Knockoff is the New Black

[califrag]

I think I've figured out the root of my issue with the CG problem, and once again it comes down to builder error...

I'm not using the frame as it's designed to be used. :black_eyed:

The frame comes with six hex standoffs to be used as landing gear, and is designed to carry a GoPro underneath on the floating battery tray suspended by the black rubber dampeners.

I'm flying with a Mobius on top instead of a GoPro, so I chose to not install the hex standoffs/landing gear nor to use the actual battery tray. Instead, I put the battery on top of the cage, which doesn't extend as far behind the hex as the battery tray does and doesn't offer the proper balance to keep the correct CG.



So I see three/four options:

1) Deal with it and let the battery hang off the cage (my main concern is that it slips out of the strap and drags the copter down).
2) Fabricate an extended cage piece from old credit card or something to give the extra support to the battery (likely what I will do for now).
3) Find some way to move the vibration dampened battery tray to the top of the cage (I think this is ideally what I would like to do).
4) Strap the battery to the actual battery tray (and add the landing gear just to protect battery, don't really wanna do this)

I've also gone with flashing Harakiri TestCode3 to my Naze32 and I removed all expo settings from my Tx. The Hex seems to be flying much better now and I'm not nearly as frustrated with this frame now that I can see the error was my own fault. :]

 

[jhitesma]

So I got my emax Carbon/G10 hybrid frame from MRM today. (For those who haven't been following the thread or have forgotten MRM is sponsoring this build for me so I can research GPS on Naze and share instructions/tips on how to get GPS setup with a Naze32)

First impression is fairly positive. The plates make an interesting sound when hitting each other which seems to confirm that they're a hybrid G10 core with Carbon veneer as they don't sound like carbon or G10 but sound kind of like both at the same time

I'll be starting a new thread this evening with full build details but here's a quick tease...

Box of goodies!


Yep, all the bits needed for a quad other than battery and RX! I'll be adding my own FPV gear and a GPS/OSD to round things out. Will probably start a second thread to share details of GPS/OSD setup since that's the biggie MRM is expecting from me.


Only had a few minutes at lunch but after taking inventory and a few initial measurements I had to put a few bits together to get a feel for how it looks:

 

[cranialrectosis]

Oh, I'll be watching this one closely.

 

[x0054]

califrag,

To prevent battery slippage you can use velcro pads. Stick the soft part on the battery and hard part on the frame. This way the battery will not be able to slide out. Still use the strap to secure, of course. I do that on all my models.

 

[califrag]

califrag,

To prevent battery slippage you can use velcro pads. Stick the soft part on the battery and hard part on the frame. This way the battery will not be able to slide out. Still use the strap to secure, of course. I do that on all my models.

Ahh ya i need to just do this.

I hadn't done that because of the amount of velcro it would take to do all my batteries/models properly but you're right, I need to just do this and add this extra security.

I was using some anti-slip silicone mat that is used for shelves to keep glasses from slipping, but that will be much more secure.



Thanks!

 

[cranialrectosis]

Remember that in a crash you may want the battery to let go. Don't lock it down so tightly that it smashes your copter in a crash.

 

[califrag]

Remember that in a crash you may want the battery to let go. Don't lock it down so tightly that it smashes your copter in a crash.

Alright I'll just put one of those small pre-cut square size (I think 1" square) that should be enough to keep it from slipping during normal flight but should let loose in case of crash. With the square of velcro toward the front and strap toward the middle the back end should stay in line.

BTW Can you post a link to that frame jhitesma ? It looks really nice!

 

[cranialrectosis]

I believe it is this one:
http://www.shop.multirotorminis.com/EMAX-250-Pro-Mini-Quad-Bundle-E250ProMiniQuadBundle.htm

 

[Cyberdactyl]

First impression is fairly positive. The plates make an interesting sound when hitting each other which seems to confirm that they're a hybrid G10 core with Carbon veneer as they don't sound like carbon or G10 but sound kind of like both at the same time

Yes, CF makes that distinctive hard and light metal 'ping'. G10 is an almost soft epoxy by comparison.

Looking forward to seeing how and if it breaks down to be an overall attractive package. It looks good. My initial thoughts is it might have a bit of a docile response spinning somewhat large 0630's on low amp ESCs and relatively small motors.

 

[Mustang7302]

I have been flying one of the two EMAX frames that MultiRotorMinis got in for testing several weeks back, and the combination of parts has made for an awesome flier. With the 6020 CF T type props I fly on my setup, it is pretty docile on power (40% hover) but still plenty of pep to have fun for acro. The the grace that it flies with however is just awesome; I haven't flown anything else in four weeks now.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

That's how I've been feeling about my mini. My hex and tri feel like buses next to a Porche.

 

[jhitesma]

I believe it is this one:
http://www.shop.multirotorminis.com/EMAX-250-Pro-Mini-Quad-Bundle-E250ProMiniQuadBundle.htm

Yep, that's the one. Though my setup included a funfly Naze instead of the acro so I can incorporate GPS into the build. Other than that I think the kit I was sent is identical to the ones listed.

Yes, CF makes that distinctive hard and light metal 'ping'. G10 is an almost soft epoxy by comparison.

Looking forward to seeing how and if it breaks down to be an overall attractive package. It looks good. My initial thoughts is it might have a bit of a docile response spinning somewhat large 0630's on low amp ESCs and relatively small motors.

Yeah CF scares me when it hits the ground...sounds almost like glass G10 has a softer but still kind of scary sound. This is a really interesting mix of the two sounds. I'm in no hurry to crash on pavement with it but it will be interesting to see how it sounds when I do

For the price I don't think I could put together a better package than this setup. I don't expect it to be a full on screamer...but since I'm still really new to FPV (heck I'm new to quads in general, but I've only done 2-3 "Successful" FPV flights and another 4-5 not so successful FPV flights so far) I'm not looking for all out performance right now. And the arms are drilled for both 18mm and 24mm motors so it's an option to step up to bigger badder motors later if I want. There's also more space than I expected between the two lower plates. I didn't realize there was a 5mm spacer on top of the 4mm arms so there's almost 10mm of space in there which has me seriously debating whether to mount my ESC's on the arms or between the plates. I was planning on putting them on the arms but now I'm thinking about putting them between the plates....

But if I keep posting here I'll never get my thread started so I need to stop speculating and rambling and go get on that!

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Never used 0630 gemfans. I would imagine they are a notch stiffer than the ones I was using that made the loud worpy sound, but they may still flatten a bit at higher rpms. Curious if they do.

If you get the chance after test flying it, you might give the HQ 0630s a try. They are nice. So far, my favorite is the HQ 0645s. A noticeable jump in thrust for what seems like should be minimal for an increase in 0.15" pitch, at least on my larger 2600KVs. However, I do notice they have a slightly wider chord of ~2mm in the middle of the blade, so that's probably why they are so much stronger in lift. Not sure though if it would be a good idea to put 0645 on that EMAX motor. I doubt very much I'll risk 0645s on those new mini Dragonflys I should get in a day or so. Although, I saw I put my home zip code and my work street address on my order, so it may be a few extra days.

 

[jhitesma]

Yeah, I have a good number of HQ 0630's on hand for my Twitchity and will probably be using them. But with 2 sets of gemfans I may as well give them a try. They're no where near as nice as the HQ's but are nicer than the 5" GF's which are so thin you can practically see through them.

I'm not sure the EMAX motors would do well on 0645's...I think that would be pushing it. They seem to be built more for light weight and precision than the DYS which have more meat to them. And even the DYS get hotter than I feel safe on 0645's - even if I cut the 0645's down to 5". I still have some cut down HQ 0654's but only one color so I won't use them LOS...but since I will be flying this one mostly FPV I wouldn't mind using them on here. Even so I'm a bit nervous about the EMAX motor's ability to deal with them and won't be in a big rush to try them out.

I also have some HQ 0530's that I may try, but only if necessary. This frame is designed to accommodate 6" props so I plan on flying it with 6" props. But when I run out of 6" props the 5" will most likely find their way on there

 

[Cyberdactyl]

And of course flexible props are always a safe bet when flying a new MR or new components.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

The GF 6x3 has a tendency to oscillate and make a humming noise when pushed like the sound your 6x3 props make Cyber.

The HQ 5030 prop seems to generate less thrust than the GF5030 (if that's even possible!) in the testswe've done.

The HQ 6x4.5 is a direct copy of the FC 6x4.5 but just with better molding and HQ's own design hub and a slightly larger radius on the prop/hub joint to prevent cracks there. After HQprop re-molded the prop they measured it and the FC version and found FC stuffed up and the pitch is closer to 5.5" pitch. That's why it performs so well.

 

[califrag]

I've been having a lot of fun with this hex and I've done right and made the jump into purchasing a legitimate blackout mini-h.

I'm going to be transplanting the naze to the BOmH and plan to move everything else into a Twitchity mini hex frame once he has them available in CF with the PDB.

I moved the bottom camera plate up on top now and have the mobius mounted on it with the vibration dampening and it has made a huge difference.

I had my first decent crash with this frame and ended up in a tree.



This was right after a dive from about 100ft up and trying to pull out from under another tree. I'm working on getting a video together of some of the flying from the past few days, I've got a lot of footage to comb through.

Only broke one (front) prop and damaged the other (front) one.



You can also see the little stubby landing gear I attached under the frame made from a couple nylon hex standoffs and some 'screw cap protectors' from home depot. They work pretty well, give way during a (really) hard landing to help absorb some of the force and are cheap to replace if they do break.

These GF5030 props are pretty awful though, I have some of the carbon fiber ones coming so gonna see how those perform with this rig before disassembling.

 

[califrag]

Well this is not the crash from the previous post, but probably even better.

Here's the video from my first ever attempts at barrel rolls, front flips and back flips.

I lasted longer than I expected to!

I'll take some better pics of the damaged arm, it appears to be G10 sandwiched between two (really thin) layers of CF.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

Are you flying in Rate or Horizon mode?

 

[califrag]

Heh... horizon mode. That's the mode I should be in if I want to do flips (at full stick) but also still have self-level (when not flying aggressive), right ?