Lowrider CNC

rockyboy

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Thanks, but I'm doing it just like the plans for the Lowrider call for it - which follows the same wiring and electronics components of the MPCNC platform. My problem is either faulty wiring, or faulty salvaged equipment (all the new stuff I bought from the designer of those platforms so I know it's sized correctly) - the design is proven.
 

rockyboy

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Success!!

Something was up with one of my salvaged steppers. Could be what was causing some of my printing troubles on the PrintrBot I salvaged it from too. Anyway, two new steppers arrived from Vicious CNC today - super fast shipping! I spent a little while tearing the machine apart and putting the new parts in. Tested each stepper independently to make sure they were working right before soldering them into the wiring harness.

2017-09-18 16.28.14.jpg

And she works! :applause:


Now I need to install Estlcam and try to draw something with the pen holder I printed out - that's the rectangular part sticking off the back of the X carriage.

I also got another step closer on the needle cutter, but I'll post details and progress on that over in the other thread.

Eventually I'll figure out which of the steppers is bad and put the other one on the other side of the X axis carriage - several builders reported that helped with stability and speed of cut using a router. Probably overkill for the needle cutter though.
 
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jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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Looks great can't wait to see some chips fly and needle poke!

Fingers crossed that other shipment is almost as fast as the steppers ;)
 

rockyboy

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Thanks so much for the motor! The needle cutter is working great - details in the other thread :)

I'm coming back to this thread to see if anyone can help me out with a problem that's less needle cutter, and more CNC machine related.

I’m having some SD card problems. I’m using the Ramps 1.4 setup with LCD controller and stock cables as ordered from Vicious Circle here. The firmware is the Marlin build for the Lowrider downloaded a couple days ago from Vicious Circle as well. I’m familiar with how the ‘Print from SD Card’ option is supposed to work – use it all the time with my 3D printer.

What’s happening is this. I insert the SD card into the LCD screen and the initial screen says ‘Card Inserted”. Then push the button to go into the menu and it says “No SD Card” – and when I go into the “No SD Card” of course there are no files displayed.

I’ve tried both a 2gb and a 8gb SD card – both formatted for FAT32 – and I’ve tried file extensions of .gcode and .gc and .nc if that matters at all. Both these are known good cards that work in my 3D printer just fine.

I’ve seen comments from people that long cables cause problems, but I’m using stock length. I’ve also seen older comments about FAT32 not being supported back in 2013 or so, but as far as I can figure it’s a supported format now.

Sort of out of ideas to try at the moment – any thoughts out there? Can anyone confirm their SD card format parameters, size, and file extensions just so I know I’m using the right specs for this?

Thanks!
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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Sort of out of ideas to try at the moment – any thoughts out there? Can anyone confirm their SD card format parameters, size, and file extensions just so I know I’m using the right specs for this?

Thanks!

Sounds like that should work. I sometimes have to reseat my card once or twice before it registers. Since you said you have a similar setup on your 3D printer I'm sure you know the card goes in "upside down" on the LCD (label on the SD facing away from you when you're looking at the LCD.)

You may want to double check the soldering on the LCD/RAMPS adapter - I got one which had only half the pins soldered...worked ok sometimes then I'd bump something and it would stop. Took a close look, saw the missing solder - soldered it up...and it's been going fine for almost 2 years now :)

I'm guessing it's an issue with the LCD module and/or adapter board. Or possibly the RAMPS itself. Doesn't sound like it's a SD/formatting/Marlin issue but more likely hardware. (Which sadly is not uncommon with these RAMPS boards.)
 

rockyboy

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SD Card problem fixed! The solder joints all looked good, but I decided to take the LCD and cable off my printer and try it on the Lowrider just to double check the hardware. And the new LCD worked just hanging off the RAMPS board. So I put the working LCD into the Lowrider and it stopped working - which was excellent! That proved I screwed up making the cable crimps for the Lowider! I sliced off the cable ends, recrimped the cable, and now I have working SD card readers on both machines :applause:

So onto the next problem... :black_eyed:

I loaded up a fairly simple test gcode file and the printer just moved and buzzed a little bit - about 15mm in the Y axis - but wouldn't go anymore. Then the Marlin software spat up an error about 'heated temperature not reached' or some such. Which makes me think I installed the wrong Lowrider firmware - so time to reflash the board making darn sure I get the firmware that's not expecting or supporting a heated bed and extruder.

Of course just when I need to do this, my laptop barfed completely and I wiped the partitions to reinstall from scratch on it. So I either unwire the Arduino from the Lowrider to take it up to the desktop (not optimal), or finish setting up the laptop so I can connect to the Lowrider 'in the wild'. Might be a day or two before I get to the next step here. :)
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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SD Card problem fixed!

Excellent! I figured it was some kind of connection issue, glad to hear you were able to easily sort it out.

I loaded up a fairly simple test gcode file and the printer just moved and buzzed a little bit - about 15mm in the Y axis - but wouldn't go anymore. Then the Marlin software spat up an error about 'heated temperature not reached' or some such. Which makes me think I installed the wrong Lowrider firmware - so time to reflash the board making darn sure I get the firmware that's not expecting or supporting a heated bed and extruder.

Saw your video...I couldn't tell it was actually moving it was so slow :) FWIW I've been using 20mm/s feedrate with mine. It doesn't give quite as clean of a cut as 15mm/s but it's still "clean enough for me" and being able to cut something big like the X-29 in 73 minutes is worth the compromise for me. YMMV though.

Of course just when I need to do this, my laptop barfed completely and I wiped the partitions to reinstall from scratch on it. So I either unwire the Arduino from the Lowrider to take it up to the desktop (not optimal), or finish setting up the laptop so I can connect to the Lowrider 'in the wild'. Might be a day or two before I get to the next step here. :)

:( I'm still on RC-6 of Marlin because it's a pain to reflash my board. Well, that and I customized my menus a bit and don't want to have to bring those changes over to the new version since the LCD code has changed quite a bit. I need to build my "pendant" idea instead. With a few dedicated hardware buttons for "Set Home", "Go to Z 0", "Go to 0,0", "Enable Steppers", "Disable Steppers", "Move X/Y/Z", "Raise Z 15mm", "Pause", "Stop" it would be so much nice than going through the menus. Though...I also put a "reprap controller" app on my phone a few weeks ago and have been meaning to wire a Bluetooth module to my Ramps and give that a try. Still think I'd rather have dedicated hardware buttons though.
 

rockyboy

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YES! I have gcode driven movement!! I got the firmware switched out, and only had time for a single test run last night. So just to check things out I did an 'air cut' without needle cutter spinning and the Lowrider frame worked great!

I'll do more (and get video) tonight but I feel this is a pretty big milestone to get through - SD card delivered gcode files made it go! :applause:
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
YES! I have gcode driven movement!! I got the firmware switched out, and only had time for a single test run last night. So just to check things out I did an 'air cut' without needle cutter spinning and the Lowrider frame worked great!

I'll do more (and get video) tonight but I feel this is a pretty big milestone to get through - SD card delivered gcode files made it go! :applause:

Outstanding! And that is a real milestone... well done! Look forward to the vid... :)
 

rockyboy

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Thanks!!

My goal tonight is to see if I can cut out a couple test ribs for my upcoming 102" FW-42 build. Not sure if these are the right size or not, but hey - it's only a test. I'm trying out the Easel software for gcode generation, mostly because it has a very cool built-in app to generate wing ribs using about 30 different airfoils and automatically adjust for different root and tip chord lengths. I just went with a Clark-Y on these and added a pair of spar holes to keep the incidence level when installed in the fuselage.

http://easel.inventables.com/projects/Js8geflAi5c1YG7ROAkJfg

I've installed and will be learning Estlcam for the main parts of the plan, but Easel is really simple for knocking out small designs - and airfoils :)
 
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jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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I played with easel a little...but didn't see any way to setup a post-processor and it didn't look like it was generating Marlin friendly gcode (Marlin is a little picky in some ways about gcode.)

I also tried importing FT plans and it choked on the exported SVG's because they still had fonts in them (estlcam can't handle the fonts but just happily ignores them) so I either have to render all the text as polys or delete it...which is more time than I want to put in :D It also wouldn't import DXF, and wouldn't import my existing gcode since it's not gcode setup for one of their machines :(
 

rockyboy

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Wow - that's a whole lot of limitations. Sounds like it's going to be a very limited use tool in this context.

Thanks!
 

rockyboy

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Foam has been cut!! :applause:

Only took about 4 or 5 failed attempts tonight before I figured things out.


Attached is a pic of the 4 items I was able to cut out tonight after much learning.

2017-09-26 22.57.55.jpg

Two FT Mini Power Pods, and one pair of Clark-Y 11.7% airfoil ribs with an 8 inch chord. Why would I cut such a thing? Testing of course! :p

So things I learned tonight:

1) Default Lowrider firmware as downloaded from Vicious Circle has the steps per mm settings off by a factor of 2. After editing the configuration.h file to cut x, y, and z steps in half, the newly flashed firmware worked great!

2) If the needle cutter is running and the stepper motors aren't, the Z height steppers will not be energized and the head will crash down unevenly depending on the location of the X carriage. Order of operations is to start the SD cut file, then reach over and quickly turn on the needle cutter while it's making the first travel move.

3) Need a hold down clamp to keep the foam spoil board from moving around on the worktable. I bumped it twice, throwing off the cut both times - especially the bump when it was in a travel move and not an active cut.

4) Hitting the emergency power off switch to stop the Lowrider from moving works great - but since the needle cutter is on a separate bench power feed, it keeps right on making a hole in stuff.

Planned future improvements to the system include;

1) Wiring the needle cutter power through the main Lowrider power supply so the emergency cut switch works like it should.

2) Figure out a relay to power the needle cutter that can be controlled via gcode so all of the steps for the cutting operation are in one file.

3) Build a spring loaded roller guide to prevent DTFB from bowing up in the middle. This seems like an easier approach than a vacuum table in the short term, especially in light of the success in the needle cutter thread.

4) Reduce the overall length of the needle so less is flexing in the breeze below the guide.
 

randyrls

Randy
Build a spring loaded roller guide to prevent DTFB from bowing up in the middle. This seems like an easier approach than a vacuum table in the short term, especially in light of the success in the needle cutter thread

Rocky; I like your solutions.

I had a thought to make a hold down like a sewing machine pressor foot. A 1" ring should do the trick, either weighted or like you described a spring tension. How to attach? If on the cutter you get auto retraction so it doesn't drag during moves provided a limit stop on the spring.
 

rockyboy

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Thanks!

The rough idea in my head is to use some mouse balls (I just had to say it!) instead of a solid foot on a sliding frame that hangs down from the needle cutter carriage to be a few mm lower than the end of the mig tip.

The moveable portion of the frame would be connected to the stationary frame section with springs or perhaps rubber bands to provide greater tension on the work piece when the needle cutter is lowered. Stops would be added to the mouse ball rack to ensure they don't drop free when the cutter is up at travel height.

My concerns on the tension side are making sure there is enough pressure on the foam when a score cut or marking cut is run to hold down the work piece, but not so much tension that the mouse balls leave tracks on the foam when the cutter is all the way extended for a through cut. I figure the spring / rubber band portion of the assembly would extend up through a hole in the carriage (or just beside the needle cutter) so a longer spring/rubber band could be used to even out the pressure differences over the expected travel distance.

I think I finally have a project idea here that's a good candidate to learn how to use Onshape :)
 

dkj4linux

Elite member
Thanks!

The rough idea in my head is to use some mouse balls (I just had to say it!) instead of a solid foot on a sliding frame that hangs down from the needle cutter carriage to be a few mm lower than the end of the mig tip.

The moveable portion of the frame would be connected to the stationary frame section with springs or perhaps rubber bands to provide greater tension on the work piece when the needle cutter is lowered. Stops would be added to the mouse ball rack to ensure they don't drop free when the cutter is up at travel height.

My concerns on the tension side are making sure there is enough pressure on the foam when a score cut or marking cut is run to hold down the work piece, but not so much tension that the mouse balls leave tracks on the foam when the cutter is all the way extended for a through cut. I figure the spring / rubber band portion of the assembly would extend up through a hole in the carriage (or just beside the needle cutter) so a longer spring/rubber band could be used to even out the pressure differences over the expected travel distance.

I think I finally have a project idea here that's a good candidate to learn how to use Onshape :)
Y'all might be interested in looking at Neil's (iGull) "pressure foot" over in the needle-cutter thread (http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?24251-Cutting-foam-sheets-with-a-needle!&p=368216&viewfull=1#post368216)...

20170925_165207.jpg

This is of course perfect for his pivoted motor design where the relative motion between needle tip and guide tip allows the "foot" to always be in contact with the material and yet still allow both score/marking cuts and through-cuts.

Another similar method that Tom McGuire (who inspired me... and is, to my knowledge, the "father" of the needle cutter :applause:) used on his Foam Cutter Machine (http://www.instructables.com/id/Atomicwire-Foam-Cutting-Machine/) is a simple plastic spoon bowl, epoxied onto the end of his neede guide...

FHYR7TCG6MPGMQP.MEDIUM.jpg

The disadvantage here is that the "pressure foot" works great for through-cuts but in making shallower, score/marking, cuts it isn't in contact with the foam.

The simplest way, however, to keep the foam from raising up in the middle is to always place the foam "crown down" on the spoil-board (like a "bowl") and then clamp/pin/weight the edges. This is the method I (and others) use and is usually sufficient to get decent score/marking cuts without them cutting through. This is what I'm doing with my new Phlatprinter-inspired machine where I place the foam sheet in the frame "crown down" and then use a set of printed clips around the edges to flatten and hold the sheet in place...

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-- David
 

rockyboy

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Doh!! Crown down! Of course! :black_eyed:

Man I feel like a dolt after looking at this last night and trying to come up with a variable pressure idea. :eek:

Unless I end up seeing wave action or compound curves in my DTFB, that's the obvious approach I'll be taking - now that it's been pointed out since I couldn't see what was right in front of me :p

Thank you David!!
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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Foam has been cut!! :applause:

Only took about 4 or 5 failed attempts tonight before I figured things out.

Congrats, that's way less failed attempts than it took me to get things figured out :D

2) If the needle cutter is running and the stepper motors aren't, the Z height steppers will not be energized and the head will crash down unevenly depending on the location of the X carriage. Order of operations is to start the SD cut file, then reach over and quickly turn on the needle cutter while it's making the first travel move.

One thing you could do is connect the needle cutter line to one of the servo ports on the Ramps and use M280 commands to turn it on/off. You might be able to setup the CAM to use M280 as the "spindle on" command...but I'm not sure - it could just be inserted manually in the gcode easily enough. The one issue is RAMPS doesn't output a servo signal by default - so you'd have to do a M280 P0 S0 (assuming you're on the same port I'm using) to start outputting pulses which will cause the ESC to initialize. And then a M280 P0 S80 the 80 is a guess 90 is a bit too high on mine but is what I have programmed into my LCD controls for testing currently, you'd have to play around to find a good value but basically it's the servo setting in "degres" so 0-180. Since "3-4" works good on my servo tester I'm guessing something in the 60-80 range should be appropriate.

So what I'd do is at the very top of the gcode I'd add:

M280 P0 S0 // Start outputting pulses to allow ESC to init.
G4 S5 // 5 second pause to allow the ESC to initialize - may need more or less time
M280 P0 S70 // Set ESC to 70 degrees (since it thinks it's talking to a servo)
G4 S5 // 5 second pause to allow ESC to come up to speed and stabilize - may need more or less.

Then at the end of your cutting gcode you could also add:
M280 P0 S0 // Turn off needle cutter

Except...there's a risk it could stop with the needle down and snag. If you were to do this it may be worthwhile to do something like mount a magnet above the flywheel to encourage it to stop with the needle fully retracted. Or you could just add:

M400 // Wait for movement to finish
M280 P0 S0 // Turn off Needle

At the VERY end after it returns to home - that way it's not moving so it doesn't matter if the needle is fully retracted or not.

I'm actually getting ready to do this myself - just been lazy about experimenting to find the speeds/timings that work best for me. But I'm tired of having my servo tester tied up on the machine and really want to fully automate it.

I think in ESTLCAM it's possible to define start/end gcode like this...if not it's not that big of a deal to cut and paste it manually.

3) Need a hold down clamp to keep the foam spoil board from moving around on the worktable. I bumped it twice, throwing off the cut both times - especially the bump when it was in a travel move and not an active cut.

I just use carpet tape - but it's kind of messy and makes me not enjoy swapping spoil boards (I use a wooden one with my router.) My spoil board doesn't lay flat...none of the foam I found locally did. So clamps weren't enough. A few bits of carpet tape in the corners and middle hold it fine. Though this is why I'm wanting to switch to a vac table which can suck itself to the table as well was suck my work to itself.

4) Hitting the emergency power off switch to stop the Lowrider from moving works great - but since the needle cutter is on a separate bench power feed, it keeps right on making a hole in stuff.

I switched to that motor specifically since it can run at 12v off the same power as the CNC. But I'm still using a separate supply because the one I'm currently using for my machine is already at it's limits. (it's from an old mini emachines PC and is the smallest weakest PC power supply I've ever seen.) I have three other nicer PC supplies sitting there...but one isn't happy without a big load, one is being used to power my outside "stereo" (Just a cheap $20 wallyworld car amp hooked to some cheap 6x9 speakers), and the third I haven't got around to messing with yet. I've also got 3-4 other old PC's with good supplies I could scavenge but haven't got around to.

In fact cleaning up the wiring on my machine is something I've been really slacking off about. I got it good enough things don't get tangled while operating anymore but my RAMPS is still just sitting there on the table off to the side and my power plugs are just run off a heavy duty extension cord/power strip. I really want to add some outlets in the table and mount the RAMPS under it with the reset button re-wired to somewhere I can reach it. I also bought an estop button to wire into the main power so that's another reason I want to clean up the power wiring.

3) Build a spring loaded roller guide to prevent DTFB from bowing up in the middle. This seems like an easier approach than a vacuum table in the short term, especially in light of the success in the needle cutter thread.

Like David said - easiest solution for now is to put it crown down and pin the corners. It doesn't make it perfectly flat...but as long as you aren't trying to get your score cuts right up to the bottom paper it generally works well enough for me. Though the corners of my waste board are wearing out from all the pins going in and out in the same place :D

4) Reduce the overall length of the needle so less is flexing in the breeze below the guide.

I was going to suggest this :) The needle should fully retract on it's upstroke. I try to keep mine no more than 8mm past the bottom of the guide at full extension so I have 2mm of headspace with the 6mm deep cuts I take for full cuts. Makes a big difference in accuracy having it shorter! I did leave my current needle a few mm extra long ~10mm fully extended - just so I'd be able to get more "sharpenings" out of it before having to replace it because I'm lazy like that :D
 

rockyboy

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Getting back to this project today - I crashed my Mini FW-42 and needed a new nose, so I did a quick import of the SVG into Easel and look at this - it's making parts!


In addition to connecting the spindle/needle control into the machine you like mention above, I also have some gcode generation issues to work out. The Easel software doesn't optimize the cutting job at all, it thinks the job should have taken 32 minutes. But it also can't tell time, because it actually took close to 2 hours. :(

So it's time to learn Estlcam I think...

But the final product is very usable quality! I think I can tighten it up a little by reducing the needle stroke as mentioned, and will try that for the canard that I need to cut out next.

2017-10-29 12.46.24.jpg

And here's the back of the sheet - fully cut through where it should be, and the score line depth is good too :)

2017-10-29 12.49.27.jpg
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
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Looking pretty good. You can definitely cut faster...I use 15mm/sec on mine. Time estimates...are never very good but estlcam's are usually off the other way for me. I suspect because it doesn't account for acceleration the same way that Marlin does. (Estlcam assumes more conservative acceleration I believe.)

You should definitely shorten up that needle though! Or add some more spacers ;) The closer the mig tip is to the foam when doing through cuts the better the results you'll get. Mine is actually too high right now with a good 3-4mm - but I'm happy with my cut quality and that gives me enough needle to sharpen it a few times without replacing it so I'm ok with it.

Can't wait to see it going once you get it moving faster ;)