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Lesson learned in frustration

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#61
I
Was involved in a couple clubs in Colorado but when the leadership changed so did attitudes. You had to but their recommended planes and they HAD to look perfect!! No sport planes or scratch builds. ONLY scale planes. If it didn't look like the real thing you couldn't fly. Being a snob in this hobby is no way to grow the fun!
That makes NO sense to me that the clubs are that snobby. I get that they might suggest to you a good beginner plane if you've never flown before (I personally like the Apprentice and the Timber for beginner flight - just don't use the flaps on the Timber when you're first learning!) to get you a good idea, but to tell you that you HAVE to fly scale, and it MUST be pristine? How many of those guys actually FLY, then?!?

I get that some places may not allow gassers due to noise restrictions, or have a restriction on what times of day they can fly (our field doesn't allow gas planes to fly until a certain time of day due to neighbors that complain about someone running a weedwhacker too early in the morning), or not allowing things like turbines (our field doesn't allow turbines due to fire hazards, and for good reason - we've got a lot of dry grass and brush around that if a fire broke out, it'd grow pretty quickly out of control). Things like that, I can understand having limitations. It's not to be jerks, it's to be nice to the flying environment and neighbors around you.

I had a club that I wanted to join because their flying field was much closer to me than my current club. But, the owner of the land where that club flies does not allow anyone to fly rotary wing aircraft - no quads, no helicopters, no autogyros. Apparently, he thought they were spy devices, no matter how much education the club tried to give him. Arguing just got him more upset, and at risk from the club to not have a flying site anymore, they opted to bend.

I know of other sites around San Diego that only allow electric planes to fly, due to noise restrictions, and at least 2 different sites that ONLY allow gliders (one being the Torrey Pines Glider Port; you can actually fly an RC glider right next to a full size, 1:1 scale glider, which is really cool!) due to local government restrictions for those areas. Sometimes, you just need to play by the rules, as it's less headache for everyone.
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#62
I didn't get it either. They got real uptight with me when I tried to make a case to let me fly my none scale a duraplane trainer. All said and done I cancelled my membership and the check I'd written for their fees 3 days before the new leadership. Tried to sue me for it. I went to their sister club and had to be scale too. I just went into the mountains to a nice meadow and flew it anyway.
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#64
If it's radio controlled I'll want it. I own cars, a coaxial heli, a 24in boat that does 78mph, a new FT Mini Scout, and have owned motorcycles, tanks, and rockets. There is room for all with an open mind and basic common sense.
The only reason I don't have any boats is because I don't have anywhere to sail them! I'd dearly love to have a nitro outboard, a live steam cargo ship(Eyes on that Dumas great lakes freighter!), all manner of amphibious stuff. As it is I do nitro, electric cars, nitro aircraft.

RC is awesome no matter how you look at it. And if I were to open up a flying field it'd...well, be more than just a field. It'd have somewhere for crawlers, for bashers, for racers and for sailors. I'd even have an area for the 1/14 truckers and 1/14 machine operators to have some fun!


T
I'll admit that we do have, just like your club, some "sour apples". I tend to refer to them as the old guard - they're the stodgy types that think we all should be flying gassers, no electrics, and the young kids coming in with their drones? GIT OFFA MY LAWN! The good news is that not everyone is like that; we're actually coming along fairly well within this last year of building up club membership.
Yeah those guys are a problem. Way I see it, the entire goal of model aviation is grin factor. If that comes from building a hyper realistic 33% scale P-47d that has a Moki 400 in the nose, then so be it. If that comes from haphazardly duct taping some drone motors to a foamboard flying wing and laughing your arse off at the end result, then so be it.

As long as it isn't putting my safety or my property at risk I genuinely do not care what anyone else has at the flight line. And I expect that in return. Part of why I have little interest in going to a traditional club to fly is because I don't want to have a chance encounter with the type of guy that sneers at my foamboard flying wing with a pair of 1/2a engines hanging off the back.



Some of the old guys feel that if a kid can't afford to pay for the AMA, plus a plane, plus the $200 annual fee, they don't belong there, and that's just not right, in my mind.
Definitely not right. But that club fee is pretty nuts. I couldn't afford that if I tried. That's half again the cost of my NexSTAR, almost half again the cost of my FT Spear paid out every year for something that I may not use very often. I'm all for programs that seek to reduce the impact of club dues and AMA memberships...honestly, if the club's charging 200 a year it should include AMA fees in that charge...and all for the snobs who say things like 'well if they can't afford a plane, field gear, club dues, AMA, they don't deserve to fly'.



I understand your willingness to go fly out at your own "field", so to speak; there's a field down by my dad, where we have people flying planes and quads on a regular basis. The city has ok'd the area for recreational flight, but, honestly? I don't like flying there. There's no structure, there's no safety in case someone crashes and sets fire to the dry brush, and some of the guys have no respect whatsoever for cars in the parking lot - they think that they can just land there because it's paved and the dirt area is not. I think there's benefits to flying both with and without a club, but I think, overall, no matter what, people need some sort of structure for safety. If you can't follow the safety rules, or don't know them, you shouldn't be flying - ANYWHERE. A lot of the older guys in our club have seen accidents, people get cut up by props, etc., and tend to think of anyone younger than them as, well, "dumb and inexperienced", and don't want to mix with that, so it's easier to chase them off than let them fly. THAT, I think, is a travesty, but so be it.

Dumb people ruin everything, though. That's why cars have gotten so boring and samey over the years, why you can't buy lawn darts anymore, why a brand new power tool box contains more warning labels than actual instructions. You'd think it'd be common sense. Even a weak little Park 250 motor, or in my case a Cox 0.049, will wreck your fingers pretty bad if you stick 'em in the prop. Something with some actual poke...my 46AX, any BLDC that can swing a >9" prop...can easily slice a fingertip completely off, cut straight to the bone. And the really big/potent stuff will remove bone as well. Lipo batteries are quite safe as long as you don't poke them with a stick, but a lot of people do poke them with a stick. Fuels for ICE aircraft are flammable. Damaged props can fly apart, electric-only props will fatigue and fail on an engine, It goes on and on, and that's just for the flight line.

What grinds my gears about safety the most, however...I'm pretty indifferent to what other people do if they're the only ones at risk...is when they fly recklessly above people unrelated to the field. I don't mind too much if they're just cruising at high altitude, but when they start firewalling it and buzzing people, or doing risky aerobatics overhead....blah. There's a good reason we don't fly over the flight line/pits!


I'm fairly lucky. I live so far out in the sticks that I don't have to worry about any of that. There's a totally empty hay field right across the street from my house I can fly over, where if the worst case scenario happens I just plonk some foamboard into the dirt. There aren't any houses to fly over, there aren't any pedestrians or other cars to crash into, just an empty hay field. And that's the only reason I'm comfortable flying 'off-field', as it were. If I were in a suburb or, god forbid, an urban place, I wouldn't fly anything so large it couldn't fit in my living room unless it was at a suitable location.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#65
Definitely not right. But that club fee is pretty nuts. I couldn't afford that if I tried. That's half again the cost of my NexSTAR, almost half again the cost of my FT Spear paid out every year for something that I may not use very often. I'm all for programs that seek to reduce the impact of club dues and AMA memberships...honestly, if the club's charging 200 a year it should include AMA fees in that charge...and all for the snobs who say things like 'well if they can't afford a plane, field gear, club dues, AMA, they don't deserve to fly'.
Honestly, there's a couple of reasons why we're charging the rate that we do. This past year we had to repair and reseal our runway, plus grade the road going in to our flying field (rains pretty much destroyed it, putting huge ruts that several people got stuck in and nearly broke an axle on their passenger cars), and repair our shade covering for the pit areas. In addition, there was a worry that we were going to be losing our flying field and have to reestablish a new flying field elsewhere, so they wanted funds in reserve to build a new runway, shade coverings, and move our current containers for solar power and porta potties to the new field, should that happen.

I should also point out that the fee of $200 is what anyone 19-65 pays. Anyone under 19 is $20 fee, anyone 65 and older is $75. It's really not as bad as it sounds, especially when you can work to get the costs reduced by volunteering to cut grass/pull weeds, community volunteer work with Scouts/Civil Air Patrol/STEM clubs or classes, etc. I got $125 knocked off of my membership last year because I went out and worked 2 different Maker Faires within the county, building chuck gliders for kids, getting the RC clubs in the county known (Personally, I didn't care if they were coming to my club or going to another club - we were just trying to get people interested in flight, and according to my club's president, we saw a huge influx of interested people at our field after I did both Maker Faires. Apparently, there's a large interest, but nobody knows WHERE to go to get flying, at least in San Diego County!)

The good thing is that it kind of shuts up the grumps once they see the kids there. Everyone else loves flying with the kids, loves seeing their faces smile as they get their planes off the ground, or are going through their first flights with instructors...
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#66
I don't mind clubs at all, especially the ones well taken care of which yours seems to do. The only thing I've had against any of them are the snobby types that tell you that they have to be ONLY scale, only gassers, or only perfect looking planes. I've seen some real junk looking planes fly better than pristine planes. Other than that if I had to join a club I would. However, I have 1500 acres of land I can use. Well away from our tiny airports.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#67
I don't mind clubs at all, especially the ones well taken care of which yours seems to do. The only thing I've had against any of them are the snobby types that tell you that they have to be ONLY scale, only gassers, or only perfect looking planes. I've seen some real junk looking planes fly better than pristine planes. Other than that if I had to join a club I would. However, I have 1500 acres of land I can use. Well away from our tiny airports.
If I understand what's coming with the new FAA regulations on UAVs, you wouldn't need to join a full on club, per se, but you'd need to be either an AMA member or Part 107 certified to fly, even on your own land. Are you going to get busted for flying on your own 1500 acres? Most likely, no, not if you're flying safely, you're flying out of commercial airspace, and you're not trying to go for altitude and/or distance records, i.e., not attracting unwanted attention to yourself. In other words? Flying smart. :)
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#69
If I understand what's coming with the new FAA regulations on UAVs, you wouldn't need to join a full on club, per se, but you'd need to be either an AMA member or Part 107 certified to fly, even on your own land. Are you going to get busted for flying on your own 1500 acres? Most likely, no, not if you're flying safely, you're flying out of commercial airspace, and you're not trying to go for altitude and/or distance records, i.e., not attracting unwanted attention to yourself. In other words? Flying smart. :)
Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#70
Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
My renters insurance also has a rider on it for rc airplanes.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#71
I think it’s people’s duty to ignore these “laws” that do nothing useful, provided you are flying safely and with consideration for other people. They are ridiculous.
That's a REALLY slippery slope, especially when it comes to our hobby. There are already some dumb bunnies out there that have given those of us smart, safe flying people black eyes with the way they fly, and so the general public thinks that all of us are like that, even though we aren't. Great example is the guy who decided last January to try and fly his DJI drone 2.5 mi. off the coast of Virginia, and collided with a Blackhawk helicopter, causing $50k worth of damage. He wasn't an AMA member, so he fell under the part 107 flight rulings. Then there was the drone pilot who was flying at 3500 feet in Newark, less than a month ago, that grounded flights. I may not like the laws, but I'll follow them and protest in the proper channels and methods to legislators rather than disobey as a form of protest.

Exactly!! From what I've heard 107 only applied to certain amounts of weight. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I've never flown a drone and I really never felt the need of cameras on it. I also have 32hrs of flight time with my brother in his Aeronca Champ. I need work on take off and landing but I should get a light sport license soon. When I've flown rc airplanes before I've always kept them in close and only 1 mistake high. Another reason for my user name FastCrash45,😆
As for 107, yes and no. It DOES apply to weight, but that is the same weight whether you are flying a plane, a drone, etc. anything 1/2 lb and under 55 lbs AND without a membership in a Community Based Organization (of which the AMA is the only one currently recognized), then you are subject to the Part 107 rules. If you are a member of a Community Based Organization (AMA), then you fall under part 336 instead.

What the differences really mean when it comes to law is a little different; my interpretation is that they're more likely to throw the book at you for being a part 107 and violating the rules than a part 336 violation...But I could be wrong. At either rate, I'm not taking chances.
 
#72
http://www.amaflightschool.org/video/rc-flight-training-ragland-technique[/QUOTE]
I really hate to complain about clubs and RC fields, because they're pretty much a vital necessity here in Southern California, where the stigma of RC aircraft of any kind is, "You're using it to spy on me!". Without the clubs and the designated fields allowing us to fly, it's hard to enjoy this hobby.

That said, I experienced a frustrating lesson in resistance to change from the "old guys" in a club the other night.

I attended a new club meeting where there was talk of new members joining up, and the club was going to offer to pay the AMA membership for the first year and offer a discounted rate for that first year, to get people in.

Why?

Because the average age of the club members, just looking around the room, was 65+. There are no kids getting involved with it, at least with that club.

So they took a vote for allowing this "new member pilot program" to go forward (the proposal was $150, which was AMA membership for a year, at $75, and club membership, which is discounted down from $200 to $75), and majority was for the new member program. But there was a surprising number of people who were against it, and when asked why, the responses ranged from, "We come out to get away from our kids," to the one that frustrated me the most, "If they can afford the plane and the transmitter and everything that goes with it, they can afford the membership."

I think that attitude is a BIG reason why we have so many pilots who are thumbing their noses at AMA rules and not wanting to join up in clubs. Parents invest in $700-$800 in a plane, transmitter, batteries, etc. to get their kid flying for the first time. For a lot of people, that's a fair chunk of change. Then you're told that you need to fork over another $75 to the AMA to be able to fly without a part 107 license, plus club membership fees to fly at a specific field. Wouldn't you want to know that ahead of time, say, as you're purchasing the quadcopter/Cessna/sailplane/warbird that you're wanting to help your kid learn to fly?

Plus, if a club is willing to help you get set up, explain the AMA membership benefits (and requirements to fly at their field), AND give you a discount for membership, along with the club perks (4th of July and Labor Day BBQs at the field, a section for fixed wing pilots and a separate field area for heli pilots, as well as a separate drone racing area, camping nights with night fly events, free flight training from club instructors, etc.), wouldn't that go a long way in making you feel more welcome than saying, "Well, you had money to buy a plane...Fork over more now to join us, because if you can afford the plane, you can afford to join the club."

I guess maybe I'm frustrated, and maybe it's just the "old guard" way of thinking, and maybe they need to take a back seat so that new members can feel welcome - a lot of maybes.

Anyone else experience this? And what have you done to change the minds of...well..."the old way" of thinking?
This is the situation most everywhere. Where the main problem lies is the club flight instructors. Basically, they control the clubs, after all,
flight instruction is something that no one else has any desire to do. If anyone dares to say anything against the club instructor, the instructor will challenge that person to take over his job. Not another peep from anyone.

I'm 71 and have been offering anyone and everyone the opportunity to fly my LT-40 trainer, just to get a satisfying RC flying experience.
I have every first time beginner takeoff, fly and land with minimal assistance from me. Funny thing, some old hands don't like what I'm doing at all.
The training system I use, was developed 4 decades ago. What I was doing was teaching using a buddy-box, but most of my students would bang the sticks around and no matter how much I encouraged them to stop, it was difficult to properly convey that to them

So, I did was, with the cord attached and my holding the switch, I reached over and had them put their thumb on top of the stick and put my thumb and forefinger underneath their thumb on the aileron/elevator lever. That way they could feel precisely how the stick was supposed to move. Then I realized that I didn't have to use the cord anymore. No, I was NOT HUGGING them. I simply stand on his right side and reach over once and a while to demonstrate how to make a turn and assist him in making takeoffs and landings.

http://www.amaflightschool.org/video/rc-flight-training-ragland-technique

This is his first 5 minutes in control. Notice how windy it is. The same for the second youth. Notice how later on in video, I had him look at the transmitter and not the plane. Also, notice how I have my hands in my pockets. This is how great this teaching method works.
I tried in vain to teach others in my club how to do this, but they showed no interest at all in learning something that would make teaching so much quicker, safer and more fun. I firmly believe that I can teach most any experienced flier how to do this in a couple of hours, or less.

AMA finally came around and added this video on their website, but like I said, club members control the AMA and the instructors control the clubs. I ran a small hobby shop several years ago and when customers came in I would suggest that they fly my trainer. The standard reply was, "No, I know I will crash". So I had them go out to our local field which was 2 miles away and had them fly my trainer. All of a sudden, they became very interested. I explained that if they bought a trainer from me, I would guarantee I would teach them at their convenience until I had them solo. That is how I kept my shop open for 10 years. Since I was the only one doing this, running the shop and going out to teach, I finally decided to close up shop and only promote the hobby by giving flying experience even though some said they couldn't afford the hobby. Didn't matter to me as someday when they could, they would have the flying experience. Imagine if every club had someone doing what I've been doing for over 4 decades.

Let me know what you think. It seems that only the veteran flier has a problem or tries to find a problem with my promotion system.
 
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sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#73
http://www.amaflightschool.org/video/rc-flight-training-ragland-technique


This is the situation most everywhere. Where the main problem lies is the club flight instructors. Basically, they control the clubs, after all,
flight instruction is something that no one else has any desire to do. If anyone dares to say anything against the club instructor, the instructor will challenge that person to take over his job. Not another peep from anyone.

I'm 71 and have been offering anyone and everyone the opportunity to fly my LT-40 trainer, just to get a satisfying RC flying experience.
I have every first time beginner takeoff, fly and land with minimal assistance from me. Funny thing, some old hands don't like what I'm doing at all.
The training system I use, was developed 4 decades ago. What I was doing was teaching using a buddy-box, but most of my students would bang the sticks around and no matter how much I encouraged them to stop, it was difficult to properly convey that to them

So, I did was, with the cord attached and my holding the switch, I reached over and had them put their thumb on top of the stick and put my thumb and forefinger underneath their thumb on the aileron/elevator lever. That way they could feel precisely how the stick was supposed to move. Then I realized that I didn't have to use the cord anymore. No, I was NOT HUGGING them. I simply stand on his right side and reach over once and a while to demonstrate how to make a turn and assist him in making takeoffs and landings.

http://www.amaflightschool.org/video/rc-flight-training-ragland-technique

This is his first 5 minutes in control. Notice how windy it is. The same for the second youth. Notice how later on in video, I had him look at the transmitter and not the plane. Also, notice how I have my hands in my pockets. This is how great this teaching method works.
I tried in vain to teach others in my club how to do this, but they showed no interest at all in learning something that would make teaching so much quicker, safer and more fun. I firmly believe that I can teach most any experienced flier how to do this in a couple of hours, or less.

AMA finally came around and added this video on their website, but like I said, club members control the AMA and the instructors control the clubs. I ran a small hobby shop several years ago and when customers came in I would suggest that they fly my trainer. The standard reply was, "No, I know I will crash". So I had them go out to our local field which was 2 miles away and had them fly my trainer. All of a sudden, they became very interested. I explained that if they bought a trainer from me, I would guarantee I would teach them at their convenience until I had them solo. That is how I kept my shop open for 10 years. Since I was the only one doing this, running the shop and going out to teach, I finally decided to close up shop and only promote the hobby by giving flying experience even though some said they couldn't afford the hobby. Didn't matter to me as someday when they could, they would have the flying experience. Imagine if every club had someone doing what I've been doing for over 4 decades.

Let me know what you think. It seems that only the veteran flier has a problem or tries to find a problem with my promotion system.
Actually, our head flight instructor LOVES teaching ANYONE to fly fixed wing. We've had several that have come out over the past 2 years, and he, along with about 6-7 other pilots, have stood up and helped him teach people how to fly (via buddy boxing). The rest of the instructors all like teaching people to fly, but as with anything, there are...well, I guess different teaching styles and approaches that they take? When I was learning with them, they pretty much just left me to fly and only took over the sticks if something crazy happened. Other students, like my dad, they gave a lot more "ground school" education rather than actual stick time, and my dad really was there for actual flying - he was an aerospace engineer for 30+ years, had a good idea of basic flight, but ended up getting "ground school" at the flight line without actually flying.

I think my frustration with the situation is more of people who don't want new people coming in, and then complaining that the costs for the club membership is climbing due to things like annual maintenance, repair of the flying pavilion, resealing of the runway, etc. The club board of directors has said that if we can get more members, they'll lower the prices so that everyone can come out and enjoy flying, but these staid folk are stuck in their ways, I guess...:(
 
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Vimana89

Well-known member
#74
Think I mentioned this in another post, but I live in SoCal too, in the Mojave desert area. There is one flying field and club listed downtown, and it has been around a long time, and is an AMA club. I mentioned that although I have no experience with clubs, I tend to notice certain patterns in life, and was worried about all the stuff you guys have been discussing before I even read anyone's experiences here. It sounded like they had a ton of rules, some of which are probably pretty reasonable and necessary, but others that just complicate things and detract fun. I don't want to go to a place and feel I'm on some sort of "probation", being scrutinized, nitpicked apart, ETC. I also don't want to be micro-managed on every detail from how I stand to how I launch and how I land, etc. if I'm doing nothing dangerous or unreasonable. I definitely don't want to be told I can't fly my scratch builds and my own designs, or that I have to stick to a list of recommended models. A club that requires large wallets and small imaginations is not the club for me.

That being said, I may at least call up and ask some questions. I can just find a few other individual hobbyists with a good attitude and start a club. I'm sure I could find a park or abandoned stretch of desert that would be pretty good.
 
#75
In the 10 years of running my hobby shop, I had literally hundreds of customers come in with the same story. When they joined a club they were told they would receive flight training. All clubs only had one training day a week, some said they had no day set aside, but the instructors were only a phone call away. Problem was, too many times, those instructors were always too busy or didn't return the beginner's call.

I offered all who came in that I would train them. Many earned their solo wings on their first day of training, which was within 2-3 hours.
Because I had the hobby shop, I didn't charge them since it would help me sell a lot of equipment. Thing is, all my student/customers were so grateful, they insisted on paying me. Before they came in the shop, some said they had been waiting for years to earn their solo wings in their clubs, along with many crashes along the way, some crashes were the fault of their instructors. Of course instructors can't crash teaching, so they blame it on their students for not listening to the instructor. lol
I've offered to teach anyone my teaching method, but only managed to show one instructor how to use my method. It was only a 20 minute lesson, but he said he learned quite a bit in that time. He wanted to teach his daughter and found it was much easier using my method than the buddy/box.

I still have that offer to anyone who would like to be able to all but instantly teach to solo his or her students. You can read and learn quite a bit on the video. You can practice on a simulator, both teaching yourself how to use it and then practice teaching a beginner on the sim.

Imagine if all clubs had just one instructor able to use this method. One day, I spent several hours teaching youngsters from a church group.
Also many hours teaching cub scouts. Please read the information on my diy web site. In the near future, I will be teaching in the back of the new YMCA. The Y has 1300 members and a large picture window facing the 10 acre flying field. I think I'm going to be very busy. lol

This is a photo facing the new Y's flying field
 

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sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
#76
Think I mentioned this in another post, but I live in SoCal too, in the Mojave desert area. There is one flying field and club listed downtown, and it has been around a long time, and is an AMA club. I mentioned that although I have no experience with clubs, I tend to notice certain patterns in life, and was worried about all the stuff you guys have been discussing before I even read anyone's experiences here. It sounded like they had a ton of rules, some of which are probably pretty reasonable and necessary, but others that just complicate things and detract fun. I don't want to go to a place and feel I'm on some sort of "probation", being scrutinized, nitpicked apart, ETC. I also don't want to be micro-managed on every detail from how I stand to how I launch and how I land, etc. if I'm doing nothing dangerous or unreasonable. I definitely don't want to be told I can't fly my scratch builds and my own designs, or that I have to stick to a list of recommended models. A club that requires large wallets and small imaginations is not the club for me.

That being said, I may at least call up and ask some questions. I can just find a few other individual hobbyists with a good attitude and start a club. I'm sure I could find a park or abandoned stretch of desert that would be pretty good.
Completely understand that. In some respects, there are rules to keep things safe, like "If you're hand launching a plane, stand in a designated area to hand launch, and throw AWAY from the pilot's box", or "Don't fly over people in case your plane/quad/paramotor/flying boat/whatever falls out of the sky". Others might not be an AMA rule, like our club's rule of, "Do NOT start flying unless the box where the fire extinguishers are kept is unlocked," but make sense when you consider that we fly in an area prevalent with dry brush and we don't want to have our planes crash and cause a brush fire that quickly gets out of control because you couldn't get a fire extinguisher to it in time.

And there are other rules that are appropriate for newcomers, like, "We have to vet your flying before we let you fly without assistance, because we don't know how you fly and want to make sure you're not some crazy flier." We've had that happen at our field; we're right next to Interstate 15, and we had a guy who came out and decided he was going to fly his plane consistently over the freeway, even after we repeatedly told him not to, because he wanted to get aerial shots of the cars below. So we told him he had to leave.

That sort of stuff may not apply at all fields, but it makes sense if you think about it like a member of that club. And yes, some of the AMA rules are kind of ridiculous (my favorite is that if an FPV pilot is flying under goggles, they must have a spotter who is capable of taking over if the vehicle is going to crash; flying a racing drone at 50-60 mph, the reaction time needed for someone to be handed the transmitter and fly it out via line of sight is laughable at best). But for a club to receive AMA coverage for insurance, which many times is required by the landowners, there are some rules you have to follow, and play the game. And there's always the club that won't allow certain types of vehicles to be flown - one such club near me won't allow anything but fixed wings; no multirotors or helicopters at all. Another will ONLY allow electric powered flight, due to cutting down on the noise restrictions for the area. And perhaps the best known restriction to San Diego RC flyers, the Torrey Pines Glider Port, which restricts to NO powered flight of any kind, because of city ordinances (but it's pretty cool to be able to fly an RC glider next to someone paragliding, hang gliding, or even a full scale glider that's taking off from the glider port!). I get some of it for certain areas and local laws/ordinances.

Sorry for the long winded post, but ultimately, check out the club first and decide if it's something you want to be a member of. If not, find a location, find out who owns the location, and see about getting permission from the owner to fly there. The AMA actually has some info on their site about establishing a flying site and how to maintain it, even get funding for things like a runway, covered pit areas, or possibly even a charging station!

Hope this all helps. :)
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#77
Completely understand that. In some respects, there are rules to keep things safe, like "If you're hand launching a plane, stand in a designated area to hand launch, and throw AWAY from the pilot's box", or "Don't fly over people in case your plane/quad/paramotor/flying boat/whatever falls out of the sky". Others might not be an AMA rule, like our club's rule of, "Do NOT start flying unless the box where the fire extinguishers are kept is unlocked," but make sense when you consider that we fly in an area prevalent with dry brush and we don't want to have our planes crash and cause a brush fire that quickly gets out of control because you couldn't get a fire extinguisher to it in time.

And there are other rules that are appropriate for newcomers, like, "We have to vet your flying before we let you fly without assistance, because we don't know how you fly and want to make sure you're not some crazy flier." We've had that happen at our field; we're right next to Interstate 15, and we had a guy who came out and decided he was going to fly his plane consistently over the freeway, even after we repeatedly told him not to, because he wanted to get aerial shots of the cars below. So we told him he had to leave.

That sort of stuff may not apply at all fields, but it makes sense if you think about it like a member of that club. And yes, some of the AMA rules are kind of ridiculous (my favorite is that if an FPV pilot is flying under goggles, they must have a spotter who is capable of taking over if the vehicle is going to crash; flying a racing drone at 50-60 mph, the reaction time needed for someone to be handed the transmitter and fly it out via line of sight is laughable at best). But for a club to receive AMA coverage for insurance, which many times is required by the landowners, there are some rules you have to follow, and play the game. And there's always the club that won't allow certain types of vehicles to be flown - one such club near me won't allow anything but fixed wings; no multirotors or helicopters at all. Another will ONLY allow electric powered flight, due to cutting down on the noise restrictions for the area. And perhaps the best known restriction to San Diego RC flyers, the Torrey Pines Glider Port, which restricts to NO powered flight of any kind, because of city ordinances (but it's pretty cool to be able to fly an RC glider next to someone paragliding, hang gliding, or even a full scale glider that's taking off from the glider port!). I get some of it for certain areas and local laws/ordinances.

Sorry for the long winded post, but ultimately, check out the club first and decide if it's something you want to be a member of. If not, find a location, find out who owns the location, and see about getting permission from the owner to fly there. The AMA actually has some info on their site about establishing a flying site and how to maintain it, even get funding for things like a runway, covered pit areas, or possibly even a charging station!

Hope this all helps. :)
All very good info. I'm all for rules and regulations to keep things safe and practical. All the precautions you stated are perfectly reasonable sorts of rules. The stuff I'm talking about is arbitrary and elitist drivel. It would be cool to establish a field. My focus is mostly on park flyer sized foam models, but I enjoy quads too and would make room for multirotor in my club if I ran one, and reasonably sized helicopters. Bigger electric fixed wings might depend on the size of the area, like huge diameter multi EDF jets and stuff. I just probably wouldn't allow pulse jets, turbines, or powerful fuel and electric helicopters that can take off a head. I don't have the experience to monitor and regulate people flying that kind of stuff.For big electrics, if the field size allows, I'd be more comfortable with EDFs than big scale prop motors.
 
#78
Visited a local club a few weeks ago. Great experience, they are actively seeking out new members and was further approached at a local hobby store while admiring the planes there.

Best thing I saw at the club was a straight up 60 year old, POVing a quad through a little course setup there.
 

JTarmstr

Well-known member
#79
This is a bit off topic but do you have to join a club/AMA if you register with the FAA? I haven't been flying since the new rules came out and I have had a tough time figuring out the exact rules. My impression before was that with park flyers you just had to obey the AMA's guidelines and common sense, but that has changed? I dont want to be breaking the law but I also dont want to spend a bunch of money on memberships and registration if I dont have to.
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#80
This is a bit off topic but do you have to join a club/AMA if you register with the FAA? I haven't been flying since the new rules came out and I have had a tough time figuring out the exact rules. My impression before was that with park flyers you just had to obey the AMA's guidelines and common sense, but that has changed? I dont want to be breaking the law but I also dont want to spend a bunch of money on memberships and registration if I dont have to.

My impression is that they haven't yet finalized the rules and that we're more or less still operating on the old ones until such time as the tests and the new guidelines get pushed out.