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Lesson learned in frustration

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#61
I
Was involved in a couple clubs in Colorado but when the leadership changed so did attitudes. You had to but their recommended planes and they HAD to look perfect!! No sport planes or scratch builds. ONLY scale planes. If it didn't look like the real thing you couldn't fly. Being a snob in this hobby is no way to grow the fun!
That makes NO sense to me that the clubs are that snobby. I get that they might suggest to you a good beginner plane if you've never flown before (I personally like the Apprentice and the Timber for beginner flight - just don't use the flaps on the Timber when you're first learning!) to get you a good idea, but to tell you that you HAVE to fly scale, and it MUST be pristine? How many of those guys actually FLY, then?!?

I get that some places may not allow gassers due to noise restrictions, or have a restriction on what times of day they can fly (our field doesn't allow gas planes to fly until a certain time of day due to neighbors that complain about someone running a weedwhacker too early in the morning), or not allowing things like turbines (our field doesn't allow turbines due to fire hazards, and for good reason - we've got a lot of dry grass and brush around that if a fire broke out, it'd grow pretty quickly out of control). Things like that, I can understand having limitations. It's not to be jerks, it's to be nice to the flying environment and neighbors around you.

I had a club that I wanted to join because their flying field was much closer to me than my current club. But, the owner of the land where that club flies does not allow anyone to fly rotary wing aircraft - no quads, no helicopters, no autogyros. Apparently, he thought they were spy devices, no matter how much education the club tried to give him. Arguing just got him more upset, and at risk from the club to not have a flying site anymore, they opted to bend.

I know of other sites around San Diego that only allow electric planes to fly, due to noise restrictions, and at least 2 different sites that ONLY allow gliders (one being the Torrey Pines Glider Port; you can actually fly an RC glider right next to a full size, 1:1 scale glider, which is really cool!) due to local government restrictions for those areas. Sometimes, you just need to play by the rules, as it's less headache for everyone.
 
#62
I didn't get it either. They got real uptight with me when I tried to make a case to let me fly my none scale a duraplane trainer. All said and done I cancelled my membership and the check I'd written for their fees 3 days before the new leadership. Tried to sue me for it. I went to their sister club and had to be scale too. I just went into the mountains to a nice meadow and flew it anyway.
 

JennyC6

Active member
#64
If it's radio controlled I'll want it. I own cars, a coaxial heli, a 24in boat that does 78mph, a new FT Mini Scout, and have owned motorcycles, tanks, and rockets. There is room for all with an open mind and basic common sense.
The only reason I don't have any boats is because I don't have anywhere to sail them! I'd dearly love to have a nitro outboard, a live steam cargo ship(Eyes on that Dumas great lakes freighter!), all manner of amphibious stuff. As it is I do nitro, electric cars, nitro aircraft.

RC is awesome no matter how you look at it. And if I were to open up a flying field it'd...well, be more than just a field. It'd have somewhere for crawlers, for bashers, for racers and for sailors. I'd even have an area for the 1/14 truckers and 1/14 machine operators to have some fun!


T
I'll admit that we do have, just like your club, some "sour apples". I tend to refer to them as the old guard - they're the stodgy types that think we all should be flying gassers, no electrics, and the young kids coming in with their drones? GIT OFFA MY LAWN! The good news is that not everyone is like that; we're actually coming along fairly well within this last year of building up club membership.
Yeah those guys are a problem. Way I see it, the entire goal of model aviation is grin factor. If that comes from building a hyper realistic 33% scale P-47d that has a Moki 400 in the nose, then so be it. If that comes from haphazardly duct taping some drone motors to a foamboard flying wing and laughing your arse off at the end result, then so be it.

As long as it isn't putting my safety or my property at risk I genuinely do not care what anyone else has at the flight line. And I expect that in return. Part of why I have little interest in going to a traditional club to fly is because I don't want to have a chance encounter with the type of guy that sneers at my foamboard flying wing with a pair of 1/2a engines hanging off the back.



Some of the old guys feel that if a kid can't afford to pay for the AMA, plus a plane, plus the $200 annual fee, they don't belong there, and that's just not right, in my mind.
Definitely not right. But that club fee is pretty nuts. I couldn't afford that if I tried. That's half again the cost of my NexSTAR, almost half again the cost of my FT Spear paid out every year for something that I may not use very often. I'm all for programs that seek to reduce the impact of club dues and AMA memberships...honestly, if the club's charging 200 a year it should include AMA fees in that charge...and all for the snobs who say things like 'well if they can't afford a plane, field gear, club dues, AMA, they don't deserve to fly'.



I understand your willingness to go fly out at your own "field", so to speak; there's a field down by my dad, where we have people flying planes and quads on a regular basis. The city has ok'd the area for recreational flight, but, honestly? I don't like flying there. There's no structure, there's no safety in case someone crashes and sets fire to the dry brush, and some of the guys have no respect whatsoever for cars in the parking lot - they think that they can just land there because it's paved and the dirt area is not. I think there's benefits to flying both with and without a club, but I think, overall, no matter what, people need some sort of structure for safety. If you can't follow the safety rules, or don't know them, you shouldn't be flying - ANYWHERE. A lot of the older guys in our club have seen accidents, people get cut up by props, etc., and tend to think of anyone younger than them as, well, "dumb and inexperienced", and don't want to mix with that, so it's easier to chase them off than let them fly. THAT, I think, is a travesty, but so be it.

Dumb people ruin everything, though. That's why cars have gotten so boring and samey over the years, why you can't buy lawn darts anymore, why a brand new power tool box contains more warning labels than actual instructions. You'd think it'd be common sense. Even a weak little Park 250 motor, or in my case a Cox 0.049, will wreck your fingers pretty bad if you stick 'em in the prop. Something with some actual poke...my 46AX, any BLDC that can swing a >9" prop...can easily slice a fingertip completely off, cut straight to the bone. And the really big/potent stuff will remove bone as well. Lipo batteries are quite safe as long as you don't poke them with a stick, but a lot of people do poke them with a stick. Fuels for ICE aircraft are flammable. Damaged props can fly apart, electric-only props will fatigue and fail on an engine, It goes on and on, and that's just for the flight line.

What grinds my gears about safety the most, however...I'm pretty indifferent to what other people do if they're the only ones at risk...is when they fly recklessly above people unrelated to the field. I don't mind too much if they're just cruising at high altitude, but when they start firewalling it and buzzing people, or doing risky aerobatics overhead....blah. There's a good reason we don't fly over the flight line/pits!


I'm fairly lucky. I live so far out in the sticks that I don't have to worry about any of that. There's a totally empty hay field right across the street from my house I can fly over, where if the worst case scenario happens I just plonk some foamboard into the dirt. There aren't any houses to fly over, there aren't any pedestrians or other cars to crash into, just an empty hay field. And that's the only reason I'm comfortable flying 'off-field', as it were. If I were in a suburb or, god forbid, an urban place, I wouldn't fly anything so large it couldn't fit in my living room unless it was at a suitable location.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#65
Definitely not right. But that club fee is pretty nuts. I couldn't afford that if I tried. That's half again the cost of my NexSTAR, almost half again the cost of my FT Spear paid out every year for something that I may not use very often. I'm all for programs that seek to reduce the impact of club dues and AMA memberships...honestly, if the club's charging 200 a year it should include AMA fees in that charge...and all for the snobs who say things like 'well if they can't afford a plane, field gear, club dues, AMA, they don't deserve to fly'.
Honestly, there's a couple of reasons why we're charging the rate that we do. This past year we had to repair and reseal our runway, plus grade the road going in to our flying field (rains pretty much destroyed it, putting huge ruts that several people got stuck in and nearly broke an axle on their passenger cars), and repair our shade covering for the pit areas. In addition, there was a worry that we were going to be losing our flying field and have to reestablish a new flying field elsewhere, so they wanted funds in reserve to build a new runway, shade coverings, and move our current containers for solar power and porta potties to the new field, should that happen.

I should also point out that the fee of $200 is what anyone 19-65 pays. Anyone under 19 is $20 fee, anyone 65 and older is $75. It's really not as bad as it sounds, especially when you can work to get the costs reduced by volunteering to cut grass/pull weeds, community volunteer work with Scouts/Civil Air Patrol/STEM clubs or classes, etc. I got $125 knocked off of my membership last year because I went out and worked 2 different Maker Faires within the county, building chuck gliders for kids, getting the RC clubs in the county known (Personally, I didn't care if they were coming to my club or going to another club - we were just trying to get people interested in flight, and according to my club's president, we saw a huge influx of interested people at our field after I did both Maker Faires. Apparently, there's a large interest, but nobody knows WHERE to go to get flying, at least in San Diego County!)

The good thing is that it kind of shuts up the grumps once they see the kids there. Everyone else loves flying with the kids, loves seeing their faces smile as they get their planes off the ground, or are going through their first flights with instructors...
 
#66
I don't mind clubs at all, especially the ones well taken care of which yours seems to do. The only thing I've had against any of them are the snobby types that tell you that they have to be ONLY scale, only gassers, or only perfect looking planes. I've seen some real junk looking planes fly better than pristine planes. Other than that if I had to join a club I would. However, I have 1500 acres of land I can use. Well away from our tiny airports.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#67
I don't mind clubs at all, especially the ones well taken care of which yours seems to do. The only thing I've had against any of them are the snobby types that tell you that they have to be ONLY scale, only gassers, or only perfect looking planes. I've seen some real junk looking planes fly better than pristine planes. Other than that if I had to join a club I would. However, I have 1500 acres of land I can use. Well away from our tiny airports.
If I understand what's coming with the new FAA regulations on UAVs, you wouldn't need to join a full on club, per se, but you'd need to be either an AMA member or Part 107 certified to fly, even on your own land. Are you going to get busted for flying on your own 1500 acres? Most likely, no, not if you're flying safely, you're flying out of commercial airspace, and you're not trying to go for altitude and/or distance records, i.e., not attracting unwanted attention to yourself. In other words? Flying smart. :)
 
#69
If I understand what's coming with the new FAA regulations on UAVs, you wouldn't need to join a full on club, per se, but you'd need to be either an AMA member or Part 107 certified to fly, even on your own land. Are you going to get busted for flying on your own 1500 acres? Most likely, no, not if you're flying safely, you're flying out of commercial airspace, and you're not trying to go for altitude and/or distance records, i.e., not attracting unwanted attention to yourself. In other words? Flying smart. :)
Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
 
#70
Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
My renters insurance also has a rider on it for rc airplanes.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#71
I think it’s people’s duty to ignore these “laws” that do nothing useful, provided you are flying safely and with consideration for other people. They are ridiculous.
That's a REALLY slippery slope, especially when it comes to our hobby. There are already some dumb bunnies out there that have given those of us smart, safe flying people black eyes with the way they fly, and so the general public thinks that all of us are like that, even though we aren't. Great example is the guy who decided last January to try and fly his DJI drone 2.5 mi. off the coast of Virginia, and collided with a Blackhawk helicopter, causing $50k worth of damage. He wasn't an AMA member, so he fell under the part 107 flight rulings. Then there was the drone pilot who was flying at 3500 feet in Newark, less than a month ago, that grounded flights. I may not like the laws, but I'll follow them and protest in the proper channels and methods to legislators rather than disobey as a form of protest.

Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
As for 107, yes and no. It DOES apply to weight, but that is the same weight whether you are flying a plane, a drone, etc. anything 1/2 lb and under 55 lbs AND without a membership in a Community Based Organization (of which the AMA is the only one currently recognized), then you are subject to the Part 107 rules. If you are a member of a Community Based Organization (AMA), then you fall under part 336 instead.

What the differences really mean when it comes to law is a little different; my interpretation is that they're more likely to throw the book at you for being a part 107 and violating the rules than a part 336 violation...But I could be wrong. At either rate, I'm not taking chances.