Looking for first plane

[Foam Addict]

www.rcdeskpilot.com is a free sim. It's for Windows only. I use it and it's okay. I have yet to try it with the wind on, but sims are for two things: 1) so you know which stick does what. You can grow muscle memory with the Tx. 2) so you don't turn the wrong way. So when the plane is coming towards you, you don't turn right when you meant to turn left. Really any sim will help you with this and the quality doesn't really matter. No sim can replace real world experience, it's just a tool to make it an easier transition and to learn a few things.

I know Hobby King sells a crappy cheap Sim package that is a USB game controller that could never be used as an actual Tx, which almost makes it a waste of money. A better way to go, if you're going to scratch build, is to buy the Tx you want, and if that Tx can't be hooked up to a computer, then get this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=43335 Most Txs CAN be hooked up to a computer without that, but the $30 Hobby King Tx can't.

I think with scratch building you're going to end up spending about $150 for everything. And that's buying the cheapest Tx they make. Scratch building has its problems, mainly that you're not going to build your first plane that well and you can never fly a crappy plane well. Plus you can't fly well when you first start, so it can be a disaster. But it's cheap. You can build whatever you want and it's cheap.

Before I get into too much more, where do you live? I want to know if I can/should recommend things that are only available in the USA.

I know this is late, but...


Rc desk pilot is a great Sim, except for flying wings, they don't work well. And yes it is possible to fly with a cheapo two stick game controller. I learned basic 3d with the 3d plane and a game pad. Wind on things get interesting fast, I like the wind, as you can slope soar using it. I whole hearted lay recommend this as a first Sim.
Also, about the Bixler. Get it. Now. It flies better than the EZ star, hawk sky, floater jet or EZ star 2 all of which I have flown, (though I haven't bought the EZ star 2) It has survived two spectacular crashes and still flies great.

 

[Kogashuko]

How about compared to the skywalker x5 wing? What about payload and range? I am looking to have a full autopilot UAV thing going at some point. Purly just for the fun but I could see some options down the road if the "drone" market ever kicks off it is good to have as much experience as possible in that way.

 

[lonewolf7717]

Really no comparison between the x5 and a glider style Bixler. Two radically different types if craft. That being said the x5 is small, smaller than many think. I would venture a guess a bixler can handle more payload COMFORTABLY than the x5.

 

[lonewolf7717]

Ehhh let me expound a bit. We are talking payload and the main caveat to payload is CG. With a high/mid wing, long nose craft like the bixler there is a great deal more flexibility as to how the payload (i.e. Lipos, VTx, camera) are situated on the plane. Generally with flying wings the CG is far more critical, it needs to be pretty spot on which can limit your options as to how things lay out on the plane. A bixler type craft will for the most part still fly even if CG is too far aft or forward.....a flying wing won't fly at all if you are too far off.

 

[rcspaceflight]

And yes it is possible to fly with a cheapo two stick game controller. I learned basic 3d with the 3d plane and a game pad.

I ordered that part I recommended a few days ago, so I haven't gotten it yet. I actually screw around with RC Desk Pilot using my joystick flight controller I bought to use with Microsoft Flight Sim X. I agree that even using the "wrong" type of controller helps. You don't fully build up the muscle memory, but you do grow a better understanding of keeping your orientation and knowing which direction to turn the plane when it's flying towards you.

 

[Kogashuko]

Cool, I want to mess with something simple and stupid... So it will be a bixler.

What will the flaps offer me that I would really need for hobby flights?

Sorry, not asking for airodynamics 101, just trying to justify the extra work for servos vs loss of some control.

Also, not trying to hijack a thread but I am sure this will help the OP.

 

[RoyBro]

The best answer I can offer is to have you watch the episode on the Bixler 2. I think they demonstrate what the flaps can do.

 

[rcspaceflight]

What will the flaps offer me that I would really need for hobby flights?

Flaps are basically air brakes. Technically they increase drag AND add lift. They are usually only used during take off and landing. You can get the plane in the air at a slower speed with the flaps down, and the plane can fly at a slower speed so you can touch down slower and easier for landing. But you can also fly around at a much slower speed with the flaps down because of the increase lift.

 

[lonewolf7717]

Cool, I want to mess with something simple and stupid... So it will be a bixler.

What will the flaps offer me that I would really need for hobby flights?

Sorry, not asking for airodynamics 101, just trying to justify the extra work for servos vs loss of some control.

Also, not trying to hijack a thread but I am sure this will help the OP.

Flaps, which I had modded on my first Bixler (before they became part of the package deal) offer a few upsides. I typically my flaps at two different degrees of deflection, many guys will run three but in essence at the smallest degree of deflection it provides substantial low speed stability. On slightly windy days I could engage a little flap and just "hang" the plane, almost stationary if there was something interesting I wanted to view for awhile without making multiple higher speed passes. If engaged to a greater degree it helped a great deal with landing the "Bix" in smaller spaces. One thing new flyers should note is the bixler is a glider first and foremost and being so it takes some room to get down because the darn thing wants to keep on gliding. With full flaps engaged it decreases the wings total lift capability allowing for flying out of tighter spots. I have not installed flaps on any of my bixlers since but it can be useful. Couple thing to consider. You will need to know how to reverse a servo internally as I did or purchase a servo reverser and you will need a radio capable of switch assignment, mixing and a servo slow function.

 

[lonewolf7717]

Flaps should be engaged slowly...the slower the better otherwise some pretty weird stuff happens....hence the servo slow function.

 

[Kogashuko]

So the work like the would on a real aircraft and not for moving your plane around in the air... cool. I will watch the video. I started looking at it a few weeks ago but got side tracked working on the house. While I am here youtube sucks so this will be my first on the list of things to do when I get home.

 

[kingbee]

Hi tommy

welcome to the hobby world lol . i saw some nice beginner plane at http://www.nitroplanes.com . also they have good prices.
as for a simulator nitro planes has it for 15.90 New RC Tech 6 CH Flight Simulator Remote Control for Helicopters/ Airplanes. link http://www.nitroplanes.com/newrcte6chfl.html .nitro plane is in L.A usa. now on the other hand if you like waiting 35 or 40 day then order from china .

 

[TommyK154]

I third or fourth the "Bix" as a good option for first plane. It should be noted though there are a great many Sky Surfer clones floating around out there to chose from. BananaHobby has the original Sky Surfer version 5, Nitroplanes has the Wing Surfer and ValueHobby has a slightly smaller craft called the Easy Trainer. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Bixler from HK, just giving you point of purchase options. As a side note, I sorta surprised no one has mention the AXN Floater Jet as a good alternative. I agree the radio supplied with RTF bixler lacks in many ways, better to buy your own TX system like the 9x or 9xr. I also will advocate the purchase of a kit rather than an RTF. These kits are super simple to assemble plus there is a great deal more knowledge to be garnered from picking and choosing all the components required. There is a ton of online step by steps for building these craft and motor/prop ESC suggestions.

One of the reasons I'm considering the Apprentice is because it comes with a great radio (compared to the other planes I initially listed) and for me rtfs let me know that my radio will work with that plane. I also don't know much about radios and receivers which is another reason I don't want to mess around with them for my first plane.

 

[Kogashuko]

I really like my 9x. It was not any trouble to setup and would be the same as that one. Just has the option to set the switches later, they do nothign to begin with. With the Crius running mission planner on a quad I have one of the switches set to stabalize, loiter, and auto. I also have another switch set to RTL. I can toggle the failsafe between auto and RTL which is really nice. The same could be done with a plane. The 9x also comes with evething you need to make it work or you can upgrade later. I wouldnt mess with trying to pair the old receiver to the transmitter unless you are sure it will work. Just simply swap the receiver on the planes pin for pin. You have hook it up anyway when you build it so it doesnt matter when you do it. If you decide to go the APM or Crius route you would have to plug your servos and motor to the board and then plug the receiver to the board. Thats what I plan to do and have been doing a bunch of research on how to hook it up. For me it makes the most sense to hook it up at the time of build.

Either way I dont think you would be disapointed.

 

[RoyBro]

One of the reasons I'm considering the Apprentice is because it comes with a great radio (compared to the other planes I initially listed) and for me rtfs let me know that my radio will work with that plane. I also don't know much about radios and receivers which is another reason I don't want to mess around with them for my first plane.

That's a completely valid point of view. If you do get the Apprentice S 15e you'll get all the advantages of the SAFE system. The radio that comes with it is a Spectrum DX5e 5 channel. I'm not familiar with what programming options (dual rates, expo, elevons, etc.) are available, but you should be able to use it for the more basic FT planes. Just be aware that you'll be looking for a fully programmable radio in short order.

I'd love to see the Apprentice S 15e in an ARF or even a BNF. I'd spend an extra $30 for a DSMX module so I can use my 9x or Taranis with it.

But if you're going to get it. Christmas is coming and I see they are already sold out on Horizon. But HobbyZone says they have them in stock.
Just know that

 

[rcspaceflight]

I ordered that part I recommended a few days ago, so I haven't gotten it yet. I actually screw around with RC Desk Pilot using my joystick flight controller I bought to use with Microsoft Flight Sim X. I agree that even using the "wrong" type of controller helps. You don't fully build up the muscle memory, but you do grow a better understanding of keeping your orientation and knowing which direction to turn the plane when it's flying towards you.

Yes I'm replying to myself. lol. I just want to say that I got the 9 in 1 wireless sim box today. I don't now how most other sims are set up, but it's nice to be able to have the Tx set up the way you want it, and then have the Rx plugged into the computer. I can use my throttle cut and dual rates just like they would work in the real world. I see that one of the planes that come with RC Desk Pilot has landing gear, I could set up my Tx the same way I would have landing gear set up in the real world and use it that way.

So basically, that part I recommended does work and I know from personal experience.

 

[RoyBro]

Yes I'm replying to myself. lol. I just want to say that I got the 9 in 1 wireless sim box today. I don't now how most other sims are set up, but it's nice to be able to have the Tx set up the way you want it, and then have the Rx plugged into the computer. I can use my throttle cut and dual rates just like they would work in the real world. I see that one of the planes that come with RC Desk Pilot has landing gear, I could set up my Tx the same way I would have landing gear set up in the real world and use it that way.

So basically, that part I recommended does work and I know from personal experience.

The problem with the 9 in 1sim, is that the included software is pirated.

 

[rcspaceflight]

The problem with the 9 in 1sim, is that the included software is pirated.

I should say the "Wireless 9 in 1 Simulator Adapter". I was under the impression that it is only a device to make any Tx act like a game controller, which it does. The box it came in makes it sound like it has a few sims with it, but if it does, it has them on the device and I don't know how to take them off, not that I actually tried. I know if it has any sims on it they would be pirated, which is something I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with and would never actually use them. And if it does have them, then it makes me sad that I ended up rewarding such behavior when all I wanted was a way to use my $30 Hobby King 6ch Tx as a sim controller. (I couldn't get it to work with the programming USB cable and I'm not computer smart enough to figure out which drivers I need. Buying the adapter was just easier and I knew it would work.)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=43335

Okay. Rant over. I just wanted to make it clear that I don't agree with Hobby King selling pirated intellectual property.

 

[RoyBro]

RCSF,
This product is not the one I thought. The pirated package has appeared as the 9 in 1 and the 12 in 1 depending on how many more sims they've packaged together. I'm not sure if the wireless product you purchased has any software bundled with it. There isn't enough in the description to tell. I do apologize if my statement caused you any grief. Perhaps you can find out for sure if this is a product we should avoid or if it is an adapter we can all use.

 

[rcspaceflight]

RCSF,
This product is not the one I thought. The pirated package has appeared as the 9 in 1 and the 12 in 1 depending on how many more sims they've packaged together. I'm not sure if the wireless product you purchased has any software bundled with it. There isn't enough in the description to tell. I do apologize if my statement caused you any grief. Perhaps you can find out for sure if this is a product we should avoid or if it is an adapter we can all use.

I just wanted to make my opinion clear. I think the product I linked is simply the hardware to make any Tx a game controller. However, the box is confusing because it generically says "SIMULATOR" with a sticker added onto it claiming that it's the hardware. On the back of the box it has a list of requirements and says things like "256MB RAM" and "4GB hard-disk space". The box is the exact size to hold multiple CDs. I honestly think the box is probably the same one the 9 in 1 and/or 12 in 1 sim that you were referring to comes in. Which means it's the same manufacturer. So it might be just as bad to buy it because of the behavior it rewards. But as far as I know it's the only product that makes any Rx, and therefore Tx, a USB game controller. Which makes me sad that I personally ended up rewarding pirating, but, what are you going to do? I didn't know and I wanted it.

EDIT: I want to add that the back of the box also says "DVD-ROM Drive for installation" and "90% DirectX 9 compatible sound card". So obviously the box is for the 9 in 1 pirated sim.