LW ASA Printing

[telnar1236]

I'm starting this thread as a place to discuss printing in LW-ASA. I recently got my hands on a spool of Eryone LW-ASA so I'm curious what it's like. I'm hoping it's a good alternative to LW-PLA but with more heat resistance and even lighter still.

Has anyone experimented with printing in this material? I've seen a fairly wide range of claims about it online, from it's awful, warps badly, and is very brittle, to it's amazing and essentially superior to LW-PLA in every way.

 

[Houndpup Rc]

Sounds cool! (Watching)

 

[LitterBug]

My buddy just picked up his first 3D printer and some LW ASA. need to check on his progress. maybe trade some LW PLA for some LW ASA.

 

[telnar1236]

So far it's proving interesting - it does warp a bit, but it seems not to be as bad as normal ASA or ABS - it also doesn't seem to need an enclosure to print well, although it stinks, so you really probably should have one. On the other hand, it's even softer than LW-PLA. Still useable but definitely noticeable, and it doesn't seem very strong either so I suspect it would need additional structure even more so than LW-PLA. I also haven't gotten it to print with less than 70% extrusion multiplier which gives it the same density as LW-PLA printed at 60%. That may be an issue with my settings though, since I'm using an older printer that can only go up to 260 C on its hot end since I don't want to ruin my shiny new one if something goes wrong. The recommended settings are up to 280 C so it may need higher temps to increase the amount it foams up.

Currently, I'm leaning towards the camp of the only real advantage is the heat resistance which is admittedly a big advantage. But I still have a whole spool to experiment with, so I might as well see if I can use it for something and it doesn't seem to be any worse to print with than LW-PLA so far.

 

[telnar1236]

With my F-106, I've mostly worked out how to get good prints with this LW-ASA. Here are my conclusions (it is important to note that my print, like most other designs including from Eclipson doesn't actually use the vase mode option as this breaks some kinds of geometry and instead relies on carefully shaped geometry to print as close to vase mode as possible):

1. Prints MUST be nearly vase mode. Non vase mode prints end up very poor and there's a good chance they will lead to clogs. You can get away with small sections that don't print using vase mode, but you need to be careful with them. There are a lot of slicer settings you can get away with using LW-PLA that you cannot get away with using LW-ASA. The most important of these is to set "ensure vertical shell thickness" to none as this results in walls thicker than 0.4mm on angled surfaces and results in many additional travel moves.
2. For areas that do not use vase mode, do not use the avoid crossing walls setting. Oozing is basically impossible to stop and you end up with under-extruded areas after longer travel moves
3. Use 70% extrusion ratio. You do not actually end up with the full 70% and it is probably closer to 50-60% extrusion that you actually get (this was true across both printers I've gotten it to print on, both of which were direct drive). This still results in walls of about 0.6mm. I printed at 270 C.
4. Some printers that should be able to print it can't for no apparent reason. My third 3D printer clogged on the first layer every single time I tried for no apparent reason and I cannot get it to print this filament. It is a direct drive, core X Y printer that prints LW-PLA flawlessly.
5. Leaving the enclosure open (or printing without an enclosure) is the way to go, but you need a ton of good ventilation. Creep seems to be a problem with the door closed, but this filament stinks so I left my door open to my porch all day as I printed the parts.
6. Geometry more than about 100mm tall has a good chance of layer splitting becoming a problem. It's pretty easy to fix by filling in the gaps with CA and lightly misting with water to start it hardening, but best practice would probably be to print shorter parts.
7. It is very weak. Once printed the parts feel ok, but it is much easier to accidentally poke holes in the printed skin when compared to LW-PLA. Any wings (or even horizontal tail surfaces) probably need carbon fiber spars. You could probably design something that would work with no spar, but it would be tough.

However, it has some major advantages.

1. It is LIGHT. Picking up some of the parts, it barely felt like I was holding anything. Even compared to LW-PLA, LW-ASA is notable lighter, and the additional structure required doesn't even come close to eroding that edge.
2. Incredible heat and UV resistance. If you live somewhere hot and sunny, this is very important to the longevity of your planes.
3. It sands and paints very easily. Being such a weak material, it is the easiest to sand material I have ever printed with. It doesn't seem to warp when painted either, at least with the spray paint I tried.
4. Warping is essentially 0. It's such a soft material that I think stresses don't really have much ability to build up and it results in beautiful very precise prints. So long as you follow a very specific set of rules for design and printing, it seems to print perfectly every single time, with the exception of the layer splitting issue I mentioned previously. Overall, I'd say it's actually easier to print than ABS, but much more limited in what you can print with it and do with it.
5. Stringing is less than with LW-PLA. I think the weaker material just breaks instead of forming long strings like with LW-PLA. Any stringing that does occur can very easily be knocked off, basically just be brushing your fingers over it, though light sanding cleans it up better.

I think I'll probably end up buying another spool when I get done with this one, though I doubt I'll use it very much. It's very situational, but for small light planes, it gives me some pretty crazy weight reduction and lets me build things that are comparable in weight to very light depron construction.

 

[Houndpup Rc]

With my F-106, I've mostly worked out how to get good prints with this LW-ASA. Here are my conclusions (it is important to note that my print, like most other designs including from Eclipson doesn't actually use the vase mode option as this breaks some kinds of geometry and instead relies on carefully shaped geometry to print as close to vase mode as possible):

1. Prints MUST be nearly vase mode. Non vase mode prints end up very poor and there's a good chance they will lead to clogs. You can get away with small sections that don't print using vase mode, but you need to be careful with them. There are a lot of slicer settings you can get away with using LW-PLA that you cannot get away with using LW-ASA. The most important of these is to set "ensure vertical shell thickness" to none as this results in walls thicker than 0.4mm on angled surfaces and results in many additional travel moves.
2. For areas that do not use vase mode, do not use the avoid crossing walls setting. Oozing is basically impossible to stop and you end up with under-extruded areas after longer travel moves
3. Use 70% extrusion ratio. You do not actually end up with the full 70% and it is probably closer to 50-60% extrusion that you actually get (this was true across both printers I've gotten it to print on, both of which were direct drive). This still results in walls of about 0.6mm. I printed at 270 C.
4. Some printers that should be able to print it can't for no apparent reason. My third 3D printer clogged on the first layer every single time I tried for no apparent reason and I cannot get it to print this filament. It is a direct drive, core X Y printer that prints LW-PLA flawlessly.
5. Leaving the enclosure open (or printing without an enclosure) is the way to go, but you need a ton of good ventilation. Creep seems to be a problem with the door closed, but this filament stinks so I left my door open to my porch all day as I printed the parts.
6. Geometry more than about 100mm tall has a good chance of layer splitting becoming a problem. It's pretty easy to fix by filling in the gaps with CA and lightly misting with water to start it hardening, but best practice would probably be to print shorter parts.
7. It is very weak. Once printed the parts feel ok, but it is much easier to accidentally poke holes in the printed skin when compared to LW-PLA. Any wings (or even horizontal tail surfaces) probably need carbon fiber spars. You could probably design something that would work with no spar, but it would be tough.

However, it has some major advantages.

1. It is LIGHT. Picking up some of the parts, it barely felt like I was holding anything. Even compared to LW-PLA, LW-ASA is notable lighter, and the additional structure required doesn't even come close to eroding that edge.
2. Incredible heat and UV resistance. If you live somewhere hot and sunny, this is very important to the longevity of your planes.
3. It sands and paints very easily. Being such a weak material, it is the easiest to sand material I have ever printed with. It doesn't seem to warp when painted either, at least with the spray paint I tried.
4. Warping is essentially 0. It's such a soft material that I think stresses don't really have much ability to build up and it results in beautiful very precise prints. So long as you follow a very specific set of rules for design and printing, it seems to print perfectly every single time, with the exception of the layer splitting issue I mentioned previously. Overall, I'd say it's actually easier to print than ABS, but much more limited in what you can print with it and do with it.
5. Stringing is less than with LW-PLA. I think the weaker material just breaks instead of forming long strings like with LW-PLA. Any stringing that does occur can very easily be knocked off, basically just be brushing your fingers over it, though light sanding cleans it up better.

I think I'll probably end up buying another spool when I get done with this one, though I doubt I'll use it very much. It's very situational, but for small light planes, it gives me some pretty crazy weight reduction and lets me build things that are comparable in weight to very light depron construction.

Very interesting!👍

 

[telnar1236]

With a bit more testing (I started printing a second copy of my 50mm F-106 since I'm essentially certain it will fly well based on the big version) it seems like the enclosure/no enclosure choice is highly dependent on ambient temperature. We're going through a bit of a cold snap right now (what we call 50 degree weather in Florida) and with just that extra couple of degrees colder indoors, prints started cracking but printing with the door closed no longer resulted in jams, so it seems to be something each person may need to decide on separately.

 

[Houndpup Rc]

(what we call 50 degree weather in Florida)

🤣🤣🤣

 

[cosmocop]

Hey, hey, here in NE Florida we don't call 50 "cold" . Joking aside, that's nice to know about ASA since I was thinking about trying it this year.

 

[telnar1236]

Hey, hey, here in NE Florida we don't call 50 "cold" . Joking aside, that's nice to know about ASA since I was thinking about trying it this year.

Normal ASA is definitely a much better material than the LW stuff - you can pretty much treat it like ABS and it works well. I think ABS prints are a bit tougher and have better layer adhesion and the walls warp less, but ASA sticks to the build plate better and has less of a tendency to warp in that direction - and of course it's UV resistant too. You definitely want an enclosure to keep the print warm with normal ASA and I print it with a 100 degree build plate and 265 degree nozzle.