mentor
#3
Hi Guys

Question???? why went you my make a scratch build Rc plane you guys use speed build kit ? before you use to start from scratch and my opinion it was better for us cause we learn more about how it works .dont get me wrong your speed build kit are awsome . but for learning it has a lack .
About the only difference between a build from plans (scratch build) and a Speed Build Kit is that the foam is pre-cut for you. Just about everything else is the same. So it doesn't really make sense to make two build videos.
 

Rimmy

New member
#4
I tend to agree. Maybe just do a portion on laying o out plans, cutting the plans. No need to build all the way.
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
Mentor
#5
I tend to agree. Maybe just do a portion on laying o out plans, cutting the plans. No need to build all the way.
Yes, perhaps a consolidation of all the foam building tips including transferring the plans to the foam.
 
#8
Hi guys

i understand it easyer with speed build kit and laser cutter etc.. but for the guys or girls who are really starting from scratch they have to print out plans then stick it all together than start with foam board it s somtime abit confuseing for new comer or newbie .dont forget it suppose to be fun not discouraging .i dont think they have do 2 video .the speed building kit can be done on it own josh make it so .look at the first video of delta or nut ball . it s really made from scratch. i was reading on the forum a guy who scratch build but his scratch build didnt come out right . so that why i posted my question.
 
Last edited:
#9
RoyBro: I should point out here that I have very mixed feelings about laser cutters and 3D printers. On the one hand, the geek in me find them to be extremely cool. On the other, the old-skool modeler in me thinks they only serve to dumb-down modeling. The reality, of course, is that everything is a shade of gray, and these tools are only as good as the ways in which they are used.

kingbee (and everyone else):

Thus far, all of my scratch builds have been of the Experimental Airlines style, where there are no plans, only techniques and ideas. This has suited me quite well, but I can understand that it is not for everyone.

As chance may have it, I started my first build-from-plans, as well as my first Flite-Test build (a Simple Soarer) just yesterday so I can make some comments here.

For starters, I do most of my work on a Mac. As a general rule, I would rather slam my reproductive organs in a door than touch Windows, which is in an odd way somewhat ironic that I come from a Unix background. But here I digress....

I used to be a fan of the dead trees, but these days, I do very little printing. My Mac is not set up to print. the only printer I currently have access to is connected to a Windows machine. Although there are Mac drivers for this printer, the Windows drivers, are so, [ expletive deleted ] bad -- even by Windows standards -- that I don't even want to take the chance of installing the drivers on my Mac. Here I go digressing again, but the point is, I am here now forced to confront a situation that will effect some 85 off percent of the people out there: printing PDFs without clipping them or messing with the scale.

Needless to say, I could not get them to print properly from either IE or Chrome. Having dealt with this before, I knew enough enough to just download Foxit Reader, which was able to print the PDFs properly.

The first thing I noticed was that about a half-dozen of the pages did not have a full dashed border. That was a minor annoyance, but one that one that really shouldn't be there.

Then, when I had everything trimmed up, I must admit several minutes of pure WTF. Assembling the pages was like a jigsaw puzzle. It wasn't a hard puzzle, but making your plans just shouldn't be a jigsaw puzzle. And why, why Flite Test people, why, did you put both wings together in one long page? And then, I made a brain fart and swapped pages 21 and 22 which I only discovered after taping everything together -- with a nice full OCD tape job down the full edge on both sides of the paper.

Yeah, that required cutting out the bad section, printing out 4 new pages and putting things back together. Ugh. And then there was another WTF moment when I had to figure out that the wing spar was laid out right next to the wing. And I was one of those kids they classified as "gifted" back in school...

Anyways... Yeah... I can really understand why mere mortals (;-) have such a difficult time just printing and assembling the templates. In another thread there is some discussion about the quality of articles on the front page. One thing that *really* needs to make it to the front page is a video on how to print and assemble the cutting templates. And oh, FT peeps -- it would also help if you could clean up your plans a bit so that nobody has any WTF moments before they even begin assembling the plane. I *know* you are not doing this to sell more speed-build kits!

BTW, I'll be documenting the build of my Simple Soarer in another thread. I'll be building two actually. One as per the plans, and then another using a modified technique which I believe will drop some serious weight while at the same time increasing strength and rigidity. Stay tuned for details...
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#10
I have to agree that the plans as currently designed really aren't well suited to printing at home. My biggest beef is that no thought seems to be given to where the page breaks end up - as a result pieces that can easily fit on one pieces of 8x10 paper end up with a page break through the middle. It's not a huge issue but it can effect accuracy and drives my OCD up the wall :)

I deal with it using two approaches:

1) On simpler models (Bloody Wonder, FT Flyer, Versa) that don't have curves I just open the PDF in photoshop and use the ruler tool to take some measurements then draw the plans right on the foamboard in light pencil. I actually really like doing it this way.

2) On models with more curves or complex shapes/parts I again open the plans in Photoshop and then start cutting and pasting bits of them so they're optimized for printing with page breaks positioned in areas they'll have minimal impact - but I include a copy of the scale reference on every page (usually inside a part to save space) I'm always very careful to not resize anything - just reposition it. For final printing I then open these intermediate files in bigprint (http://woodgears.ca/bigprint/) and use the scale reference and BigPrints "Calibrate by distance" feature to set the final size. I then print from bigprint which has some nice options for alignment marks and makes it easier for me to tape them together.

That being said I'm currently trying to get an old large format plotter from a friend who's boss wants it gone and I'm hoping I'll be able to use that to print the full plans instead...but it's been over a month and he keeps saying "You've got to come get this thing" but then is never available for me to come get it :( And even if I do getting a plotter working accurately with a modern computer is going to be a bit of an uphill battle :D

I for one would really love to see a bit more thought go into the downloadable plans. Instead of one big sheet I'd much much rather have them with parts positioned to print fully on standard 8x10 paper. It's not as "clean" since you have multiple pages but I usually use less than half the paper I'd use to print the big sheets doing it this way and have far fewer pages to tape together.
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
Mentor
#11
RoyBro: I should point out here that I have very mixed feelings about laser cutters and 3D printers. On the one hand, the geek in me find them to be extremely cool. On the other, the old-skool modeler in me thinks they only serve to dumb-down modeling. The reality, of course, is that everything is a shade of gray, and these tools are only as good as the ways in which they are used.
I would love to have a laser cutter and 3D Printer, but the cost is simply too great to justify. I've always been good with computers. With my hands, not so much. I see them as big boy toys and they may forever be on my wish list. Can I help it if I have Laser envy? :p
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
Mentor
#12
Hi guys

i understand it easyer with speed build kit and laser cutter etc.. but for the guys or girls who are really starting from scratch they have to print out plans then stick it all together than start with foam board it s somtime abit confuseing for new comer or newbie .dont forget it suppose to be fun not discouraging .i dont think they have do 2 video .the speed building kit can be done on it own josh make it so .look at the first video of delta or nut ball . it s really made from scratch. i was reading on the forum a guy who scratch build but his scratch build didnt come out right . so that why i posted my question.
Your point is well taken. It would be helpful to have a build video on actually taking the 8.5x11 printed plans and assembling them and and transferring the plans onto the foam board. But I don't think it is necessary on each build video. As for the early build videos, the Nutball, Flyer, and Delta, these were all done before they decided to produce the speed build kits. I still refer to them as reference for building techniques.

I have to agree that the plans as currently designed really aren't well suited to printing at home. My biggest beef is that no thought seems to be given to where the page breaks end up - as a result pieces that can easily fit on one pieces of 8x10 paper end up with a page break through the middle. It's not a huge issue but it can effect accuracy and drives my OCD up the wall :)
You're right. Until recently, I've had the advantage of being able to print the full plans on a 36" color plotter at work. Unfortunately, it has given up the ghost and the powers that be aren't planning to fix or replace it. So now I have to print on multiple sheets. The nice thing about printing on the full sheets is that they were easy to lay out on the 20x30 inch foam board. But I see your point about being able to keep the smaller parts on single 8.5x11 sheets. Maybe a solution would be for them to release the plans in an editable format like an open source CAD like Sketchup. That way you can easily isolate parts, much like you do in Photoshop to fit on whatever sized paper on which you choose to print. I guess I'm going to try tiling the full sheet plans on 11x14 so I'm dealing with fewer sheets. I'll let you know how that comes out.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#13
Maybe a solution would be for them to release the plans in an editable format like an open source CAD like Sketchup. That way you can easily isolate parts, much like you do in Photoshop to fit on whatever sized paper on which you choose to print. I guess I'm going to try tiling the full sheet plans on 11x14 so I'm dealing with fewer sheets. I'll let you know how that comes out.
I believe they've released some of them as original Corel Draw files since that's what they use to draw them. I can't find the link but I'm pretty sure Chad has shared a link to some original files a few times...probably in the "Ask Chad" thread.

Since Photoshop can open PDF's it's not that hard for me to reorganize for my method. But I understand not everyone has Photoshop. And to keep things scaled correctly my method relies on BigPrint which even fewer people have (but which is really affordable and very handy if you print plans for things fairly often.)
 
#14
Hi guys

i am just wondering do you think josh or chad read form posting ? if they do will they comment ? i know there are bussssssy guys but it would be nice of them to drop in .
 

rcspaceflight

creator of virtual planes
#15
Hi guys

i am just wondering do you think josh or chad read form posting ? if they do will they comment ? i know there are bussssssy guys but it would be nice of them to drop in .
I think Chad only checks the threads that he has started. Mainly the "Ask Chad" thread. I like to think that some day, when they're having trouble coming up with episode ideas, they are going to go through the episode suggestion section. But honestly, I think they have their hands full and aren't going to run out of ideas soon.

I think they're too busy for us. :( Which is fine actually. I like to think it's because they know there are people that use the forum that answers everyone's questions and that they feel like they don't need to check in.
 

Ron B

Posted a thousand or more times
#16
Hey guy's I'm just getting back into the hobby after 42 yrs and just did a scratch build of the old fogey. There are some mistakes with the airframe and I am waiting for the electronics before I can see how it flies or if I need to do some work on it to get it right. Now my question is this. I have read where some use spray adhesive to put plans on their foam. If you do this do you just leave the plans on the foam? I taped mine down and had to waste a fair amount of board so I didn't have torn paper. My printing job and taping was very slightly off and next time I think I can do it better. I am also thinking of trying to get a print shop to print my plans on 20 x 30 or so paper. We used to use our plans that came with a kit and carbon paper copy them onto balsa but with foam I still would have the paper tear problem using tape.
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
Moderator
Mentor
#17
Ron,

If you're planing on using carbons (not a bad idea if you've got access to sheets that *big*) have you considered pinining it? enough of them around the peremeter and it should hold it plenty flat enough to transfer the carbon to the foamboard.

BTW, Welcome to the Forum!
 

Ron B

Posted a thousand or more times
#19
Bristow Oklahoma has been my home for the last 14 yrs. after living all over Colorado the rest of my life