Knockoff is the New Black

[jhitesma]

Oh and if all you got was the little 123 tune then they're probably not running blheli. When I calibrated my bs12's after flashing blheli I was surprised at the full on little song they played for me. At first I thought it was an error message because of how long it went on But when I powered it up they responded so much better I figured that must have been the acknowledgement tune instead

 

[cranialrectosis]

I always use the short screws on the prop shaft mount for the DYS 1806s. I never found a use for the long screws.

Those ESCs are odd. I have several and I love them but they are odd. They are labeled SimonSeries as opposed to Simon K.

 

[ssteve]

Try the min command way of calibrating as it seems like the same issue I was having. Also the 1806's come with two different sized screws. Swap them out asap.

 

[califrag]

Try the min command way of calibrating as it seems like the same issue I was having. Also the 1806's come with two different sized screws. Swap them out asap.

hoooooly crap what a nightmare.

calibrating the mincommand way was a no-go. these ESC's did NOT like that method.

The ESC's did not take the mincommand when I lowered it back down and they proceeded into programming mode, setting all kinds of randomness when the naze rebooted with the new throttle commands.

I ended up just re-calibrating through a direct connection to the receiver and then I went back in and checked all the programmed settings by the beep beep codes. WHEW!

Swapped out the long screws as well and it -seems- like it may be flying better now, but too late for me to really test (it's 3am).

I think it was probably the screws, after I took the props off, and before I re-calibrated the ESC's I spun the motors up without the props and they seemed to run and stop at different speeds and had some issues starting/stopping at the same time. All that seems to be gone now.

When I was assembling it the first time, some of the longer screws were actually preventing the motor from spinning well, so I took them out and then put a different screw or backed it out a few threads until the motor didn't bind... this was likely where I went wrong and should have just put the shorter screws to begin with.

Will see how it flies in the morning.

 

[cranialrectosis]

The trick to calibrating from the Naze is to not connect the lipo until the end.

Nothing gets committed until you type save in the CLI.

If your motors spun during calibration, you did it wrong.

Glad to hear about the screws. I hope that fixes the problem.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

Yes and once it's calibrated you must disconnect power to a blheli esc to stop it going into setup mode

 

[califrag]

The trick to calibrating from the Naze is to not connect the lipo until the end.

Nothing gets committed until you type save in the CLI.

If your motors spun during calibration, you did it wrong.

Glad to hear about the screws. I hope that fixes the problem.

hmmm..

This was my process (edited):

set mincommand=1980 (hit enter)
save (hit enter)
Click Initial Setup, then back into CLI
set mincommand=1000 (hit enter)
type save (no enter yet)
connected lipo and wait for ESC confirmation beeps for throttle high
hit enter on save

I followed these steps

The motors didn't spin during the process. The ESC's did not respond with the normal confirmation sounds for calibrated throttle, instead they just proceeded past the throttle programming mode and into the actual settings options where it set brake on some of the motors and who knows what else. I don't think the Naze rebooted fast enough with the low command.

Just took it out for a test flight since I made those other changes and it seems a lot better now.

There is some initial forward pitch during takeoff which I'm able to counteract to keep it in the air and actually responding to commands but I think I need to adjust the throttle settings some more.

It starts to hover around 20% throttle and when I back off just a little bit, all motors cut out and it drops out of the sky. I think it's hitting failsafe since the throttle is so low.

There is a 'start force' option for the ESC's ranging from 0.03 to 1.50. Right now it's default is at 0.75 so I'm wondering if that might help to bring that option down some on the ESC.

Another option on the ESC I was looking at was the 'Curve Mode' which is currently defaulted to 'Off', I was thinking to put it on a high curve to see if that would smooth out the throttle response.

I tried adjusting throttle mid to 0.30 but maybe needs to go a little lower.

 

[ssteve]

Ahh that's the problem. For me at least, it doesn't save the command unless I either click out of the cli or hit disconnect. I personally always disconnect and then reconnect to make sure it saves. You should be able to click the box on the motor test page and run the bar up till that one motor turns on. Mark down exactly where it turns on. I think mine were around 1064... If any of them are off at all then it's going to cause the issue your having now. If the esc's are calibrated and working fine there should be nothing left to do except fly it. My hex is rock steady stable with no changes to it. All I have even done so far is increase the rates, but I flew it Los and Fpv several times before I touched the rates.

 

[cranialrectosis]

The signal is sent when you hit enter. You don't have to wait for the Naze to reboot.

After you type mincommand = 1000 hit enter.

They type save but dont hit enter.

Connect the lipo the copter and the ESCs should chime one or two beeps. Then hit enter on the save command.

On my Kiss, Emax and MRSS (HK Blues) ESCs, the time between connecting the lipo and needing to hit enter on the save command is < 1 second. If I miss it, the ESCs go into programming mode and do all kinds of badness.

 

[califrag]

Ahh that's the problem. For me at least, it doesn't save the command unless I either click out of the cli or hit disconnect. I personally always disconnect and then reconnect to make sure it saves. You should be able to click the box on the motor test page and run the bar up till that one motor turns on. Mark down exactly where it turns on. I think mine were around 1064... If any of them are off at all then it's going to cause the issue your having now. If the esc's are calibrated and working fine there should be nothing left to do except fly it. My hex is rock steady stable with no changes to it. All I have even done so far is increase the rates, but I flew it Los and Fpv several times before I touched the rates.

Sorry I should have clarified in my steps above (I've edited them), I did click out of the CLI after hitting save for the mincommand 1980. Since the CLI stopped responding at that point, I clicked to Initial setup, then back into CLI.

I just checked the CG on it and it's extremely nose heavy. I think i'm gonna put the top cage on so I can put the battery towards the back and hopefully even it out. CG balance should be measured from the point under the FC right?

I didn't bother to check the motor startup points before throwing the props back on but I'll do that once I fix the CG and test again.

The signal is sent when you hit enter. You don't have to wait for the Naze to reboot.

After you type mincommand = 1000 hit enter.

They type save but dont hit enter.

Connect the lipo the copter and the ESCs should chime one or two beeps. Then hit enter on the save command.

On my Kiss, Emax and MRSS (HK Blues) ESCs, the time between connecting the lipo and needing to hit enter on the save command is < 1 second. If I miss it, the ESCs go into programming mode and do all kinds of badness.

Again, I should have clarified above, this is exactly what I did. After mincommand 1980, enter, save, enter, I clicked out of CLI to initial setup, then back into CLI, then mincommand 1000, enter, typed save, connected battery, waited for 'throttle confirmation' beeps (per emax manual two beeps to signify top of throttle range), then hit enter on the save command. The naze saves and starts rebooting but by this point the ESC's are already doing their programming dance.

I may try again through the naze but right now it's looking better than it was.

 

[cranialrectosis]

And I forgot to mention that after you hit enter for the mincommand = 1980 save, you have to click out of the CLI...

I had to have the guy from MRM walk me through it too on my Ladybug quad.


Be sure CG is directly below the Naze or you will forever be trimming.

 

[califrag]

Cool thanks again for all the help and suggestions. Yeah it forced me to click out of CLI once I hit save, cause it stopped responding.

The CG measured from under the naze is horrendous. The FC placement on this frame is pretty awful. I'll add the cage so I can get it leveled out. The heavy nose would definitely cause the pitching forward on takeoff and other flight characteristic issues I noticed during last test.

 

[ssteve]

The more I fly mine the more I like the rear a little more weighted, but I don't think the cg would give the effect your seeing in the video. I've flown mine with two 2200's and the cg way out of whack and it was still perfectly stable.

 

[califrag]

The effect seen in the video is gone. I'm able to get successful liftoff (without having to hold back elevator) and control, although very very touchy, and with the throttle cutout issues as mentioned previously.

In order to get the frame balanced without the cage, i pretty much have to put the battery hanging off the tail.

EDIT: SUCCESS! IT FLIES!! Finally!!!

It's totally a CG issue at this point and very well may have been this entire time!!! I can't believe I didn't check that from the start, I am so very sorry to everyone for the frustration. I had the battery mounted directly in the middle on the bottom, forward of the naze, which the frame was already front heavy, so that seems likely why it needed so much reverse elevator to liftoff.

Here's a couple pictures of how I have the battery mounted in order to make it fly stable:




I still need to tune in the throttle, you can see at the start of the video, I take it up out of frame then drop the throttle a little below hover, maybe to 35% throw and it cuts out. I'm wondering if it might be the curve setting on the ESC should be set to low curve instead of off. Or maybe just some Naze tuning will do it.

Again I appreciate all the help getting this up and running, I was beginning to get discouraged with this build.

This is with Angle mode:

I am hoping once I put the cage on top, with a 2200 battery directly overtop the naze, the CG will still be balanced.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Well HECK YEAH!

Nice job. Way to stick with it!

 

[FinalGlideAus]

WOOHOO!!!

 

[califrag]

Got the throttle sorted out, tuned in some PIDs since this video but it's flying pretty nicely

I may need to relocate the Naze cause the default mounting holes put it too far outside the CG and the battery (2200 3S) has to hang about 50% off the end.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

The Naze needs to be in the middle of the motors. Run string between each opposite motor to find the center. Then the balance point should be at that point too. If it's not, some motors will be working much harder to hold the flat hover which sounds like what was your problem earlier on.

 

[califrag]

Ohh yea I forgot about that. Oh well. I ran some string and it looks like it's sitting pretty much right in the middle. I'll see if I can just load up most of the electronics rearward to help compensate.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

As I build my multi's at various stages I balance it out to see where I need to place things and to see how the placement will effect the CG. It makes the multi fly so much better.