Modded FT-22 Raptor

[Tonero311]

Hello again everyone. You may have seen my other thread on the Mini FT-22. Still got it and is still flying. Only needed minor repairs and 2 MG servos. Going to let my friend learn to fly fixed wing with it. It seems to crash well😋.
So to the point. I'm building the 'big' FT-22 and I want to modify it and hopefully push my skills and experience further along the way. I want to put working rudders in it. My fs-i6x transmitter has got an option to use elevons and v-tail rudder together which may fit well with this motor.
Has this been done before by chance? I couldn't find anything in relation to this through the search function.
So any thoughts, pointers or even constructive criticism is more than welcome and invited. Only got one photo of the build so far and will keep up to date with progress and results as I go along.
I honestly have to say i am so happy to have discovered Flite Test and this forum. Everyone of you are both inspiration and motivation for me to push further with this amazing hobby i have fallen in love with. Happy flying, building and modifying everybody.

 

[jfaleo1]

Two small servos (5g) and a “Y” servo cable would work better use the elevens for the tailerons (I’m assuming here) and let the rudders be rudders. But that’s just my 2 cents. Have fun👍🏻

 

[Tonero311]

Been thinking about it the last few days and came to the same conclusion(great minds think a like). Only thing I've decided to try differently is use one servo to linkage both rudders together with MG servo. Just to add a little reliability as the last few 5g digi PG servos I had failed on the smaller one. One whilst I was replacing the previous one that went up the left. Changed to 2 12g MG servos. Working great since.
Looking forward to see how the bird behaves with this mod. I'm thinking it may make the tail 'slide sideways in the air. Either way it's getting blasted high before I touch that input. Give me more reaction time incase it doesn't behave in my predicted way.
Will keep up to date with the progress over the weekend here. Got a few goodies coming in the post for this and a couple of other projects. If it doesn't work I've got about 20 or so more sheets of FB to keep trying.
Have a good weekend and thanks for the input. What effect do you think it may have @jfaleo1?

 

[jfaleo1]

Been thinking about it the last few days and came to the same conclusion(great minds think a like). Only thing I've decided to try differently is use one servo to linkage both rudders together with MG servo. Just to add a little reliability as the last few 5g digi PG servos I had failed on the smaller one. One whilst I was replacing the previous one that went up the left. Changed to 2 12g MG servos.
Have a good weekend and thanks for the input. What effect do you think it may have @jfaleo1?

Single servo is fine put it in the center and use a single rod between two control horns both on the inboard side of the rudder.
the rudders will be very authoritative so use dual rates and be careful. No dihedral will make it almost pure yaw. not enough wing sweep to get any roll coupling. should make for interesting aerobatics. Good luck.

 

[Tonero311]

So little update. Not had a lot of time to work on this bird with a few things that have come up during the last wee while.
Got the rudders cut, control horns and vertical stabilizers installed. Powerpod/firewall built and glued together. Needs a bit of sanding and refining. Servos installed.
Next to do is find suitable linkage stoppers and get the control rods, esc and motor fitted. New Rx coming this week for it. Hoping for decent weather over next few weeks to get it maidened. If not, may have to get the permanent marker out again and try to be a little artistic.
That's all for now. Hopefully have this ready very soon. Itching to see what the rudders are going to do in flight.
Happy building and flying. Tonero out😁.

 

[Tonero311]

So update time on this model. Not long back from the maiden flight. I'm quite disappointed with the power set-up I have in this one. The emax CF2822 1200kv motor just about had enough power to take off into the wind(not strong 5mphish) and climb, but as soon as tried to bank or turn with the wind it just didn't have the power to pull itself up. Wallowed and lost height until i clipped the top of trees coming in to complete a pass.
Unfortunately due to the lack of any proper oomph, I didn't get the rudders tested. Though I will not be beaten.
I need to fit a better motor and prop combination for this bird. I would like full vertical climb ability just like the mini ft-22 raptor I have got. Any help or pointers will be much appreciated. Have to get this step sorted to test the rudders, after this I want to thrust vectoring so need good power.

 

[OliverW]

So update time on this model. Not long back from the maiden flight. I'm quite disappointed with the power set-up I have in this one. The emax CF2822 1200kv motor just about had enough power to take off into the wind(not strong 5mphish) and climb, but as soon as tried to bank or turn with the wind it just didn't have the power to pull itself up. Wallowed and lost height until i clipped the top of trees coming in to complete a pass.
Unfortunately due to the lack of any proper oomph, I didn't get the rudders tested. Though I will not be beaten.
I need to fit a better motor and prop combination for this bird. I would like full vertical climb ability just like the mini ft-22 raptor I have got. Any help or pointers will be much appreciated. Have to get this step sorted to test the rudders, after this I want to thrust vectoring so need good power.

Is your prop on backwards?

 

[Tonero311]

Is your prop on backwards?

No, definitely not. Insert in and numbers facing direction of travel.

 

[kdobson83]

What prop are you using? 3s? I use this motor on a 8045 slowfly prop with 3s and have loads of power. And, if I'm remembering correctly, you can fit a 9" prop in there too.

 

[Tonero311]

What prop are you using? 3s? I use this motor on a 8045 slowfly prop with 3s and have loads of power. And, if I'm remembering correctly, you can fit a 9" prop in there too.

Prop is a 9 x 4.7sf, 30a esc, 3s 1500mah. Just didn't have the power I wanted. Looking at this motor here instead https://hobbyking.com/en_us/propdrive-v2-2830-1000kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html

 

[kdobson83]

Prop is a 9 x 4.7sf, 30a esc, 3s 1500mah. Just didn't have the power I wanted. Looking at this motor here instead https://hobbyking.com/en_us/propdrive-v2-2830-1000kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html

Yes, that motor looks to have the power for sure.
But with the setup you have it makes me wonder what's happening. You have a the same motor, bigger prop, running same voltage. Mine does vertical easily with power to spare.
Do you have a way to measure AUW? What kind of foam board did you use?

 

[Tonero311]

It was flight test waterproof foam board. AUW with battery was 420g. Will double check in the morning after work.

 

[kdobson83]

It was flight test waterproof foam board. AUW with battery was 420g. Will double check in the morning after work.

That motor will do over 800 grams of that on 3s with a 1047 slowfly.

But not all props were created equal. I had gotten some cheaper 8045 props for my wife's FT flyer not realizing they weren't slowfly. Put em on her plane and instantly regretted it. No more hovering or vertical.
But idk because you said you had slowfly on it. Even if you can't go vertical that combo your using should have plenty of power/punch. Well I hate to say it but I'm stumped. Nothing wrong with slapping a bigger motor on it tho. Good luck with it. Hopefully you get it going. I'd like to see how the rudders work out.
And just for fun here's a video of a real F22 doing some amazing aerobatics.

 

[Tonero311]

So after a bit more of a thorough inspection I noticed the wing has folded along it's length from nose to tail. So deemed this air frame done.
Next one I have just began last night will be a rebuild of this model with a few further modifications and improvements(hopefully) but I'll keep that as a surprise for next update or 2😉.
Model building goodies on the way in the post. Now back to preparations😈.
Happy flying and building everyone.

 

[Tonero311]

Another update on this build. As the last one creased along the length of the wing I went maybe a bit OTT with the carbon fibre spars. Put 2 3x2 hollow sections and 1 doubled up 1.5mm rod into it. 1 under the power pod, 1 along the widest part of the wing and the final one in front of the elevons to stiffen that area up too. In hind sight I would put another 2 in next time along the sides of the wing. They weigh next to nothing. All in with epoxy I would say I have added about 15 to 20g.
I moved both servos for the elevons behind the bow tie for the prop too and shifted them to upper surface of wing. Front 'bracket' on all the servos are sitting on top and inline with the longest spar. Done this so that the servos are pulling rather than pushing up and it's a shorter length hopefully getting rid of flex that was there before. Also move a bit of weight backwards that'll give me a bit more play with battery position and size I'm hoping. Was using a 1500mah 3s and it was as far back as i could get it and still slightly nose heavy. The rudders servo is the same position as it was. Final change here is I'm making carbon fibre control rods too. Just to see if i can😏.
Decided to use gorilla glue on this build. I have now switched to this method where ever possible. It is easier to work with, cleaner, lighter and gives more time to manuveur parts to get a really neat finish. Only places hot glue has been used so far is reinforcing the elevons and rudder hinges, they have been double tape hinge too. Want strength with this plane.
As I type this, the wing, belly pan, nose/fuselage are finished. Just the side plates and vertical stabilizer's to finish before final assembly.
The motor I ended up picking was
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-l2215j-900-brushless-motor-200w.html and spinning a 9x6 gemfan prop. Hopefully no magic smoke comes out with this set up.
That's it for now. Hopefully it has the power to stay in the air with this set up and finally get those rudders tested. Happy flying.

 

[Tonero311]

So this one is finished and waiting for maiden. AUW with 3s 1500 mah is 532g versus previous ones 439g. Could make this a little lighter with a smaller battery as the 1500 sits perfectly in the middle of the nose now. So far so good. Hopefully get some good weather for a maiden here soon.

 

[Tonero311]

So took it out to maiden about an hour ago. It flew and has the power to climb more, but I'm still not happy with it. Useful power seems to be 70-100% throttle range. Higher KV motor would help this no end I think. I have got an Emax GT2218 1180kv motor there I could squeeze in🤔, though that may be unwise for reasons that don't occur to me just yet😂. Emax is rated for 300w vs current 200w. Going to try more up deflection to see if i can get it flying a bit slower too.
The turning circle on it was very mushy too and about half a mile wide. This I'm putting down to having too little deflection on low rate throws, will find a halfway house between full throws and current low rates.
Now to evaluate the changes I made to the air frame. It crashed twice at low height on landing. Once was pretty hard with a nose over onto her back. Both landings harder than the one that creased the wing of the original. Well, she laughed it off. One slight dent in the nose from the bad one and that's it. This bird is heavy, but she is stiff and rigid as. The carbon fibre spars as well tape wrapping top and bottom of the wing give brilliant strength in one direction. The nose and side plate to wing joints were epoxy reinforced giving the strength in the opposite direction.