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Looking for a slow, Park flyer FT build

Dgreco63

Multirotor Enthusiast
#1
Hi gang,
I've been flying multirotors and helis for a bit now and wanted to move into airplanes. I recently built an FT Sparrow and found it was not suited for a beginner. Just too fast and squirrelly for me. So I went onto build a FT Explorer. This plane flies great. And I managed to handle it pretty well with the 4 Channel wing (not so much with the 3 channel one. I'm used to using the rudder and ailerons to turn). But the field I fly at is VERY tight and there are trees on either side. So something like the FT Explorer needs a bit more room to turn and maneuver. The field is great for Helis and Multirotors. Not so much for planes.... It makes learning to fly a pretty hair raising experience.

I'm looking for a suggestion here. I'm sure that the myriad of FT plans must include at least ONE slow flyer. Something good for a trainer. I'd like to build one with the purpose of practicing outside, on a my club's rather small flying site. After building (2) foamies I feel like I can tackle something moderately difficult. Plus, I LOVE to customize my planes with either paint, or the use of colored packing tape.

I'd like something that flies nice and slow so I can practice flying just below treetop level. I've been told that the old GWS Tiger Moths (now out of production) would be a nice slow flier or maybe a GWS "DAS ugly stick"?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Dominic
 

earthsciteach

Moderator
Moderator
#2
Hey, Dgreco63. The FT Flyer fits your description of a slow airplane capable of flying in small spaces. I love this airplane as an introduction to rc flight for people. It is very easy to fly and is very forgiving. Also, keep an eye on the Fokker DR-1 and SE-5a that are being released today (11/21). They look more like "real" airplanes and are great slow fliers!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#3
If you want slow and simple, cheap and durable, then I recommend the original Tiny Trainer with a few minor changes.

I use a 2205C 1400kV on a 850 3S with a 8x4 SF prop. The wing is a slightly different wing to standard in that the span has been increased to approx 1400mm has a very large flat centre section, polyhedral tips with washout.

A simple undercarriage held on with packing tape completes the build.

With a slight headwind it can almost hover. When trimmed for a slight climb on full power it can take off in twice its own length and climb out without touching the controls, (except for the throttle of course).

It floats so planting it can take a bit of planning but with a nice springy undercarriage it can land short and heavy if required.

It flys so slow at reduced throttle that you can actually look away and when you look back the plane is still where you left it. Where I fly it is acknowledged as the slowest flier.

Caution! It can "Dutch-roll" with extreme rudder input and with my setup it can loop so tightly that I often catapult the battery from the nose leaving the plane to flutter to the ground like a large and a little heavy leaf.

If you are interested the wing details can be supplied.
(Here is a pic of it with the large wing)
Bob (Black)l 20161009-3_edited-1.jpg
 

Dgreco63

Multirotor Enthusiast
#4
Hey, Dgreco63. The FT Flyer fits your description of a slow airplane capable of flying in small spaces. I love this airplane as an introduction to rc flight for people. It is very easy to fly and is very forgiving. Also, keep an eye on the Fokker DR-1 and SE-5a that are being released today (11/21). They look more like "real" airplanes and are great slow fliers!
Thanks for the tip about the bi and triplanes. I was looking at them and was thinking that they might be the ticket.
 

Dgreco63

Multirotor Enthusiast
#5
If you want slow and simple, cheap and durable, then I recommend the original Tiny Trainer with a few minor changes.

I use a 2205C 1400kV on a 850 3S with a 8x4 SF prop. The wing is a slightly different wing to standard in that the span has been increased to approx 1400mm has a very large flat centre section, polyhedral tips with washout.

A simple undercarriage held on with packing tape completes the build.

With a slight headwind it can almost hover. When trimmed for a slight climb on full power it can take off in twice its own length and climb out without touching the controls, (except for the throttle of course).

It floats so planting it can take a bit of planning but with a nice springy undercarriage it can land short and heavy if required.

It flys so slow at reduced throttle that you can actually look away and when you look back the plane is still where you left it. Where I fly it is acknowledged as the slowest flier.


If you are interested the wing details can be supplied.
I think that's more the kind of flyer I want. Something super slow and "somewhat" easy to control. Any details you can forward would be greatly appreciated. This will probably end up being my "winter project".
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#6
I will did out the measurements and post them before the night is out!

This was drawn out full size if the PDF export function worked! View attachment TT Slow Wing.pdf

The build technique and the airfoil section are similar to the Sport wing, for the remainder of the plan just go to the build articles to download the standard plans.

The black line for the wingtips is the cut line and remove a small wedge of the material so that when the tip is folded up you get the dihedral angle you require. The tip section is sanded on the mating face and glued to the end of the centre section at the dihedral angle you require.

I normally set centre section flat and measure the lift to the first bend with a lift of 40 to 45 mm, Make measurement the same for all angles and the same on each end of the wing. The greater the angle, the greater the stability and the "Dutch Roll".

Just recommend a paddle pop stick glued to the leading and trailing edges of the centre of the wing to protect the wing from damage caused by the rubber bands.

HAPPY TIMES & Enjoy!
 
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#7
Build Plans

Hello Hai-Lee,
I have spoken with you before on the forum. I came across this thread and am very interested in the possibility of building this aircraft from foam board. How or where can I obtain the plans for this plane? It would be very beneficial to me since I am so new to this hobby. I must say the more I see the more I learn that there is a lot to learn. This is really reinforced when you have had the opportunity to observe an advanced pilot fly planes in ways you never even imagined a plane could fly. It was amazing to me. At any rate I would love to hear from you about this plane. BTW the Glider Type model I was working on I completed with the advice you gave me and I took it to the field yesterday. It was windy but the model did fly; thanks to your input. I appreciate you help very much!!!
Best Regards,
Charlie
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#8
Charlie, sorry for the delay in responding but I live quite a few time zones away from you. I answered your post similar to this post on another thread.

The plans are just a development of the original Tiny Trainer design with a slightly beefier motor set up and the wing as posted above. It flys quite slow and predictable but be careful with enough rudder deflection it can almost barrel roll and with enough elevator deflection it can loop in less than a metre from a vertical dive. (Half the time when performing this maneuver the battery can be flung out of the plane and over 50 ft horizontally). After such a maneuver, and the loss of the battery, the plane just flutters down like a heavy leaf. I use a rubber band or two around the nose to stop this happening.:eek:
 

Dgreco63

Multirotor Enthusiast
#9
Shopping for the motor

Ok, I'm getting ready to place my order. I have the Tiny Trainer kit in my cart, servos, y connector, servo extensions, etc, etc... All but the motor and ESC.

You recommended a 2205C 1400kv motor but the closest I could find on the Flite Test Store was this:
Emax CF2822 1200kv motor ($15.50) or the Emax GT2215 1100kv motor ($19.50)


I looked on HobbyKing and saw that they had the 2205C 1400KV motor ($9.98) but it has that prop protector style connector. And I'm not overly fond of them.


In order to get the slow fly characteristics I'm looking for I can use just about any 1400 kv motor, right? Unless the 2205 refers to the RPM then I would look for 2205 rpm @ 1400kv
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
#10
The 2205 number represents the diameter of the motor (22mm) and the thickness or height of the winding part (05mm). The 1400kV means that in a no load scenario, it will turn at 1400rpm for every volt applied. Larger motors will be able to swing a bigger prop without over drawing current and letting the magic smoke out.

My favorite place to get motors from is HTTP://www.headsuphobby.com and they might have something closer to what you're looking for. When I get back to a desk I'll try to put a couple links up of motors that would be a good match.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#12
Ok, I'm getting ready to place my order. I have the Tiny Trainer kit in my cart, servos, y connector, servo extensions, etc, etc... All but the motor and ESC.

You recommended a 2205C 1400kv motor but the closest I could find on the Flite Test Store was this:
Emax CF2822 1200kv motor ($15.50) or the Emax GT2215 1100kv motor ($19.50)


I looked on HobbyKing and saw that they had the 2205C 1400KV motor ($9.98) but it has that prop protector style connector. And I'm not overly fond of them.


In order to get the slow fly characteristics I'm looking for I can use just about any 1400 kv motor, right? Unless the 2205 refers to the RPM then I would look for 2205 rpm @ 1400kv
The motor I mentioned was the HK motor and yes it does have a prop saver built in which is great for those making their first flight and the prop shaft is very short and resistant to being bent in the inevitable crashes. A 5mm long part of the shaft protrudes through the prop saver and I normally fir a prop adapter to that short shaft when a little better performance or larger prop is to be fitted.

Finally I use a lot of them as the price is amazing for the performance I get some of those who use them or higher performance planes actually remove the prop saver by spinning the motor in a drill and applying a hacksaw blade or similar, being extremely careful not to cut the motor shaft.

If the moor is still undesirable so be it but select something that has a power rating of 100 watts or more on 3S. The motor I mentioned has a power rating of 121.5 watt on 3S turning a 9x5 Slow Fly propeller.

I normally start my students out on a 6x5 and upgrade to an 8x5 SF when they are able to fly without assistance.
 

Dgreco63

Multirotor Enthusiast
#13
Thanks to all for the information as well as the links to the different motors. Hopefully I can get some time soon to complete my order and get all this great stuff headed my way
 
#14
How about the Ft mini scout? I think it will be possible to fly in a smaller area that the tits trainer. If you build it straight it flies as if on rails, perfect for beginners!
 

ofiesens2

Professional noob
#15
Not sure if you have ordered the stuff or not,, but seriously, get a couple more servos and scratch build an FT Flyer without the kit if you are up for it. By far the easiest build Flite Test has, it can be pretty fast or super slow, depending on how you fly it and how you place the CG. You can pretty much get the thing to hover even if you don't have much experience with planes. The FT Flyer is how I really started flying, and if you crash, at most you have 1$ worth of foam and tape in repairs.
 

Grifflyer

WWII fanatic
#16
I don't know if you have ordered any thing or started building yet but one of the slowest fliers is the old fogey and at the moment I am working on a 4ch conversion so if it works on the first try you might be able to build that.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#17
With the wing selected the TT can land vertically in a moderate breeze and in a windless landing at a speed equivalent to slow jog.
 

RCman50

family, faith, foam, fun!
#18
Go with the FT Flyer for sure. Can't go wrong. 2208 11-1400kv motor. sweet little trainer. I taught myself to fly with it. I keep a few for my kids to play around with.
 
#19
If you want slow and simple, cheap and durable, then I recommend the original Tiny Trainer with a few minor changes.

I use a 2205C 1400kV on a 850 3S with a 8x4 SF prop. The wing is a slightly different wing to standard in that the span has been increased to approx 1400mm has a very large flat centre section, polyhedral tips with washout.
I really like this idea, since I really like my TT. The TT power pack A comes with a 2280KV motor. Am I right in assuming that I can use a 2S with that motor to get a similar setup to what you have?
 
#20
Hai-Lee,

Im planning a new build. trashed 2 planes in 2 days. more on that in another thread.

Im very interested in your modified TT and have a couple questions.

You refer to the fuselage as like the "original" Tiny Trainer. Is the posted FT Tiny trainer the one you are refering to or was there another version?

Your wing design. 1400mm? Thats huge, bu if it works who am I to question success? Baseed on the drawing and your description the foil profile seems to be about the same as the one with the plans. You have altered the polyhedrial a good deal, shifting it to mostly the last 20-25% of each wing tip.

Did. you stretch the fuselage at all or just the wing?

Thanks
Bill