Naze32 Rev6 Oudated

[Topdawg]

I have not been into the Quadcopter scene as long as some. However, I like to think that I have learned quite a bit, and am still learning as I go. I have also seen a lot of changes take place throughout the time that I have been enjoying this great hobby.

For starters the motors have changed alot. My first quad was a Line Of Sight running 1804 size motors and Gemfan 5030 size props. At the time this was the norm. Now we see motors all the way up to 2206 and down to 1104 motors. Furthermore, the props can come from numerous different manufacturers and range from 3 inch all the way up to 6 inch.

Frames have come a long ways also. A large majority of people were running the zmr250. Which for the price couldn't be beat. There were a number of more expensive frames out, all in the 250 size range. But, the ZMR was probably the cheapest that could run FPV. Now there are a number of different frames ranging from 280 size down to 90 size and even some smaller than that. The styles have moved along with the times also, giving options such as folding arms to x style that transfers impact energy away from the frame and are easier to tune being a true x. Now we are even seeing arms that are easy change out, allowing one to carry extra arms already set up for a quick change out.

FPV gear has changed also. We now have five different bands to choose from in the 5.8ghz range. This allows a wider range to choose from when running multiple multirotors. Along with this is the possibility that in the near future 3ghz transmitters will start to become available. This could give better penetration with video while also keeping the antennas relatively small. The standard board cam at 600tvl was the best lowest latency camera one could buy. Now open board cameras are a thing of the past and the cameras are getting smaller and the quality is increasing.

All of this leads to the Flight Controllers. My first Multirotor I ever built that was not a bought frame was a tricopter running a KK 2.1 board with Steveis firmware on it. Still flies great. Although I don't really fly it anymore, it just hangs on my wall reminding me of how far the hobby has come. Naze32 boards were the wave of the future. Running a 32 bit processor. Baseflight was also relatively new and continued to get updates for the board and the program. I myself have never supported He Who Shall Not Be Named (read Timecop). I always purchased knockoff boards, particularly the Flip32's. While I appreciate what he has done for this hobby I think he is a deuche bag, just my opinion though. Furthermore a branch of baseflight was opened which gave better user interface and listened to the people using the boards to add more options, this is the start of Cleanflight. While Baseflight still lags behind from Cleanflight.

Now with the multirotor scene gaining popularity the boards themselves have progressed. The Naze32 and its clones are all F1 processors. Meaning they can only run so many processes and options before they get bogged down. The creation of F3 boards was the next step. Now we have options such as SPRacing, Dodo (which has gone through at least 3 revisions), PixRacer (I know this is an F4 if I am not mistaken), BeeRotor (with built in OSD), SPRacing mini, the Lumenier Lux, and even more autonomous flight controllers such as the Pixhawk.

What this all boils down to is that the Naze32, even though it is on its 6th revision, is outdated and obsolete. Even though it can still work the progression is moving faster than the Naze32 is. Which brings me to my point. I believe that if you are looking for a new board, consider another board besides the Naze32. The newer boards will stick with you as you progress in the hobby while you will probably outgrow the Naze32 quickly. Especially if you plan to lower looptimes.

I love Flitetest and what it has done for the hobby. They have given so much back to the hobby also. However, if someone has the ear of Flitetest please recommend to them to change from selling the Naze32 to a F3 controller. I believe there are better boards out there and I also believe that part of what Flitetest preaches is the growth with the items they sell. The Naze32 is just one item I don't consider to be an item that will continue someone to grow. I also see a lot of forum posts with issues with the revision 6. I cannot comment on these as I do not fly that board. It may also just be that it is a new board. I am not sure. If anyone gets to this point in this post and feels I am completely off basis please let me know. I am always up for friendly discussions as long as they are civil.

Thanks for Reading.....

Edit: I apologize for the title did not realize I mispelled Outdated. Makes me look horrible.

 

[MototechRyan]

I myself have never supported He Who Shall Not Be Named (read Timecop). I always purchased knockoff boards, particularly the Flip32's. While I appreciate what he has done for this hobby I think he is a deuche bag, just my opinion though.

LOL, like Lord Voldamort

Awesome post, makes me realize that just like Lord Voldamort...the speed at which the sport is progressing can be scary. I moved up to brushless multirotors after seeing the Versacopter debut in September of last year and buying one. Was flying and building brushed micros for about a year prior. Started my brushless journey with a Naze 32 rev 6. Since then I know own six Rev 6 naze 32's, and two rev 5's. It's the only board I have flown brushless multi's with. It's a great board IMO. Never had any problems with it. And the price makes it very reasonable. Scary because the Rev 6 debuted around the same time last year as the Versacopter(about 6 months ago) and now it's definitely outdated IMO.

Lately I have been wanting to try a different board to see what I'm missing with the F3 boards. I ordered a Lumineer Lux in December of last year and am one of the peeps still waiting for batch two to ship from getfpv.com. And with the Kiss FC now available and the pros like FGA, Mr MuSteelestash, and Skitzo rocking it and raving about it...I definitely want to try one out.

Thus I'm really glad you made this post and also would like to hear the opinions of others too. I'm very interested in the SPracing mini. Gonna go subscribe to this post and make some popcorn

 

[Craftydan]

Old? Sure.

Cutting edge? No.

Outdated? Not so much.

I think the appropriate term for the maturity is "state of the art". That's marketing double speak for "it's what most everybody uses and is happy with, but we want you to feel like it's just as good as the newest hotness" . . . and such it is.

It's a very popular and currently is a heavily used board. While it does lack features of some of the F3 (and F4) boards, those features aren't widely used. Don't get me wrong, they are used, but not widely . . . and other than the shorter loop-times in Luxfloat (yes, that is valuable, so long as your ESCs can take advantage of it), none of the missing features affect the actual flight.

An edge in a race? Perhaps, but only if you have the skill to take advantage of it . . . but most of us weren't invited to Dubai

 

[mpbiv]

I think CraftyDan nailed it on the head.

It's not on the bleeding edge of performance, but it is sufficient enough that it is not outdated. And honestly I usually recommend the Naze32 to newbies because there is so much documentation and info on the web, it really makes it easy for them to get started.

Now don't get me wrong, I've pretty much moved onto F3 boards myself, but each of the newer boards has it's quirks too and with the rapid development of new firmwares and features, you really need to be on your toes to keep up with what is changing and to understand what all the new stuff does. In fact when it comes to firmware, I am almost always a revision or two behind, because if my quad is flying relatively well I won't update a flight controller for a while. Still running older versions of Betaflight on both my Alien/Tornado F3 builds.

 

[jhitesma]

I still find the assumption that F4 is an advancement over F3 somewhat interesting. The are things F4's are better at...but for flight controllers F3's have some distinct advantages in their serial setup. The F3 is also a newer chip than the F4 despite the nomenclature.

The F4 does have a higher clock rate and more memory, but IMHO that's of lower importance for our uses. The details of why are more complex than I have time to get into right this moment. But basically chasing ever lower looptimes is a lot like chasing land speed records. The cost starts going up exponentially while the benefits drop exponentially. There are other places devs can and are spending time that are more likely to give bigger benefits. And memory on the F3 isn't really an issue - for more advanced autonomous stuff it is nice but most people right now seem interested in racing and all out acro performance and for that memory really is NOT an issue.

The F1 isn't the latest and greatest...but there are TONS of them out there and they can still perform better than 95% of people can take advantage of with their flying. If you want the multi to fly itself the F1 is a terrible choice, and I'm really no fan of the Naze for a number of reasons...but it's still a very serviceable board for most people.

 

[Richmond2000]

my take the NAZE is good enough and better in teh fact that the support is excellent from the Community and that it is NOW matured to the point of high reliability

and by the time MOST average pilots reach the point that the F3/4 controllers actually offer an advantage the top pilots most likely will have moved on to something even better as the OP pointed out the rate of change is way beyond the rate of improvement the average hobbyist pilot will advance assuming they EVER reach a point to "NEED" the improvement

 

[Topdawg]

I think the Largest advantage of the F3 boards are two fold. The third UART allows one to run Sbus which is the reciever of choice right now. A lot of people still say there is no difference between, but I personally can vouch that I flew CPPM for a while. Made the switch as it was an accident originally bought the X4R-SB w/ PPM from aloft. Ended up using the Sbus and actually noticed a difference. I was pleasantly surprised. It just felt more responsive. If you want to run Sbus, than you have two options with an F1 board. Either run no OSD, or run telemetry. With the F3 you have the option of both. Some Flight Controllers now have UART1 seperated from the USB. The Rev6 has neither.

Now lets be honest. How many of you have a cell phone that was purchased within the last year? I will admit it. Why? I am sure our old phones still made calls. So why get a new phone? Was it because the other was outdated? Or maybe the new one had better features. It is the same case with the FC boards. Sure our old phones still worked yet, we decided to upgrade for those features that the other old phone did not have. Same scenario would anyone here buy an Iphone 5 that just came out with an update making it the Iphone 5S+ ?? No you move one, the Iphone5 is outdated. Same with the Naze32 Rev 6. Why buy a new Rev 6 when their are boards out their that are better with more features? Sure, it still works. Sure its cheap. But if you spend just a little extra you get so much more that will continue with you as you grow. Will you be able to notice. Maybe, for some people, No for some people, Yes for some people.

Look at it another way. The Naze Rev6 from the Flitetest store is $29 dollars. The Lumenier Lux is $40. A difference of $11 dollars. For $11 dollars isn't it worth it to spend that little extra to get a board that I could argue would still be getting updates 6 months from now. Or would you rather save the $11 dollars at get a board that is already behind on the power curve, or as crafty Dan put it not "State of the Art." I for one know where the money would go. In the grand scheme of multirotors $11 dollars is not much.

How about this. The SPRacing F3 boards from Readytoflyquads.com is $24 dollars. Even less than the Rev 6. And there is still a ton of support out there for that one. What about the Dodo board. Official one is $50 and it has built in BEC so technically if you match equipment you would not even have to run a separate 5V power supply or power distribution board.

Here is another example. I originally forgot the Kiss FC (Thanks for reminding me Ryan. If flyduino ever gets it back in stock it runs $40 bucks. Once again back to the $11 dollars. And that is a board pros use. Their argument is that it hits the sweet spot with out having to worry about updates every week, as mpbiv noted. And I agree with him, I too am running a few revisions of Betaflight behind. It just breaks it down this way. We spend, arguably between 250 to 500 dollars on a quadcopter. If you are on the low end at 250, $11 dollars still is not breaking the bank.

I am not saying that the Rev 6 is not functional. I am just saying that it is outdated just like our old cell phones. Now if an F3 chip were to be dropped into a Naze32 I would agree fully with everyone here that the Naze32 is the ticket. But the F1 processeor just puts it in a class behind everyone else. I guess we shall see what a Rev 7 would bring.

 

[Topdawg]

Also forgot to mention, I love writing, and am currently working towards my History degree in College. I have two kids and went back to school later in life. So if I do not reply quickly to this thread, I hope you guys understand. Only have so much time in the day. Thanks all again for participating in this thread. Getting some good discussion here.

 

[TexasTeacher]

Also forgot to mention, I love writing, and am currently working towards my History degree in College. I have two kids and went back to school later in life. So if I do not reply quickly to this thread, I hope you guys understand. Only have so much time in the day. Thanks all again for participating in this thread. Getting some good discussion here.

Been there man. I found college easier this time around even with the kids and a full time job.

 

[Craftydan]

Sooooo . . . . your definition of "outdated" involves the iPhone 6 marketing? We need it because it's new and not the 5+? I'm sorry, I'd rather not get my flying caught up in marketing hype. Plain and simple, like most people gain little non-social-standing or emotional advantage with upgrading their iPhone, most run-of-the-mill pilots will see no non-social-standing or emotional advantage for the added cost of an F3 board.

Which brings us to your cost . . . so you pick one of the most expensive Naze32 and compare among the cheapest F3? Like to cherry-pick, do we? The cheapest Naze clone from recent searches rolls in at ~$14 (might be cheaper -- "recent" was a couple of months ago), so your favored F3 is roughly 3 times the cost . . . well it is an F3 So It's not cripplingly expensive anymore . . . so what? How much I spend doesn't make the board automatically better suited to my needs.

As far as SBUS . . . meh. I've flown PWM, PPM and currently Spektrum Sat all the time and perfectly happy with it's performance. Anecdotal evidence is Anecdotal. I do, however, find the numerical differences generally quoted as marginal to human response time and the calculations are frequently dubious -- more often than not being calculated by people who don't understand the gear and formal concepts of latency.

So the Naze boards have only 2 hardware UARTS, but other than the RX input, UARTS don't affect flight. They're soft features like OSD, telemetry or *ugh* GPS. I won't say they're worthless, but in many cases they become an over-complication of the build. In either case, it does have two -- I've got no problem running sat + OSD . . . but the crying shame of it all, the F1 Chip HAS a third UART . . . and the pins are running LEDs on the Naze32 clones. The rev6 board also still needs an inverter for SBUS . . . but that's not a feature of the F3 chip, but the board itself. The lowly CC3D can support it directly, so in those cases, I'd refer you to your earlier comments about he who must not be named

So it's back to "the board the pros use" . . . because I really need to buy the NASCAR racer to commute to work . . .

Pros **MUST** live on the bleeding edge. I don't fault them for that, nor do I follow them blindly down each rabbit hole. If they don't stay on that edge they won't stay pros. If I don't, I still have fun and build piloting skill. If someone wants to go professional, they will need to get that level of gear . . . eventually . . . but I assure you, I know of no pro still flying the quad they cut their teeth on. I also know of no pro who doesn't regularly pay to completely update their gear, so your "continue as you grow" point is moot -- I'f you're taking that path, it's all going to get replaced soon enough as you follow the bleeding edge. When they do update, most won't harvest the old parts, but keep/sell the working airframe.

If you're not going to that level or not yet anywhere near there (man, I'm gonna date myself with this one), It's like the kids buying Air-Jordans when they first came out, thinking they'd hit the courts and play like him. I get hero worship, but without the practice and building skill, wanting to "be like Mike" only enough to buy the gear won't make ANYONE like Mike. The kids were better off in the cheap payless knockoffs and beating their opponents with practice, not social status symbols.

I've got no issue with someone trying an F3 board, but know why.

Telemetry+SBUS+OSD . . . If that's what you feel you need, then fine. If you don't have a specific reason, you're not actually getting anything better. IMO, that's "state of the art" not "outdated and obsolete" . . . unless you actually play like Mike, but only then you have the skill to make those shoes work different than the payless knockoffs.

 

[Topdawg]

Sooooo . . . . your definition of "outdated" involves the iPhone 6 marketing? We need it because it's new and not the 5+? I'm sorry, I'd rather not get my flying caught up in marketing hype. Plain and simple, like most people gain little non-social-standing or emotional advantage with upgrading their iPhone, most run-of-the-mill pilots will see no non-social-standing or emotional advantage for the added cost of an F3 board.

Which brings us to your cost . . . so you pick one of the most expensive Naze32 and compare among the cheapest F3? Like to cherry-pick, do we? The cheapest Naze clone from recent searches rolls in at ~$14 (might be cheaper -- "recent" was a couple of months ago), so your favored F3 is roughly 3 times the cost . . . well it is an F3 So It's not cripplingly expensive anymore . . . so what? How much I spend doesn't make the board automatically better suited to my needs.

As far as SBUS . . . meh. I've flown PWM, PPM and currently Spektrum Sat all the time and perfectly happy with it's performance. Anecdotal evidence is Anecdotal. I do, however, find the numerical differences generally quoted as marginal to human response time and the calculations are frequently dubious -- more often than not being calculated by people who don't understand the gear and formal concepts of latency.

So the Naze boards have only 2 hardware UARTS, but other than the RX input, UARTS don't affect flight. They're soft features like OSD, telemetry or *ugh* GPS. I won't say they're worthless, but in many cases they become an over-complication of the build. In either case, it does have two -- I've got no problem running sat + OSD . . . but the crying shame of it all, the F1 Chip HAS a third UART . . . and the pins are running LEDs on the Naze32 clones. The rev6 board also still needs an inverter for SBUS . . . but that's not a feature of the F3 chip, but the board itself. The lowly CC3D can support it directly, so in those cases, I'd refer you to your earlier comments about he who must not be named

So it's back to "the board the pros use" . . . because I really need to buy the NASCAR racer to commute to work . . .

Pros **MUST** live on the bleeding edge. I don't fault them for that, nor do I follow them blindly down each rabbit hole. If they don't stay on that edge they won't stay pros. If I don't, I still have fun and build piloting skill. If someone wants to go professional, they will need to get that level of gear . . . eventually . . . but I assure you, I know of no pro still flying the quad they cut their teeth on. I also know of no pro who doesn't regularly pay to completely update their gear, so your "continue as you grow" point is moot -- I'f you're taking that path, it's all going to get replaced soon enough as you follow the bleeding edge. When they do update, most won't harvest the old parts, but keep/sell the working airframe.

If you're not going to that level or not yet anywhere near there (man, I'm gonna date myself with this one), It's like the kids buying Air-Jordans when they first came out, thinking they'd hit the courts and play like him. I get hero worship, but without the practice and building skill, wanting to "be like Mike" only enough to buy the gear won't make ANYONE like Mike. The kids were better off in the cheap payless knockoffs and beating their opponents with practice, not social status symbols.

I've got no issue with someone trying an F3 board, but know why.

Telemetry+SBUS+OSD . . . If that's what you feel you need, then fine. If you don't have a specific reason, you're not actually getting anything better. IMO, that's "state of the art" not "outdated and obsolete" . . . unless you actually play like Mike, but only then you have the skill to make those shoes work different than the payless knockoffs.

Wow Dan. I am sorry if I offended you somehow. This seems like a personal attack on an opinion. Numerous times you mention IMHO. This is my opinion. Get over yourself. I was not mentioning the Iphone because of marketing. Unless I am mistaken? I mentioned it because I see hundreds of people use them. I could have just as easily have said the Samsung Galaxy S5 and the S6. If you would like I can change that.

You also state I like to cherry pick. Sorry once again for offending you. But since you brought it up lets look at clones. The Flip32 just came out with an F3 board. $23 dollars. Not even the original $11 dollars I mentioned above. $9 dollars people for something that I feel is better than an outdated Revision 6 Naze32.

I understand you have your opinion. I am sure you are smarter than me on this Dan. But this is an opinion piece. Please if you are going to attack my opinion please bow out now. We don't need personal attacks here. I maid a comment about the board the pros use. So did another poster. Yet you try and throw out that we all need NASCAR cars now? Wow Dan. I am sorry if you feel this way.

Furthermore, An extra UART does not complicate a build yet it makes it sooooo much easier. I have seen numerous times including myself have to remove cables from OSD in order to hook up to Cleanflight.

I really do apologize for offending you Dan with m opinion.
For everyone else, I apologize also, as now I am probably going to stop posting anything for anyone. This is why I have such a low post count as I have never liked being criticized for giving opinions. I try to help where I can. So now instead of jumping on here every so often I guess I will go back to focusing strictly on my Thesis paper, and my kids and actually flying. If I see anyone on ever though I wish them all the best. Thank you again everyone for the comments and
Fly Happy
Thomas

 

[Craftydan]

Thomas,

There wasn't a single personal attack in there. Personal attacks are off limts here, but it's always open season on ideas. If you took any of those personally, look again -- I've got no interest in hurting you, but your ideas... Can they stand on their own?

You haven't offended me, nor have I tried to offend you. My tone may be a bit rough, but that doesn't constitute an attack or asign blame to you for any hurt feelings. I just don't agree with you on this, and you haven't yet said anything to change that.

If your ideas have the strength to stand scrutiny, then let them stand up!

 

[MototechRyan]

Here's an interesting video by the very knowledgeable Joshua Bardwell about his take on which cleanflight controller is the best.
https://youtu.be/SJa_LgbwwMk

One point I found very interesting was the mpu noise inherent with 6500's that can make tuning harder. I hate to say it, but after watching Josh's video the thing I'm most excited about with the Lux board is the clean low profile solder pad/connector layout.

 

[Craftydan]

In that, I agree. I'm not a fan of the Rev6's switch to the 6050 -- no extra features, with fewer com options -- but Timecop wanted something to break Cleanflight's compatibility . . . at least for a few months

So far as I can tell, none of the Naze32 clones sport a 6500 . . . or are missing the diode bridge between the RX power bus and the USB power bus. On these two points, the official rev6 board was inferior to it's predecessors and clones. At least Rev 6A put the diode bridge back in.