New Bloody Baron - Flight Issues

[Mode 1]

Hi All,

We built 2 Bloody Barons yesterday and they are a real handful to fly. Unlike our Bloody Wonders which track like they are on a rail and have no bad tendencies, these are far less predictable. I know these planes have a great reputation for being great flyers so I'm going to assume something's just not right with our setup. We built these for this summers combat schedule which begins on Wednesday so I've got a few days to figure this out. My son's seems to fly a bit better than mine yet the setup is exactly the same.

Stock Power Pack C's in both.
No Rudder
Scratch built using the plans posted at the FT Store.
10x4.7 prop
30 amp esc
2200 mah 3s
Maiden flights we done at low rates

1. Extreme climb under power (both)
2. Mine wants to roll hard left under power
3. Unpredictable in general. When flying mine I felt as if any turn would lead to it snap rolling over completely.
4. The pusrods on my son's (aileron) have a tendency to bend at higher rates. Low rates the bending doesn't happen or happens to a lesser degree.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kdobson83]

Hi All,

We built 2 Bloody Barons yesterday and they are a real handful to fly. Unlike our Bloody Wonders which track like they are on a rail and have no bad tendencies, these are far less predictable. I know these planes have a great reputation for being great flyers so I'm going to assume something's just not right with our setup. We built these for this summers combat schedule which begins on Wednesday so I've got a few days to figure this out. My son's seems to fly a bit better than mine yet the setup is exactly the same.

Stock Power Pack C's in both.
No Rudder
Scratch built using the plans posted at the FT Store.
10x4.7 prop
30 amp esc
2200 mah 3s
Maiden flights we done at low rates

1. Extreme climb under power (both)
2. Mine wants to roll hard left under power
3. Unpredictable in general. When flying mine I felt as if any turn would lead to it snap rolling over completely.
4. The pusrods on my son's (aileron) have a tendency to bend at higher rates. Low rates the bending doesn't happen or happens to a lesser degree.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

View attachment 131616

Are they wanting to climb without pulling up? Usually it the plane wants to climb without stick input it's tail heavy. Double check your balance.
As far as it pulling left, it could be a torque roll issues. A 10" prop on that short of a wing span could produce some serious torque causing it to pull left in a ccw prop when applying throttle.
My suggestion, turn rates down a tad more, make sure you've got 25-30% expo dialed in, and triple check your balance.
If they still want to pull left when throttle is applied try using a smaller prop, like a 9x5 or even a 8x5.
I personally don't own a bloody baron but these are the steps I would take.

 

[Mode 1]

Are they wanting to climb without pulling up? Usually it the plane wants to climb without stick input it's tail heavy. Double check your balance.
As far as it pulling left, it could be a torque roll issues. A 10" prop on that short of a wing span could produce some serious torque causing it to pull left in a ccw prop when applying throttle.
My suggestion, turn rates down a tad more, make sure you've got 25-30% expo dialed in, and triple check your balance.
If they still want to pull left when throttle is applied try using a smaller prop, like a 9x5 or even a 8x5.
I personally don't own a bloody baron but these are the steps I would take.

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, they climb with no stick input.

Your prop thoughts never crossed my mind which doesn't surprise me as my "RC plane knowledge" is way behind my ability to use a glue gun or actually fly Unfortunately it looks like an all day rain event here so flying may not happen today.

 

[kdobson83]

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, they climb with no stick input.

Your prop thoughts never crossed my mind which doesn't surprise me as my "RC plane knowledge" is way behind my ability to use a glue gun or actually fly Unfortunately it looks like an all day rain event here so flying may not happen today.

Yeah, its supposed to be windy and thunderstormy here in Louisville all day too...
Triple check your balance for sure, make it a tad nose heavy first if your unsure. If you use a smaller battery like a 1300 3s pushed all the way forward to lighten it up a tad you should be able to size down the prop to see if it indeed was torque roll issues pulling you left.

 

[DamoRC]

I've built 4 of these for friends over the last couple of weeks for an upcoming airshow combat demo. Three maidened last weekend and flew well. Some pointers for your builds.

As was said earlier, the 10 inch prop, C-pack, and 2200mAh combo is a lot of weight and power for this bird. The baron can handle this setup but in my experience, the 2200mAh always makes her a bit of a handful . I would pull back to a 9x6 or 9x4.7 prop and, if you can, come down to a 1300 mAh or 1600 mAh 3S, at least until you get her flying well.

From the pics its hard to tell if you have any downthrust but you don't seem to have any right thrust built in. Pointing the motor a few degrees down and a few degrees right will help with the climb and torque tendencies. Related to this point, I see you have installed the motors with the motor mount in a "+" configuration on the firewall. I would suggest re-mounting the motor with the motor mount in an "X" configuration. With the "X" setup, all you have to do is place a washer behind the top right(as you look from the front) arm of the "X" to get both down and right thrust angle on the motor. If you don't wish to re-mount, then place washers behind both the top and right (as you look from the front) arms of the "+" to get a better thrust angle.

Best of luck!

 

[Wildthing]

Change the angle of the motor mount, 4 degrees down and about 4 degrees right. I love the Baron over the Wonder and almost everyone at the club has the Baron .

 

[Wildthing]

I've built 4 of these for friends over the last couple of weeks for an upcoming airshow combat demo. Three maidened last weekend and flew well. Some pointers for your builds.

As was said earlier, the 10 inch prop, C-pack, and 2200mAh combo is a lot of weight and power for this bird. The baron can handle this setup but in my experience, the 2200mAh always makes her a bit of a handful . I would pull back to a 9x6 or 9x4.7 prop and, if you can, come down to a 1300 mAh or 1600 mAh 3S, at least until you get her flying well.

From the pics its hard to tell if you have any downthrust but you don't seem to have any right thrust built in. Pointing the motor a few degrees down and a few degrees right will help with the climb and torque tendencies. Related to this point, I see you have installed the motors with the motor mount in a "+" configuration on the firewall. I would suggest re-mounting the motor with the motor mount in an "X" configuration. With the "X" setup, all you have to do is place a washer behind the top right(as you look from the front) arm of the "X" to get both down and right thrust angle on the motor. If you don't wish to re-mount, then place washers behind both the top and right (as you look from the front) arms of the "+" to get a better thrust angle.

Best of luck!

I run the Turnigy 2826 1400kv motor, 40A esc, 2200 3S battery and a APC 10X5 electric prop. handles like a dream

 

[Mode 1]

Thanks again guys. This is Very interesting as all I believe all the guys i've spoken to that fly combat in our clubs are flying the 2200. I need to find a way to make these work as I bought 6 of them last week I've got some 9x6 props that I'll try. We may get a break in the weather this evening...maybe.

 

[Mode 1]

I've built 4 of these for friends over the last couple of weeks for an upcoming airshow combat demo. Three maidened last weekend and flew well. Some pointers for your builds.

As was said earlier, the 10 inch prop, C-pack, and 2200mAh combo is a lot of weight and power for this bird. The baron can handle this setup but in my experience, the 2200mAh always makes her a bit of a handful . I would pull back to a 9x6 or 9x4.7 prop and, if you can, come down to a 1300 mAh or 1600 mAh 3S, at least until you get her flying well.

From the pics its hard to tell if you have any downthrust but you don't seem to have any right thrust built in. Pointing the motor a few degrees down and a few degrees right will help with the climb and torque tendencies. Related to this point, I see you have installed the motors with the motor mount in a "+" configuration on the firewall. I would suggest re-mounting the motor with the motor mount in an "X" configuration. With the "X" setup, all you have to do is place a washer behind the top right(as you look from the front) arm of the "X" to get both down and right thrust angle on the motor. If you don't wish to re-mount, then place washers behind both the top and right (as you look from the front) arms of the "+" to get a better thrust angle.

Best of luck!

Question. So i'm going to remount my motor mount with a washer between the firewall and the mount? I'd love to see a picture if anyone has one configured this way.

 

[Wildthing]

Question. So i'm going to remount my motor mount with a washer between the firewall and the mount? I'd love to see a picture if anyone has one configured this way.

Washers are a pain to get into place, just loosen off the screws and use anything to shim it like a tapered toothpick or the end of a small zip tie but wedge it in a bit then tighten the screws, again shim it so it is pointing down and to the right. Test it and shim or push the wedges in farther until the zoom and torque roll are gone.

 

[Mode 1]

Washers are a pain to get into place, just loosen off the screws and use anything to shim it like a tapered toothpick or the end of a small zip tie but wedge it in a bit then tighten the screws, again shim it so it is pointing down and to the right. Test it and shim or push the wedges in farther until the zoom and torque roll are gone.

Thanks, WIld!

 

[mrjdstewart]

one thing everyone forgets about is lateral balance. everyone is so stuck on CG they never think to check the left vs right balance. if the plane is rolling hard one direction that should be checked. i also agree that a 10" prop is too big. I swing a 9x4.5 apc with a c-pack, 30 A esc, and a 3s-2200.

good luck,

me

 

[Bricks]

With my Bloody Baron there is no self leveling once put into a bank I have to actually fly it out. Another thing is with the 2200 battery you have to keep the speed up or it will tip stall very easily it will not fly slow very well.

 

[Mode 1]

We were able to sneak out on Sunday night after the weather cleared. Went with the 9x6 and gave a little down and right to the motor mount as you guys suggested.. it still flew awful.. I told my son "It's unflyable." I then moved the battery even more forward so it was about a 1/2 inch behind the firewall and took the servo arm off a made sure my throws were good starting at the servo. I then launched it and it flew noticeably better. A few quick trim adjustments and I was actually pretty happy with the performance. Landed, changed the battery, launched her again and was once again happy with how she flew until I watched the battery dangle and then fall off the bottom of the plane. She semi floated to a rather harmless impact .. a few lines of hot glue and she's all fixed up. I've never had a battery fall off a plane before. it was a bit unexpected. Obviously, I don't want that to happen again so:

1. How are guys securing batteries to these planes for combat to keep them from falling off? I run velcro the almost the length of the battery and the bottom of the power pod.

2. How are you guys attaching the combat streamers to your fuse? I've heard things like BBQ skewers or attaching a fishing swivel with a clasp .. or maybe it's a combo of skewer/swivel. Any clarification on that would be appreciated. Combat begins tomorrow night.

Thanks.

 

[Wildthing]

We were able to sneak out on Sunday night after the weather cleared. Went with the 9x6 and gave a little down and right to the motor mount as you guys suggested.. it still flew awful.. I told my son "It's unflyable." I then moved the battery even more forward so it was about a 1/2 inch behind the firewall and took the servo arm off a made sure my throws were good starting at the servo. I then launched it and it flew noticeably better. A few quick trim adjustments and I was actually pretty happy with the performance. Landed, changed the battery, launched her again and was once again happy with how she flew until I watched the battery dangle and then fall off the bottom of the plane. She semi floated to a rather harmless impact .. a few lines of hot glue and she's all fixed up. I've never had a battery fall off a plane before. it was a bit unexpected. Obviously, I don't want that to happen again so:

1. How are guys securing batteries to these planes for combat to keep them from falling off? I run velcro the almost the length of the battery and the bottom of the power pod.

2. How are you guys attaching the combat streamers to your fuse? I've heard things like BBQ skewers or attaching a fishing swivel with a clasp .. or maybe it's a combo of skewer/swivel. Any clarification on that would be appreciated. Combat begins tomorrow night.

Thanks.

My 2200 3S battery is very close to the nose and the esc and rx are about in the middle. If you were that tail heavy it would explain why it flew horrible.

BBQ skewer right under the battery along with the velcro

For the streamer I have used the skewer but I also put a piece of foam across the bottom side of the fuse and use a piece of duct tape.

 

[Usafa93]

1. How are guys securing batteries to these planes for combat to keep them from falling off? I run velcro the almost the length of the battery and the bottom of the power pod.

I cheat a little. In addition to velcro along the bottom of the fuse and top of the battery, I also use a velcro cable tie. Put 2 slits about 1.5" behind the firewall and use a flat screwdriver to push the cable tie through. Secure your battery with the tie as well as the velcro and you should be good to go. Have fun!!

 

[Mode 1]

Thanks Guys!