My first three Trainer Builds - AND Modifications, because I'm not normal!!

PoorManRC

Master member
You becha, it'll have to wait a couple weeks... (not sure if I told ya, we're doing the Dave Ramsey thing... so I have an "allowance" now for my "toys"... This past pay period went towards the replacement laser tube... remind me around the 15th and I'll get another sent out.

In the mean time (after you get these three flying) go ahead with the storch.
I'll cut you another one of those too (I think it was only 4 sheets, right?)
I never consider my first build a "Keeper" anyway, and I can always cut you another one to customize as you want.

An "Allowance" could be a good thing!!
When you're ready.... Have you heard of the Todd Merrill TT Fuse. I just downloaded the PDF file of it.
It's got a raised Wing and an actual "Cabin Area" to paint on windows....
In other words, it looks like an AIRPLANE, not a tube!
Here's the Article about it:

https://www.flitetest.com/articles/ft-tiny-trainer-fuselage-modification

A second Storch would be GREAT!! Thanks! :)
The only thing I'm really worried about messing up is the reshaped and shortened Wing....
Do you have the Legacy Plans? I'd really like to have the HStab from it as well - IF it's not a problem.

Not to introduce any bad Karma.... I hope I have a place to SEND those to, after the 15th....
All will work out though, Right?
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Wow! @PoorManRC, that adds a whole new flare!

Thanks! Me and a few friends were doing Interiors, and even Scale Engine Bays, for almost 25 years......
It didn't really catch on till just 6 or 7 years ago. We don't know what took so long - but NOW you can buy many Interior Parts at most Hobby Shops!! :cool:

We also do inner Fenderwells.... When was the last time you you looked at the Wheels on a real Truck - and saw through to the other side???
We never liked it much.

When I can actually FLY, I'm going to start thinking about Aircraft Interiors!! Starting with simple single seat Canopies, working up.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
@Hai-Lee - I want the rubber bands to break, not the Wing Supports.
I'm not going to be building like Boeing!! :eek: I hope I didn't give that impression....
I plan on having "crumple zones"!! :p

@Alexander Carter -

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It's just dawned on me that NOBODY here has ever seen my Modeling skills.....
Just a bunch of talk!!! :eek:
...... So, here's a couple of my 1:10 Scale Crawler Builds. :giggle:
Normally they don't break but rather fly off at a hundred miles an hour. The fuselage is free to run along the ground if the impact angle allows it. Hook a BBQ skewer in the grass and watch the fuselage break rather than just rip a hole. Been there Done that. For me patching a FB hole is easier than trying to make a ripped or broken fuselage straight again.

In addition it is good that the wing can impact the ground and depart the carnage EXCEPT where there are aileron servos and your wiring does not allow the plugs to let go easily. Then again you can always make new servo leads!

Any reinforcing equals more weight which in turn means more energy to dissipate upon impact.

But then remember what I have always said, listen to all the advice and then do your own thing anyway!

have fun!
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Normally they don't break but rather fly off at a hundred miles an hour. The fuselage is free to run along the ground if the impact angle allows it. Hook a BBQ skewer in the grass and watch the fuselage break rather than just rip a hole. Been there Done that. For me patching a FB hole is easier than trying to make a ripped or broken fuselage straight again.

In addition it is good that the wing can impact the ground and depart the carnage EXCEPT where there are aileron servos and your wiring does not allow the plugs to let go easily. Then again you can always make new servo leads!

Any reinforcing equals more weight which in turn means more energy to dissipate upon impact.

But then remember what I have always said, listen to all the advice and then do your own thing anyway!

have fun!

I realize that Bob!! :cool::)
I'm absorbing everything I can.... I've done it my entire life. Another of my Dad's favorite quotes - "The Person who THINKS he knows everything, is Twice as Ignorant as the Guy who knows very little!"
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
@Hai-Lee - I want the rubber bands to break, not the Wing Supports.
I'm not going to be building like Boeing!! :eek: I hope I didn't give that impression....
I plan on having "crumple zones"!! :p

@Alexander Carter -

View attachment 119576

View attachment 119577

View attachment 119578

It's just dawned on me that NOBODY here has ever seen my Modeling skills.....
Just a bunch of talk!!! :eek:
...... So, here's a couple of my 1:10 Scale Crawler Builds. :giggle:
Oh, so we're breaking the modelling skillz out now are we? OK, I got something to show ya! Well. No. Not really... Awesome builds, man!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
Normally they don't break but rather fly off at a hundred miles an hour. The fuselage is free to run along the ground if the impact angle allows it. Hook a BBQ skewer in the grass and watch the fuselage break rather than just rip a hole. Been there Done that. For me patching a FB hole is easier than trying to make a ripped or broken fuselage straight again.

In addition it is good that the wing can impact the ground and depart the carnage EXCEPT where there are aileron servos and your wiring does not allow the plugs to let go easily. Then again you can always make new servo leads!

Any reinforcing equals more weight which in turn means more energy to dissipate upon impact.

But then remember what I have always said, listen to all the advice and then do your own thing anyway!

have fun!
You continue to scare me. But thank you. That is some good food for thought. I'm going to consider it as I'm laying out the electronics and plugs and what-nots. That thought had not occurred to me. The TT for instance is very modular, but the wiring harness is not. I'll keep it mind. Thanks again.
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Oh, so we're breaking the modelling skillz out now are we? OK, I got something to show ya! Well. No. Not really... Awesome builds, man!

Thank You for noticing!! :giggle:
I'm not turning this into a Truck Thread.... It's just that nobody knows me really - YET. I'm just trying to demonstrate that although I'm new to the World of Flight - I'm not a Novice at RC, Modeling and Detailing!!!

I have experiences that I can't WAIT to parlay that into Airplanes!! ;)
There's OBVIOUS differences of course. I've gotten a LOT of valuable Advice from several experienced People here!! I appreciate all of it.

In fact, I believe that I've learned MORE in the few Weeks here, than I would have taken over a YEAR to figure out on my own!! :)
 

PoorManRC

Master member
You can have little knowledge and at the same time VAST experience. By that I mean you can be such that you do not know exactly what will work best but you can know a million ways it will not work! Ask Edison!

Have fun!

These are Experiments! Part of my Learning Process. There are so many things that I've been thinking about for a very long time.

Between the FT Videos, their Blogs and the Guys who have dispensed great Advice (YES, you included!!) - I feel like I've been through a Flight School of sorts! (y)(y)

I can't wait to start working with Wings!!!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
Thank You for noticing!! :giggle:
I'm not turning this into a Truck Thread.... It's just that nobody knows me really - YET. I'm just trying to demonstrate that although I'm new to the World of Flight - I'm not a Novice at RC, Modeling and Detailing!!!

I have experiences that I can't WAIT to parlay that into Airplanes!! ;)
There's OBVIOUS differences of course. I've gotten a LOT of valuable Advice from several experienced People here!! I appreciate all of it.

In fact, I believe that I've learned MORE in the few Weeks here, than I would have taken over a YEAR to figure out on my own!! :)
Yeah, but you yourself have mentioned that detailing adds weight. If my understanding is correct (and it's probably not) more weight means more lifting surface, means more powah! Plus it's going to move the CG. The detailing would change everything.

It can obviously be done, but not just by getting an A Pack and building a TT. You've a lot to figure out to get a detailed bird to fly. You've also got a lot of help here, from people who actually know stuff. I'm rooting for you. Keep at it, and she'll fly and fly well!
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Yeah, but you yourself have mentioned that detailing adds weight. If my understanding is correct (and it's probably not) more weight means more lifting surface, means more powah! Plus it's going to move the CG. The detailing would change everything.

It can obviously be done, but not just by getting an A Pack and building a TT. You've a lot to figure out to get a detailed bird to fly. You've also got a lot of help here, from people who actually know stuff. I'm rooting for you. Keep at it, and she'll fly and fly well!

Thank You!! Very much. More Weight is an obvious issue with Details and assorted Mods.... The first trick is to keep the details LIGHT.

Another thing I want to deal with, is Tail Moment... that on some of these designs, is a bit too short for my more mellow Flying Style (not that I'll NEVER do Aerobatics, just not all the time!)
The key point to remember is that the distance between the wing and the Tail area, also known as the "Tail Moment" has a major effect on the sensitivity of your elevator (pitch) axis.
The shorter your Tail Moment, the more sensitive your Elevator will be. Conversely, the longer your Tail Moment, the less sensitive your Elevator will be.

Too short a Tail Moment can easily produce an unflyable Model regardless of Elevator input.
One of the key aspects of design is to keep your model's extremities as light as possible without compromising strength. The lighter the Rear Fuselage, Tailplane and Fin, the shorter Nose length you require to get an acceptable CG position (typically 25% to 40% of Mean Aerodynamic Chord from the Leading Edge of the Wing).
It's all a tightrope balancing thing - the lighter the extremities - front to back or side to side, the more stable the Model becomes overall.

Most of the heavy stresses are concentrated on the central part of the Wing and fall off rapidly as you move out the Wing Tips. This is why it is a good thing to beef up the center of the Wing (where most of the Flight and Landing stresses are concentrated) and taper your structure for lightness as you move outwards.

Likewise every 1/2 ounce of unnecessary Tail Weight might require an ounce or much more of Nose Weight to compensate. Balance both ends of the Fuse. (Weight X distance of Rear Weight = Weight X distance of Nose weight) - and the Tail length is much longer than the Nose length. Keep everything in the Tail Section as light as possible! Balancing the CG at the correct spot, is more important than ANYTHING else in Aircraft Design.

That's PART of the "Maths" that I'm preparing to apply to this!! :oops::eek:
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Your above post is spot on. Designing RC model aircraft is like walking the tightrope between aerodynamics and gravity all whilst juggling the physics of the applied forces and being blindfolded to boot!

Much enjoyment to be had when you are successful!

Perhaps you could eventually make a rock crawler fly!

have fun!
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Your above post is spot on. Designing RC model aircraft is like walking the tightrope between aerodynamics and gravity all whilst juggling the physics of the applied forces and being blindfolded to boot!
Much enjoyment to be had when you are successful!

Perhaps you could eventually make a rock crawler fly!

have fun!

It's ALL going to be Fun!!! ;) I enjoy many aspects of the entire Hobby.
Getting a 15+lb. Rock Crawler to FLY!!???? That would require a LOT of Power, and even more Wing!! That gave me a chuckle....
I REALLY Need chuckles these days.

And I KNOW I'm not ready to DESIGN Aircraft!! I know barely enough for some modifications.... This is "play time" for me.
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
Thank You!! Very much. More Weight is an obvious issue with Details and assorted Mods.... The first trick is to keep the details LIGHT.

Another thing I want to deal with, is Tail Moment... that on some of these designs, is a bit too short for my more mellow Flying Style (not that I'll NEVER do Aerobatics, just not all the time!)
The key point to remember is that the distance between the wing and the Tail area, also known as the "Tail Moment" has a major effect on the sensitivity of your elevator (pitch) axis.
The shorter your Tail Moment, the more sensitive your Elevator will be. Conversely, the longer your Tail Moment, the less sensitive your Elevator will be.

Too short a Tail Moment can easily produce an unflyable Model regardless of Elevator input.
One of the key aspects of design is to keep your model's extremities as light as possible without compromising strength. The lighter the Rear Fuselage, Tailplane and Fin, the shorter Nose length you require to get an acceptable CG position (typically 25% to 40% of Mean Aerodynamic Chord from the Leading Edge of the Wing).
It's all a tightrope balancing thing - the lighter the extremities - front to back or side to side, the more stable the Model becomes overall.

Most of the heavy stresses are concentrated on the central part of the Wing and fall off rapidly as you move out the Wing Tips. This is why it is a good thing to beef up the center of the Wing (where most of the Flight and Landing stresses are concentrated) and taper your structure for lightness as you move outwards.

Likewise every 1/2 ounce of unnecessary Tail Weight might require an ounce or much more of Nose Weight to compensate. Balance both ends of the Fuse. (Weight X distance of Rear Weight = Weight X distance of Nose weight) - and the Tail length is much longer than the Nose length. Keep everything in the Tail Section as light as possible! Balancing the CG at the correct spot, is more important than ANYTHING else in Aircraft Design.

That's PART of the "Maths" that I'm preparing to apply to this!! :oops::eek:
Oh, you are definitely thinking it out, doing the math and working through the issues. You have obviously done your homework. I've never been good at math.

A thought though? If you're good at math, figure out what your detailing might weigh, where it's going to be and then just put weights there and figure the flight characteristics out. Then you can build your thing and the balancing would be pretty close to where it ought to be.
 

jaredstrees

Well-known member
Looking good, you are getting there. Nice work on the land vehicles. I will say, doing any RC will help you fly. You already understand the orientation issues of driving something away and toward yourself. All you're really doing now is adding an up and down variable. I'll also say, I have crashed some of my RC trucks way worse that some of my planes. Foam is cheap to repair, drivetrains, and plastic bodies are not.
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Looking good, you are getting there. Nice work on the land vehicles. I will say, doing any RC will help you fly. You already understand the orientation issues of driving something away and toward yourself. All you're really doing now is adding an up and down variable. I'll also say, I have crashed some of my RC trucks way worse that some of my planes. Foam is cheap to repair, drivetrains, and plastic bodies are not.

That's for absolute sure!!! I've done expensive damage to my RC Trucks.....
I will hopefully be Crashing Planes soon!!
 

PoorManRC

Master member
Got an early Christmas Present.... Wasn't expecting it, didn't ask for it.... NO return address info!!

IMG_20181207_142112.jpg


Sorry, this is as good as my crappy Tablet takes pictures....
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Oddly, 2 2208/9 Motors.... Would that be more like a A or F type Motor?? If so, my Minis are SET!
And a New 30A ESC!!!

I do NOT want to seem ungrateful...... but we really could have used the money instead.
But this should be cool though! This will wait until I can actually FLY First!! :p
 

mrjdstewart

Legendary member
nice. i have a box of stuff for you as well. i have also built probably 10 diff cubs by this point as well. let me know if you need any help.

our club winter party is the 15th. you should really try and make it. it would be a good day to meet and intro you to everyone. i can also bring a buddy box and let you fly my radian glider. everyone should start with a glider in my opinion.

let me know how i can help.

me :cool: